Primetime Live Family secrets. Transsexual

[aspawloski4th]

Tonight on ABC network’s Primetime Live Family Secrets, was a Friend of mine who had transitioned from male to female, and all the family dynamics associated with it. From an allergic reaction to a beasting triggering the Chromosome abnormality triggering the body to stop making testosterone to have it affects the 2 children in question. This story spans life from early childhood to the present day. The story shows that this was not some flippant decision. without struggle. It show that this matter is no less harsh on the person that it is happening to than family and friends. It shows that this condition has such deep roots that the science and psychological communites have not made it to the end of those roots of cause as of yet, while most won’t even scratch into the surface even. Yes it is traumatic for the person with the condition. That friend on tv and I had a friend who was male to female transsexual take her own life a year ago Saturday, so this isn’t something to treat lightly or flippantly. While understanding is being gained on this subject, theres a big contingent of the populace that can’t even go the little distance of agreeing to disagree. We don’t lock up autistic people anymore, so I don’t think transsexualism ought be swept under the rug either… Iv’e seen the proof with my own eyes that when you let one be one’s self they function tons better, in juyst about every way. But some think transition is awefull even when thats true. In the coming few years there are going to be policy decisions made in various places in our society that will affect whether or not transsexuals will be able to get the proper treatment for their condition. One side wants to do What Harry Benjamin prescribed years ago, and the other side see living in the sex one was asigned at birth as something even byond being some sort of virtue. If the latter wins Theres going to be problems one could never imagine like an increase in scuicides to more people being locked up in the perverbial figuretive white rubber room. I’m doing what I can to see that never happens, in a small way because that maybe me someday. The populist what is good for one is good for all attitude has to end, and let people be them selves even if it doesn’t seem " normal". This is not some liberal agenda, I’m very right to life, pro constitution, one of the most ardent defenders of the doctrine of Purgatory you might ever find. I don’t beleive thre is global warming. But I blieve in letting people be who they are even when it’s anti conformist.

 

[Eucharisted]

This is not some liberal agenda, I’m very right to life, pro constitution, one of the most ardent defenders of the doctrine of Purgatory you might ever find. I don’t beleive thre is global warming. But I blieve in letting people be who they are even when it’s anti conformist.

Don’t mix up politics and faith.

And never forget the Church’s constant teaching: Transexuality, like homosexuality, is not a sin, but the act of changing your sex, just like the act of homosexual love, is indeed a sin. Whether venial or mortal, it is a sin and every sin must be despised and avoided; every soul who is suffering deserves our mercy, especially those who suffer spiritually, and so we must be compassionate to transexual and homosexual people, especially by praying for them; and one must not consider tolerance to be a virtue: understanding is a virtue and a gift of God, but tolerance is not, so we must be understanding, not tolerant.

 

[Dale_M]

And never forget the Church’s constant teaching: Transexuality, like homosexuality, is not a sin, but the act of changing your sex, just like the act of homosexual love, is indeed a sin.

I’m not sure the phrase “constant teaching” is an accurate description. Although many Catholics interpret the prohibition against mutilation to include transsexual surgery, there doesn’t seem to be any explicit teaching about transsexualism. Its a subject we’ve discussed over and over here. If you are aware of a Church document which prohibits transsexual surgery, could you please link to it?

I saw the show last night. I thought it pretty well-balanced, with repeated looks at how Chloe Prince’s change has brought difficulty into the lives of those she loves.

 

[Dale_M]

BTW, for those who missed the show last night, ABC News has an article online which summarizes much of what was presented in the show.
abcnews.go.com/Primetime/MindMoodNews/Story?id=8126749&page=1

 

[aspawloski4th]

I’m not sure the phrase “constant teaching” is an accurate description. Although many Catholics interpret the prohibition against mutilation to include transsexual surgery, there doesn’t seem to be any explicit teaching about transsexualism. Its a subject we’ve discussed over and over here. If you are aware of a Church document which prohibits transsexual surgery, could you please link to it?

I saw the show last night. I thought it pretty well-balanced, with repeated looks at how Chloe Prince’s change has brought difficulty into the lives of those she loves.

Or for that matter the " secret document " from the Vatican that ok’s it.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Don’t mix up politics and faith.

And never forget the Church’s constant teaching: Transexuality, like homosexuality, is not a sin, but the act of changing your sex, just like the act of homosexual love, is indeed a sin. Whether venial or mortal, it is a sin and every sin must be despised and avoided; every soul who is suffering deserves our mercy, especially those who suffer spiritually, and so we must be compassionate to transexual and homosexual people, especially by praying for them; and one must not consider tolerance to be a virtue: understanding is a virtue and a gift of God, but tolerance is not, so we must be understanding, not tolerant.

I was not mixing politics and faith. I was giving examples in both politics and faith where I am not liberal, in order to illistrate how I am not a part of a liberal agenda whether it be in politics, faith, or other societal realm. I myself should be of some proof that there is something genuine to the issue rather than it being just another part of the liberal agenda that alarms many,

 

[Dale_M]

It appears that the show can watched via Hulu, although it requires installing an ABC plug-in.
hulu.com/search?query=abc+primetime

The name of the episode is “The Road After Gender Transition.”

 

[Zoe_Brain]

And never forget the Church’s constant teaching: Transexuality… is not a sin, but the act of changing your sex… is indeed a sin.

Really? Where does it say that, in those words? And why bring up homosexuality as a comparison, why not, say, divorce? Where separation in a failed marriage is not sinful, but re-marriage afterwards is?

For example, there’s this video.

A woman who is not 46xy like most men, nor 46xx like most women, but a mosaic of 46xy and 47xxy. And who got stung by a bee, had a very severe allergic reaction, and ended up with her hormone system being reset from abnormally male to abnormally female.

So she changed, partially.

Neurologically, she was always female, with a typically female sense of smell, and hearing, and emotional response, and BSTc layer in the hypothalamus and, well, as feminine a brain as her chest was masculine. Perhaps more so. An MRI scan of her head would have shown her to be female. As would an X-ray of her pelvis, 47xxy people tend to have female-pattern hips. Which is fortunate, as some are rather more somatically female than others, and have given birth.

She completed the partial, natural, God-given change by hormones and surgery. As did I, with mine, though I have only 46xy cells, and my natural change was more complete in some ways, less in others, and far more rapid. I still went to the same surgeon she did, all the way to Thailand, as he is the best in the world for dealing with such cases of Intersex - bodies neither wholly male nor wholly female. Turning an ambiguous mess into something that looks normal, and functions normally. Before the natural change, I’d been diagnosed as a mildly intersexed male. After the natural change, and before treatment commenced, I was re-diagnosed as a severely intersexed female.

So - how exactly did she sin? By getting stung by a bee? How did I sin for that matter - by being born with a peculiar set of mutations? What about those boys with 5alpha-reductase-3 deficiency, who change from looking like girls at birth to looking like boys after puberty? Do they sin by not seeking medical treatment to reverse the natural change - though some do, the ones who are neurologically female, and to whom the change is a nightmare?

Please show me the Church’s constant teaching on this. Because charging something as being a sin, and being so certain of it, when it isn’t, well, that is a grave error. Uncharitable too.

If one is not to be charitable, if one is to be chiding out of love, and concern, and compassion, it behooves one to be certain that the behavior being condemned is in fact sinful. Otherwise at best, it’s negligence, at worst, hypocrisy and cruelty.

But if it is negligence, and an error - given the general ignorance of such matters, I don’t think it’s a particularly egregious fault, and should be very easy indeed to forgive. I wish all my faults were as trivial.

Zoe

 

[Drawmack]

Don’t mix up politics and faith.

And never forget the Church’s constant teaching: Transexuality, like homosexuality, is not a sin, but the act of changing your sex, just like the act of homosexual love, is indeed a sin. Whether venial or mortal, it is a sin and every sin must be despised and avoided; every soul who is suffering deserves our mercy, especially those who suffer spiritually, and so we must be compassionate to transexual and homosexual people, especially by praying for them; and one must not consider tolerance to be a virtue: understanding is a virtue and a gift of God, but tolerance is not, so we must be understanding, not tolerant.

On the bolded sections. I’m not questioning the correctness of either statement I would simply like a bit of clarification. Could you please point me to the official Catholic teaching which states that this is a sin and whether is it mortal or venial please?

On the second bolded statement. Could you please explain how one is to express understanding without being tolerant?

 

[Drawmack]

BTW, for those who missed the show last night, ABC News has an article online which summarizes much of what was presented in the show.
abcnews.go.com/Primetime/MindMoodNews/Story?id=8126749&page=1

And here is the actual show fep.abc.go.com/fep/player?src=abccomjs&pn=index?aff=&partner=hulu&show=216354&episode=222959

You will have to install an add-on movie player and it doesn’t work in firefox.

 

[WillieWonka]

What is the real world alternative to tolerance? What does one do if they do not tolerate this?

 

[Dale_M]

You will have to install an add-on movie player and it doesn’t work in firefox.

It worked for me in Firefox, version 3.5.1

 

[aspawloski4th]

I am very sick and tired of any transsexual issue being discussed having someone trying to turn it into a homosexuality discussion. Read my lips “they are not connected” . From Chloe’s story it was told she can remember feelings as far back as 6 years old. At 6 years old there is no sexual attraction. The more people do this kind of thing with my discussions the more I get pushed associating with other Catholics.

 

[Drawmack]

I am very sick and tired of any transsexual issue being discussed having someone trying to turn it into a homosexuality discussion. Read my lips “they are not connected” . From Chloe’s story it was told she can remember feelings as far back as 6 years old. At 6 years old there is no sexual attraction. The more people do this kind of thing with my discussions the more I get pushed associating with other Catholics.

I think that there are many reasons this happens. Primarily it is a lack of understanding, and any desire to do so. Most people, Catholic or not, do not, honestly, seek to understand that which is different from them. From my experience, most people would rather condemn that which is different than make any attempt to understand it.

Look at some of the things atheists say about theists, and vice verse. Look at some of the things that pro-lifers say about pro-choice, and vice verse.

I say this because I do not think that you should take it personally when people do, and insist on doing, this to you. Rise above; remain calm; keep your cool; and explain, for the umpteenth time, that the issues are separate and why.

I think that another reason for the, insistent, confusion is that the movements have been lumped together. It’s called the LBGT movement, as if all four issues are one and the same.

I would also like to tell you not to give up the ghost and sink into the quagmire of emotionalism. I have learned a ton from yourself and Zoe about this both from your words and from the links you have posted. If you descent into emotionalism your cause will be loosing a great voice!

 

[aspawloski4th]

I think that there are many reasons this happens. Primarily it is a lack of understanding, and any desire to do so. Most people, Catholic or not, do not, honestly, seek to understand that which is different from them. From my experience, most people would rather condemn that which is different than make any attempt to understand it.

Look at some of the things atheists say about theists, and vice verse. Look at some of the things that pro-lifers say about pro-choice, and vice verse.

I say this because I do not think that you should take it personally when people do, and insist on doing, this to you. Rise above; remain calm; keep your cool; and explain, for the umpteenth time, that the issues are separate and why.

I think that another reason for the, insistent, confusion is that the movements have been lumped together. It’s called the LBGT movement, as if all four issues are one and the same.

I would also like to tell you not to give up the ghost and sink into the quagmire of emotionalism. I have learned a ton from yourself and Zoe about this both from your words and from the links you have posted. If you descent into emotionalism your cause will be loosing a great voice!

I think the reason my I get tired of explaing it is partly because I never thought that way ever, and the more fact if growing up if something had to be explained to me over and over a kick in the pants was likely fourthcoming. GLBT asside one has to make a long stretch to connect inner identity and sexual attraction. With many Catholics in the USA I think we have an ageold problem prevalent in the Catholic community at large. Ignorance. If it’s a Republican Catholic, all they know is their job and a few conservative issues, if it’s a Democrat Catholic all they know is their job and whats going on at the union hall, both sides might know whats going on on American Idol or Law And Order. With a few exceptions we are a big group of know nothings At some point people have to realize and learn about the stuff outside of their little own world.

 

[Lilyflower]

Don’t mix up politics and faith.

And never forget the Church’s constant teaching: **Transexuality, like homosexuality, is not a sin, but the act of changing your sex, just like the act of homosexual love, is indeed a sin. Whether venial or mortal, it is a sin and every sin must be despised and avoided; **every soul who is suffering deserves our mercy, especially those who suffer spiritually, and so we must be compassionate to transexual and homosexual people, especially by praying for them; and one must not consider tolerance to be a virtue: understanding is a virtue and a gift of God, but tolerance is not, so we must be understanding, not tolerant.

My emphasis.

Why not blame people in wheelchairs for being sinful because they refuse to use their legs to walk???

I have never read such uninformed prejudicial nonsense in my entire life. No wonder folk in the wider sociey reject Catholicism.

Transexuality has nothing whatsoever in common with homosexuality.

Transexuals are born that way. They are genetically female but physiologically male! So to which gender do they belong?

Some genetic females seek to have their male genitalia removed to bring them in line with their true female identity while others consent to live out their lives as males even though they are genetically female.

Transexuals are never accepted in either camp. Either way, they are condemned to live a life not fitting either male or female, while patronising ill informed people tell them they are akin to homosexuality.

One in 600 live births are transexual.

 

[tjm190]

This didn’t flow very well at all… still trying to make sense of it

 

[aspawloski4th]

My emphasis.

Why not blame people in wheelchairs for being sinful because they refuse to use their legs to walk???

I have never read such uninformed prejudicial nonsense in my entire life. No wonder folk in the wider sociey reject Catholicism.

Transexuality has nothing whatsoever in common with homosexuality.

Transexuals are born that way. They are genetically female but physiologically male! So to which gender do they belong?

Some genetic females seek to have their male genitalia removed to bring them in line with their true female identity while others consent to live out their lives as males even though they are genetically female.

Transexuals are never accepted in either camp. Either way, they are condemned to live a life not fitting either male or female, while patronising ill informed people tell them they are akin to homosexuality.

One in 600 live births are transexual.

Amen! It’s refreshing to see someone that gets it. This obsession with homosexuality by Catholics makes me wonder about their state of mind. I think about sex hardly at all. There are so many more important things to think about. Sounds like to me the typical Catholic’s mind is more close to being warped than the typical transsexual’s.

 

[Dale_M]

This obsession with homosexuality by Catholics makes me wonder about their state of mind.

I know it must be frustrating to see, over and over, transsexualism conflated with homosexuality. No, the two have nothing to do with one another.

But I think some confusion of the two is inevitable. Most people, even if they disagree with it, can wrap their minds around same-sex attraction. They understand what it is like to feel attraction to the opposite sex, and by extension can “understand” how someone might feel the same attraction, even if it is to a member of the same sex.

But transsexualism is totally beyond the experiences of almost everyone. Few people understand what it is like to feel like they have the wrong body, day after day, with reminders every few minutes. So I think people try to relate transsexualism to something they do understand, and the closest thing they can think of is homosexuality since many gays and lesbians challenge traditional gender roles (e.g. the boy or man who is deemed not masculine enough)

 

[Drawmack]

But transsexualism is totally beyond the experiences of almost everyone. Few people understand what it is like to feel like they have the wrong body, day after day, with reminders every few minutes. So I think people try to relate transsexualism to something they do understand, and the closest thing they can think of is homosexuality since many gays and lesbians challenge traditional gender roles (e.g. the boy or man who is deemed not masculine enough)

I had that problem for quite some time myself. In another thread Zoe posted a link to the story of what it’s like to be transsexual through a transsexual’s eyes; maybe she’ll be kind enough to repost it here because I forgot to bookmark it. That story was a real eye-opener for me and led me to two analogous situations I have been in. I know these are not perfect, but they have allowed me to understand – at least on some level – to torment that plagues a transsexual.

The first is simply being where you did not belong. Everyone has been in this situation. Maybe you were the only straight person in a gay bar, maybe you were the only conservative in a room full of raging liberals, maybe you were the only Catholic at a religious centered event (i.e. a wedding) whatever it was there has been some time in your life when you just knew that you did not (by any stretch of the imagination) belong. Now, imagine if this feeling followed you into every situation you experience every day of your life. With that, you just might be scratching the surface of what it’s like to be a transsexual.

The other analogy I came up with is something that everyone might not have experienced, I don’t know because I’ve never talked about it with anyone. The summer between ninth and tenth grades I grew almost 8 inches. For the next two years after this I was plagued by feeling like I did not belong in my body. I felt like my body was bigger than I was. I would, quite often, injure myself because I was trying to cram my body where it did not fit; I didn’t even realize how large my body was. I was gangly and clumsy. In ninth grade I was a starting center on the JV basketball team – in tenth grade I didn’t make the first cut. I felt like a midget trapped in a giants body. Eventually with time I got used to my new body and the feelings subsided. I would imagine that if these feelings never stopped, never even ebbed for one second, that then I just might be scratching the surface on what’s it’s like to be a transsexual.

I hope that maybe these will help someone else (who is not afflicted with this terrible condition) to at least grasp at a straw of understanding. I would also like to ask the transsexuals here if they think I am on the right path with my understanding of their condition.

Editor’s Note: I call it a condition for lack of a better word. I’m not implying anything by using that word.