Principal Differences Between the SSPX and SSPV?

[ProVobis]

The bottom line is that if liceity is the ONLY criteria to look at, then we would have a lot of Masses to worry about other than those of the SSPV.

For sure, but just don’t question the validity of the OF.

 

[pnewton]

I would propose that union with the Catholic Church and the use of the Pope’s name is not necessary for a valid Sacrament. The Eastern Orthodox Church’s are considered to have a valid Sacrament without it. If the priest has been validly ordained, the bread is simple wheat and water and the words of consecration are said, I believe it would be valid. However, I am no canon lawyer so I just put this out as an idea in which I could be wrong.

 

[ProVobis]

I would propose that union with the Catholic Church and the use of the Pope’s name is not necessary for a valid Sacrament. The Eastern Orthodox Church’s are considered to have a valid Sacrament without it. If the priest has been validly ordained, the bread is simple wheat and water and the words of consecration are said, I believe it would be valid. However, I am no canon lawyer so I just put this out as an idea in which I could be wrong.

I forgot about the Eastern Orthodox. Yes they have a valid Catholic rite.

 

[Aramis]

I’m confused too since I pointed out that since the Pope is not mentioned in the SSPV canon, I would question whether it’s a catholic rite. Did the Vatican ever approve such a version of the TLM, before or after Vatican II? I doubt it.

Actually, yes. The non-commemoration of the pope is standard during the interregnum periods where the new pope is not yet elected, and the prior pope is dead. (In the case of a retired pope, they are still commemorated, and continue to be commemorated following the sitting pope until death; while that hasn’t happened in living memory, it has happened historically.)

 

[ProVobis]

Actually, yes. The non-commemoration of the pope is standard during the interregnum periods where the new pope is not yet elected, and the prior pope is dead. (In the case of a retired pope, they are still commemorated, and continue to be commemorated following the sitting pope until death; while that hasn’t happened in living memory, it has happened historically.)

Picky, picky, picky.

 

[barb_finnegan]

I’ve been going to an SSPV chapel since late last year. I only go for the TLM-I’m not interested in the ‘politics’.

I can’t understand the bickering between traditional Catholics, no matter what churches/chapels they attend Mass.

I’ve gone to a SSPX church that’s an hour’s drive away from home. I hope and pray that they will be fully reconciled to the Church.

I was talking to the SSPV priest outside the chapel yesterday after Mass. I was almost going to ask him about Divine Mercy Sunday-but I kind of knew in my heart that he would put it down, just because it was ‘promoted’ by John Paul II. I wonder if they’ve ever read the history of St. Faustina’s visions…

I’m tempted to get a copy of Papa Benedict’s Motu Proprio on the Latin Mass, and give it to the SSPV priests and people. But they won’t listen to him either, much less read what he has to say…sigh…

I keep my thoughts and opinions pretty close to the vest when I’m among the SSPVers. Yet they’re not bad people-not at all.

They just want to believe what the Catholic Church has taught for ages…sometimes it’s very confusing.

I just wish that traditional Catholics-be they SSPXers, SSPVers, FSSPers-would get along! We want the same things, don’t we…don’t we?

I know I’m kind of rambling here…

 

[Lujack]

I’ve been going to an SSPV chapel since late last year. I only go for the TLM-I’m not interested in the ‘politics’.

I can’t understand the bickering between traditional Catholics, no matter what churches/chapels they attend Mass.

I’ve gone to a SSPX church that’s an hour’s drive away from home. I hope and pray that they will be fully reconciled to the Church.

I was talking to the SSPV priest outside the chapel yesterday after Mass. I was almost going to ask him about Divine Mercy Sunday-but I kind of knew in my heart that he would put it down, just because it was ‘promoted’ by John Paul II. I wonder if they’ve ever read the history of St. Faustina’s visions…

I’m tempted to get a copy of Papa Benedict’s Motu Proprio on the Latin Mass, and give it to the SSPV priests and people. But they won’t listen to him either, much less read what he has to say…sigh…

I keep my thoughts and opinions pretty close to the vest when I’m among the SSPVers. Yet they’re not bad people-not at all.

They just want to believe what the Catholic Church has taught for ages…sometimes it’s very confusing.

I just wish that traditional Catholics-be they SSPXers, SSPVers, FSSPers-would get along! We want the same things, don’t we…don’t we?

I know I’m kind of rambling here…

Not really. The SSPV explicitly teaches that Vatican II taught heresy, and further teaches that the addition of St. Joseph to the Roman Canon renders Masses questionable, if not invalid. They also hold that the popes since Pius may or may not be invalid.

None of this is taught by the SSPX or the FSSP. Both outright reject sedevacantism, among other things.

 

[Cristiano]

My question has to do with the validity of the SSPV Mass. Are the ordinations of all the SSPV bishops and priests valid?

 

[ProVobis]

My question has to do with the validity of the SSPV Mass. Are the ordinations of all the SSPV bishops and priests valid?

We don’t hear too much from them. The SSPX is more of a threat to the Novus Ordo than the SSPV so that’s why perhaps they’re being discussed more on this forum.

 

[Cristiano]

My question has to do with the validity of the SSPV Mass. Are the ordinations of all the SSPV bishops and priests valid?

We don’t hear too much from them. The SSPX is more of a threat to the Novus Ordo than the SSPV so that’s why perhaps they’re being discussed more on this forum.

First whether we hear from them the validity of their order is not affected. The decision on the validity has to come from the Vatican. Second neither the SSPV nor SSPX are a thread to the “Novus Ordo”.

 

[ProVobis]

First whether we hear from them the validity of their order is not affected. The decision on the validity has to come from the Vatican. Second neither the SSPV nor SSPX are a thread to the “Novus Ordo”.

I said “more of”. It’s a matter of degree. Most things are.

 

[cam100]

My question has to do with the validity of the SSPV Mass. Are the ordinations of all the SSPV bishops and priests valid?

A bishop cannot lose his ability to ordain; therefore, even a sedevacantist bishop could ordain validly, although he would commit a grave sin by doing so. The ordination would be valid, but illicit.

 

[Cristiano]

A bishop cannot lose his ability to ordain; therefore, even a sedevacantist bishop could ordain validly, although he would commit a grave sin by doing so. The ordination would be valid, but illicit.

True if the ordination of the bishop is valid! My question is still standing, are the ordinations of the bishops and priests valid according to the Vatican?

 

[malphono]

True if the ordination of the bishop is valid! My question is still standing, are the ordinations of the bishops and priests valid according to the Vatican?

The validity of the episcopal orders depends on the line of Apostolic Succession. It seems to be that it would be impossible to make a blanket statement to say that all or none of the sede bishops have a valid lineage. Rather, I’d think it would have to be taken and examined on a case-by-case basis.

My :twocents: for what it’s worth.

 

[cam100]

cam100;5111071:

A bishop cannot lose his ability to ordain; therefore, even a sedevacantist bishop could ordain validly, although he would commit a grave sin by doing so. The ordination would be valid, but illicit.

True if the ordination of the bishop is valid! My question is still standing, are the ordinations of the bishops and priests valid according to the Vatican?

To my knowledge, the Vatican has not issued any ruling on the consecration of specific sedevacantist bishops. I believe that the general rule is to assume an ordination is valid unless proven otherwise. From what I know of the Thuc consecrations, and the consecration of Bp. Kelly (who oversees the SSPV) by Bp. Mendez, those consecrations are apparently valid.