Prior Bond annulment?

[Cookie2]

I’ve been reading these posts with great interest and would like some clarification. My 1st husband, a baptized protestant, was previously married in Episcopal church to another baptized protestant. They were in the middle of divorce/separation proceedings when we met. He then moved to Nevada to establish residency for quick divorce. He and I (non-baptised at the time) married immediately in a wedding chapel. We divorced 21 years ago and since then I have become a Catholic and now wish to re-marry. It seems I was not in a valid sacramental marriage and therefore need to do what???

 

[1ke]

You need to go to your priest, lay out all the facts, and let your priest and the diocesan tribunal personnel guide you.

There will be several layers to this investigation.

 

[lizaanne]

You still need to have your situation reviewed by the Marriage Tribunal. Your priest can help you with this.

~Liza

 

[Cookie2]

Thank you both for your reply. Yes, I plan to visit a canon lawyer soon. My parish priest and diocese are so backed up it’s taking years here.

Peace be with you…

 

[tee_eff_em]

My parish priest and diocese are so backed up it’s taking years here.

That is astounding!

I know the aphorism does not have the force of Canon Law, but Justice delayed is justice denied. (And an investigation is a matter of justice)

If it is really taking that long to start, you might try a different venue – The investigation may be made in any of: the diocese of your current residence, the diocese of your putative spouse’s current residence, the diocese where the wedding took place, or the diocese where most of the evidence is to be collected. (Though some of these require consent of others – Your Canon Lawyer can advise)

:twocents:
tee

 

[Cookie2]

Yes, it is astounding! That is why I’m going out of my diocese to see a canon lawyer that helped another couple I know from my parish. She waited well over a year with no end in sight for a “ligamen” process and this guy took care of it within a couple of weeks.

Now, is it possible to have it filed in a diocese without any connection to the parties?

 

[tee_eff_em]

Now, is it possible to have it filed in a diocese without any connection to the parties?

I don’t expect so, but I am not a Canon lawyer:

Can. 1673 The following tribunals are competent in cases concerning the nullity of marriage which are not reserved to the Apostolic See:
1° the tribunal of the place where the marriage was celebrated;
2° the tribunal of the place where the respondent has a domicile or quasi-domicile;
3° the tribunal of the place where the plaintiff has a domicile, provided that both parties live within the territory of the same Episcopal Conference, and that the judicial Vicar of the domicile of the respondent, after consultation with the respondent, gives consent;
4° the tribunal of the place in which in fact most of the evidence is to be collected, provided that consent is given by the judicial Vicar of the domicile of the respondent, who must first ask the respondent whether he or she has any objection to raise.

tee

 

[Just_Lurking]

Cookie2;4004796:

Now, is it possible to have it filed in a diocese without any connection to the parties?

I don’t expect so, but I am not a Canon lawyer:

The Apostolic Signatura can permit this for a just cause (see here, Art. 10 § 4). It seems to me that Cookie2’s diocese sitting on the matter for over a year would be a just cause.

 

[puzzleannie]

. It seems I was not in a valid sacramental marriage and therefore need to do what???

you start by asking the pastor of the parish in which you reside to assist you in investigating the circumstances of this and any other previous marriage. If facts are as you state, very likely your ex was not free to marry, since his civil divorce had no effect, and therefore you have never been married. There might not be a need for a full annulment investigation, but definitely there is a process which must be followed, documentation and formal statement of the facts etc.

There is no way anybody here can presume to say what will be the outcome, since there is no way for us to know all the facts,

if you think the diocese where you reside now will be to slow, you can also file in the diocese where you (or your ex) resided at the time your “marriage” took place, or of the town where you were married.

 

[Cookie2]

Hello Forum,
As promised, I am reporting back after visiting a canon lawyer and discussing my options with him. With what supporting documents I could find in a short time, he felt there was no question that my ex’s first marriage was a valid marriage, thus making my marriage to him not valid, or null. I am now completing the gathering of court recorded documents (marriage certificates, divorce decrees, etc) to submit to the Tribunal. Once gathered and submitted I’m led to believe it should be a matter of days or weeks. Not planning a wedding until I have the nullity in hand however.

To sum up, I would encourage anyone who is an ‘ex’ of a formerly married person, to investigate whether or not it was valid. I was able to find marriage records in an Episcopal church along with Episcopal confirmation records for the 1st spouse, thereby making that marriage a valid, unannulled marriage in the eyes of our Catholic church. I feel extremely lucky and very blessed. I wish all the same success.

 

[bilop]

Hello Forum,
As promised, I am reporting back after visiting a canon lawyer and discussing my options with him. With what supporting documents I could find in a short time, he felt there was no question that my ex’s first marriage was a valid marriage, thus making my marriage to him not valid, or null. I am now completing the gathering of court recorded documents (marriage certificates, divorce decrees, etc) to submit to the Tribunal. Once gathered and submitted I’m led to believe it should be a matter of days or weeks. Not planning a wedding until I have the nullity in hand however.

To sum up, I would encourage anyone who is an ‘ex’ of a formerly married person, to investigate whether or not it was valid. I was able to find marriage records in an Episcopal church along with Episcopal confirmation records for the 1st spouse, thereby making that marriage a valid, unannulled marriage in the eyes of our Catholic church. I feel extremely lucky and very blessed. I wish all the same success.

Glad to hear!

These sort of cases can often be resolved quickly. My sister’s husband was able to get a decree within weeks on a prior non-Catholic marriage. He was baptized Catholic.

God Bless

 

[lizaanne]

I was in a similar situation myself when I was previously engaged to a man who’s previous wife had been married before. Her first wedding was deemed to have resulted in a valid marriage and so his marriage to her was not valid and we were granted permission to marry. We did not end up doing that, but just going through the process was certainly an interesting experience.

As a side note - after learning everything he did about the process and what constitutes a valid or invalid marriage - he jumped right back into an invalid union with a woman married twice before!!! He’s not Catholic by the way, but he should still have known better. When he told me he was engaged and what her situation was I told him he was getting into another invalid marriage and his eyes just bugged out << just like that. But he didn’t change his mind. Oh well.

Anyway - sorry for the silly story, I’m so glad this is working out for you!

God’s Blessings on your future!

~Liza

 

[Cookie2]

Thank you all for your support. I tossed around many sleepless nights prior to finding this forum with all my questions seeking answers. You’re all a blessing!!!

 

[Auntie_M]

Thank you all for your support. I tossed around many sleepless nights prior to finding this forum with all my questions seeking answers. You’re all a blessing!!!

I feel for you as I have been through the process. Mine was also determined to be a “ligamen”. I was trying to convert to Catholism and was told that I could not join the church until I went through this process.

It took ALOT of running here and there. As my first marriage was in another state. I had to get my husband’s first marriage license and divorce papers. And then our marriage license and divorce papers. Then got HIS sister and my sister to verify that neither he nor I were Catholic at the time.
(We married in a Baptist Church)

Then I also had to verify that I had been baptised. The church where I was Baptised had no records of Baptisms. (They didn’t keep records of that). So, I had to contact an old friend who was Baptised with me to verify this. I had not seen my friend in over 35 years.

I finally managed to gather all the info and then the Tribunal also sent the “annullment” process to my x. He had to do some paper work, (although I had already done most of it)
This whole process took almost a year.

But that first Eucharist…it was worth it!!!

Don’t get discouraged, you will be glad you did.