Give the poor guy a break. He’s a Catholic catechumen and asking for information. Could you not answer him without sounding so condescending?You talk as if Ad Orientem worship is a complete relic of the past when Pope Francis has offered plenty of Masses in this way.
Ed, you sound a bit nostalgic, and, frankly, I can’t really blame you.I was there before Vatican II. The Mass was celebrated with the priest facing the altar. It was very reverent, and in Latin. We used the 1962 Missal. The Mass was in Latin but the Missal also showed the words in English. Everyone wore their “Sunday Best” out of respect for the House of God. Easter Mass was at dawn. The altar boys wore robes with rope belts. There was a procession led by our pastor as he walked under a canopy with altar boys on either side gently swinging metal containers of incense. For the boys, we each had a potted lily and joined the procession which went around the Church. There was a great sense of reverence and our thoughts were on the divine. We joined with the choir even if we didn’t have good singing voices. Communion rails on either side of the middle aisle, near the altar, were where we knelt to receive Communion on the tongue. The outside world was more polite, respectful and modest in general. No, it was not perfect. We had crime and other problems but there were various Church societies and lay helpers. Each society had its own banner, which were placed together near the front left side of the Church. No, not everyone was Catholic, but we had a strong set of shared values in our neighborhoods and in our daily interactions with people. I felt the presence of God every day.
Ed
Well, think about it. Based on my actual experiences, and those of others who were there, certain facts about the way we lived simply worked. We didn’t lock our doors at night. We didn’t worry about nuclear war. We slept well at night. For us kids, life was about school, chores and wholesome entertainment. We respected each other and our parents more. We respected our government more. I remember reading beautiful editorials about the birth of Christ in the newspaper and there were a number of fun comic strips I collected. Neighbors were good neighbors. Yes, we had a few bad apples but we left them alone and didn’t bother them. No, society wasn’t perfect but it was far better than what too many are going through today.Ed, you sound a bit nostalgic, and, frankly, I can’t really blame you.
I agree because I was there too. My father used to tell me that some people in New York City slept on fire escapes during the summer months because there was no air conditioning. I can’t imagine doing that in modern society.Well, think about it. Based on my actual experiences, and those of others who were there, certain facts about the way we lived simply worked. We didn’t lock our doors at night. We didn’t worry about nuclear war. We slept well at night. For us kids, life was about school, chores and wholesome entertainment. We respected each other and our parents more. We respected our government more. I remember reading beautiful editorials about the birth of Christ in the newspaper and there were a number of fun comic strips I collected. Neighbors were good neighbors. Yes, we had a few bad apples but we left them alone and didn’t bother them. No, society wasn’t perfect but it was far better than what too many are going through today.
Ed
The priest still faces the altar.I was there before Vatican II. The Mass was celebrated with the priest facing the altar.
I’m not old enough to remember it directly, Ed, but I’ve read plenty about a cultural shift toward existential dread from almost the moment nuclear war became an actual possibility. That’s why they had all those atomic monster movies and duck-and-cover drills in the 50s. If you grew up before the mid-40s, then you didn’t worry about nuclear war because it wasn’t a real thing yet.We didn’t worry about nuclear war.
Ed
“We didn’t worry about nuclear war?” I don’t know how old you are, but I was in (parochial) grammar schools 1952-1960, and I have distinct memories of practicing “duck and cover” drills where we would scramble under our desks to practice protecting ourselves should an air raid warning be sounded. We frequently were lectured on Civil Defense, and where air raid shelters were located. There was lots of talk of a “missile gap,” which played a big role in the 1960 presidential campaign of JFK. The late 50’s began the heyday of back yard “fallout shelters.” Lots of articles about radiation half-life and the lingering effects of fallout and strontium-90 in things like milk. We worried about nuclear war a LOT.Well, think about it. Based on my actual experiences, and those of others who were there, certain facts about the way we lived simply worked. We didn’t lock our doors at night. We didn’t worry about nuclear war. We slept well at night. For us kids, life was about school, chores and wholesome entertainment. We respected each other and our parents more. We respected our government more. I remember reading beautiful editorials about the birth of Christ in the newspaper and there were a number of fun comic strips I collected. Neighbors were good neighbors. Yes, we had a few bad apples but we left them alone and didn’t bother them. No, society wasn’t perfect but it was far better than what too many are going through today.
Ed
I remember those days, remember how crazy it got during “The Cuban Missile Crisis”?“We didn’t worry about nuclear war?” I don’t know how old you are, but I was in (parochial) grammar schools 1952-1960, and I have distinct memories of practicing “duck and cover” drills where we would scramble under our desks to practice protecting ourselves should an air raid warning be sounded. We frequently were lectured on Civil Defense, and where air raid shelters were located. There was lots of talk of a “missile gap,” which played a big role in the 1960 presidential campaign of JFK. The late 50’s began the heyday of back yard “fallout shelters.” Lots of articles about radiation half-life and the lingering effects of fallout and strontium-90 in things like milk. We worried about nuclear war a LOT.
Vatican II began during the same year as the Cuban Missile Crisis. The US and former USSR deployed ICBMs in 1959. We had a Civil Defense sign on the entrance to our school gym. Nobody, and I mean nobody, worried about it. My dad and a lot of World War II vets, took it in stride.I’m not old enough to remember it directly, Ed, but I’ve read plenty about a cultural shift toward existential dread from almost the moment nuclear war became an actual possibility. That’s why they had all those atomic monster movies and duck-and-cover drills in the 50s. If you grew up before the mid-40s, then you didn’t worry about nuclear war because it wasn’t a real thing yet.
In short, that particular item may have been characteristic of your youth, but it doesn’t seem to have been a general truth of “the good old days” unless you go back far enough that it becomes trivially true because there was no prospect of nuclear war to be afraid of.
Usagi
No. A very calm, firm and well-spoken President said what needed to be said on national TV. Even as a boy I understood and I know my parents trusted him. I don’t recall any hysterics because I knew too many men who had seen war first-hand and I knew what a Hydrogen Bomb could do. God was with us.I remember those days, remember how crazy it got during “The Cuban Missile Crisis”?
Please don’t start. None of us were around in the 1400s and what about black people? We’ve got terrorists today. I just really hate it when anything positive gets said, it’s like the worst thing in the world. And none of us reading this were around in 1920 either.the nostalgia is a bit over the top.
I grew up in New York City. People slept on fire escapes but they locked the door to the apartment, I assure you of that.
Has everyone forgotten black people having to ride in the back of the bus? How about World War II, Korea and Japanese internment? The great depression? Kids paralyzed by Polio? Alcoholics Anonymous started in 1935 and before that alcoholics had almost no hope of recovery. Women couldn’t vote in the US until 1920. The list goes on.
The First Vatican Council decimated religious communities all over the world and it took Vatican II to restore them.
There was no chalice for the laity before Vatican II. There hadn’t been a chalice for the laity since the 1400’s.
There haven’t been permanent deacons in the Church since the eleventh century. Vatican II restored the permanent diaconate.
-Tim-
We knew there was nothing we could do about it. Nothing. So I spent zero time in bed, every night, worrying about it. That was rational. No one built bomb shelters and I live in Michigan - target number 5 on the Russians’ hit list. I should say targets because there were three close enough to where I lived that a “miss” of a mile or two still wouldn’t have mattered.“We didn’t worry about nuclear war?” I don’t know how old you are, but I was in (parochial) grammar schools 1952-1960, and I have distinct memories of practicing “duck and cover” drills where we would scramble under our desks to practice protecting ourselves should an air raid warning be sounded. We frequently were lectured on Civil Defense, and where air raid shelters were located. There was lots of talk of a “missile gap,” which played a big role in the 1960 presidential campaign of JFK. The late 50’s began the heyday of back yard “fallout shelters.” Lots of articles about radiation half-life and the lingering effects of fallout and strontium-90 in things like milk. We worried about nuclear war a LOT.
I think he’s saying that you may be looking at things through rose-colored glasses. Just because you may have lived life in a sort of Mayberry-type town doesn’t mean that your experiences were the same for everyone across the board.Please don’t start. None of us were around in the 1400s and what about black people? We’ve got terrorists today. I just really hate it when anything positive gets said, it’s like the worst thing in the world. And none of us reading this were around in 1920 either.
We were proud of our country. Today? No, not really.
Ed