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LoganBice
Guest
I see that I have stirred up a hornets nest of mixed.
Please remember I am not advocating pot or claiming it is morally correct.
Please remember I am not advocating pot or claiming it is morally correct.
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LoganBice
Guest
This is how I feel. I am in my last year in college and iv been around it enough to see people become lazy but that’s the worst. As opposed to drinking iv seen people destroy not only their own life but others too. I don’t think people should do any drugs because it’s a form of escapism but as far as the prison system no rehabilitating people is how I feel. We need a legal reform to try and help criminals and show alittle solidarity instead of throwing them in a cage with other like minded criminals.
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styrgwillidar
Guest
Eh, I have a problem with government enforcing one group of laws like drugs while actively aiding and abetting the violation of another group of laws like immigration. Amnesty for all.
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LoganBice
Guest
Another thing to note which I read about yesterday is that with THC potency rising because if advancements in botany it has actually caused people to pass out. While this is not life threatening in itself you can hit your head. The pass out comes because weed is vasodilator meaning it drops your blood presser, which once again isn’t a huge deal, BUT with the increasing potency the drop in blood presser can be so fast for some people it causes them to faint for a few seconds before you return to normal. I think I with legalization in Colorado we will begin to see more negative effects of weed. Because although I believe is
Is much less of an issue then alcohol I think with the legality of it attracting different people we will see some people react badly to it who would have never smoked without it being legal.
Is much less of an issue then alcohol I think with the legality of it attracting different people we will see some people react badly to it who would have never smoked without it being legal.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Yes. I agree with this. I had to vote for “always” but the poll was worded incorrectly. Also to note that “prison” and jail are two very different things.I guess the first choice is the best representation of my view though I take exception to the use of “always”. There should be some provision in the law for first time offenders with regard to possession for personal use. But anyone who sells should go to jail. And anyone who provides marijuana - for sale or for “free” - to a minor should go to jail. I don’t buy into the hooker or the drug dealer with a heart of gold fiction. Not only is drug dealing a larger crime, it is material cooperation in a violent, immoral industry.
Now there is a separate discussion as to whether the amount of incarceration is proportionate to the crime. But that’s a bigger issue than just marijuana.
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LoganBice
Guest
My apologies. I should have added a fourth options.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
You may have the issue backward. Perhaps the government (fed) “look the other way policy” did not just happen with immigration, but rather when the federal government refused to prosecute or enforce federal drug policy especially with marijuana. That state governments “legalized” it makes no difference that a federal crime is being committed.
You can thank the last two presidents for both problems…
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HerCrazierHalf
Guest
What is the purpose of laws and jail? We make laws and enforce then with jail time in part to protect people partially through deterrence and also by removing them from society.
For some, yes. But it also makes sense to commit the crime if one believes the punishment or even the law itself is unjust. If you believe a law is wrong aren’t you likely work at not getting caught instead of complying?
Jim Crow laws used to be on the books but many believed they were wrong and wilfully violated them while attempting to push for change.
A small, less politically charged example is the speed limit. Lots of people follow it when the police are around but as soon as they can get away with it they regularly break that law even though the ticket (over $400 sometimes ) plus higher insurance rates are a harsh penalty. It isn’t jail but why wouldn’t we expect human nature to extend to more severe crimes?
That’s what i get for replying on my breaks during a stressful work day.
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LoganBice
Guest
I look at it this way. As HerCrazierHalf pointed out, jail time is suppose to protect society form such criminals. For example the reason the Church no longer supports the death penalty in the modern world is because our current system allows us to remove murders without having to end their life. The death penalty is only morally acceptable when that is the only way to protect society from that person. Sending an 20 year old to prison because he has pot on him doesn’t seem like a good solution.
Your not protecting society because people who smoke weed (from my experience because I am around many of them because of my college environment) aren’t damaging to society, generally. They mainly just sit in their rooms and watch tv or play video games. It makes you A-motivational and calm. I had my own spurt of MJ use before I came back to the Church and it effected my life negatively only when I chose to use the MJ when I had homework to do. Other then that it helped calm me down after a high gear day and relax from all the stress. Unlike liquor, which makes me an emotional roller coaster. I get sad and destructively angry, which is why I stopped drinking and substituted it with weed. I am not saying it was the correct choice to start using it and I no longer use it because it goes against my faith. What I am trying to say is that we send people to jail for a non-violent, non-deadly, herb that doesnt nearly impart your reasoning the same way drinking does. Drinking makes me a stupid idiot who will easily fall into sin. When “high” on weed my reasoning isn’t quite impaired. I actually think much deeper about things such as morality. I honestly don’t like when people compare the two because they are very different. I think that instead of sending people to prison we need to work to help people find a more productive way to deal with stress, anxiety and help them find a productive way to relax. I mean look at the pharmaceutical world. Many people I know who condemn MJ use are one prescriptions such as xanex, depression meds or aderrall. Personally I think our medical world today just gives out pills to cope with psychological issues people aren’t dealing with. For example I have a family member on depression meds. She went to the doctor and is overweight, pre diabetic and very unhealthy. The doctor told her she needs to excercise and eat better, and she said I won’t do that so he just gave he drugs. She is also heavily in debt and addicted to shopping. If you look at psychological behavioral triggers things such as unhealthy lifestyle, addiction to consumerism (which causes you to measure happiness on material wealth), and self pity cause your issues. The problems in her life are complete self inflicted and many people today are this way but they are in denial about it because people no longer have accountability. I just find it very hypocritical that people say weed is this evil drug, while more then half our population is on prescription meds (which yes some need them but they are very overprescribed).
Here is my opinion to make it more clear.
Weed should not be something that is advocated for recreationally. No drugs should be advocated recreationally. I think that there are medical properties to THC that need to be more researched in. I also think the Hemp plant needs to be legalized for production purposes. It can make cloths, textiles, paper, building materials and many other things. It would also help us to keep from deforesting our beautiful earth (sorry i sound like a hippy but Im an outdoor sportsman so I love being in nature, hunting and fishing). I think that the legal punishment needs to be reformed to reflect the gravity of the crime and we should seek to help those you are users and not condemn them as criminals in the same context we say a robber is a criminal. I think dealers, distributers and people in that area should be punished more severely.
So basically it isn’t a moral thing to do, because altering your perception is never virtuous, but needs to be talked about realistically and logically when it comes to its legality. I think it should be decriminalized. Which several cities have done. It makes it still illegal but there is only a fine for anything under 32 grams. Which is what they did in my city of Saint Louis. An honestly I rather have someone be fined and have to use their money as opposed to my tax dollars sending them to prison where they won’t be helped.
Sidenote: For those of you you think weed contributes to a violent criminal underground please think again. That is true when it come to weed from Cartels or dangerously damaging drugs like heroine, or meth. But you also must remember much of the weed that flows through cities come out of Colorado, California, and Canada. Most of it is grown legally (especially now) and much of it comes out of legal despensaries. Now granite this isn’t always the case but it is very much of the time.
We can also take examples of countries that decriminalized drugs. Portugal for example decriminalized ALL drugs and their addiction rates dropped significantly.---->
forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/07/05/ten-years-after-decriminalization-drug-abuse-down-by-half-in-portugal/
Drug abuse is a problem that requires solidarity from us as opposed to punishment and resentment. They have a treatable problem, so why not treat them.
Your not protecting society because people who smoke weed (from my experience because I am around many of them because of my college environment) aren’t damaging to society, generally. They mainly just sit in their rooms and watch tv or play video games. It makes you A-motivational and calm. I had my own spurt of MJ use before I came back to the Church and it effected my life negatively only when I chose to use the MJ when I had homework to do. Other then that it helped calm me down after a high gear day and relax from all the stress. Unlike liquor, which makes me an emotional roller coaster. I get sad and destructively angry, which is why I stopped drinking and substituted it with weed. I am not saying it was the correct choice to start using it and I no longer use it because it goes against my faith. What I am trying to say is that we send people to jail for a non-violent, non-deadly, herb that doesnt nearly impart your reasoning the same way drinking does. Drinking makes me a stupid idiot who will easily fall into sin. When “high” on weed my reasoning isn’t quite impaired. I actually think much deeper about things such as morality. I honestly don’t like when people compare the two because they are very different. I think that instead of sending people to prison we need to work to help people find a more productive way to deal with stress, anxiety and help them find a productive way to relax. I mean look at the pharmaceutical world. Many people I know who condemn MJ use are one prescriptions such as xanex, depression meds or aderrall. Personally I think our medical world today just gives out pills to cope with psychological issues people aren’t dealing with. For example I have a family member on depression meds. She went to the doctor and is overweight, pre diabetic and very unhealthy. The doctor told her she needs to excercise and eat better, and she said I won’t do that so he just gave he drugs. She is also heavily in debt and addicted to shopping. If you look at psychological behavioral triggers things such as unhealthy lifestyle, addiction to consumerism (which causes you to measure happiness on material wealth), and self pity cause your issues. The problems in her life are complete self inflicted and many people today are this way but they are in denial about it because people no longer have accountability. I just find it very hypocritical that people say weed is this evil drug, while more then half our population is on prescription meds (which yes some need them but they are very overprescribed).
Here is my opinion to make it more clear.
Weed should not be something that is advocated for recreationally. No drugs should be advocated recreationally. I think that there are medical properties to THC that need to be more researched in. I also think the Hemp plant needs to be legalized for production purposes. It can make cloths, textiles, paper, building materials and many other things. It would also help us to keep from deforesting our beautiful earth (sorry i sound like a hippy but Im an outdoor sportsman so I love being in nature, hunting and fishing). I think that the legal punishment needs to be reformed to reflect the gravity of the crime and we should seek to help those you are users and not condemn them as criminals in the same context we say a robber is a criminal. I think dealers, distributers and people in that area should be punished more severely.
So basically it isn’t a moral thing to do, because altering your perception is never virtuous, but needs to be talked about realistically and logically when it comes to its legality. I think it should be decriminalized. Which several cities have done. It makes it still illegal but there is only a fine for anything under 32 grams. Which is what they did in my city of Saint Louis. An honestly I rather have someone be fined and have to use their money as opposed to my tax dollars sending them to prison where they won’t be helped.
Sidenote: For those of you you think weed contributes to a violent criminal underground please think again. That is true when it come to weed from Cartels or dangerously damaging drugs like heroine, or meth. But you also must remember much of the weed that flows through cities come out of Colorado, California, and Canada. Most of it is grown legally (especially now) and much of it comes out of legal despensaries. Now granite this isn’t always the case but it is very much of the time.
We can also take examples of countries that decriminalized drugs. Portugal for example decriminalized ALL drugs and their addiction rates dropped significantly.---->
forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/07/05/ten-years-after-decriminalization-drug-abuse-down-by-half-in-portugal/
Drug abuse is a problem that requires solidarity from us as opposed to punishment and resentment. They have a treatable problem, so why not treat them.
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ahs
Guest
Yes. It’s also used as punishment for breaking a law. That’s my only point there…that we are talking about something which is already illegal [for the most part].
Yes, exactly. If a law is unjust I would see no reason to imprison someone for breaking it. Rosa Parks is a shining example. I just don’t think that Marijuana qualifies as ‘just vs. unjust’. But that’s when we start discussing opinions. My own opinion is that there’s nothing unjust in keeping pot illegal, so it makes sense to lock up folks who break that law.
But as I said earlier, I also take no issue with the legalization of pot.
I do it, too sometimes. Don’t feel too bad.
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LoganBice
Guest
I agree. There is no just reason to legalize Marijuana. Which is why i posed the question of if the legal consequence for possession of Marijuana is in line with the gravity of the crime. Basically the whole notion of cruel and unusual punishment. I personally think jail time for people who are caught with an amount without intention to distributed is cruel and unusual.
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HerCrazierHalf
Guest
Ok, sidestepping my stance that it should be legal, is there a point that the resources and effects of enforcing a law make it better not to enforce that law or reduce enforcement?
If we say that we enforce something because it is the law then the IRS should conduct a much greater number of audits and pursue collection efforts even if unprofitable. But I doubt many would support that.
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LoganBice
Guest
I would say so. The war on drugs is a prime example. Billions upon billions are dumped into a endless war that has not changed much. People may claim, “we need to wage a war on drugs.” But there are many other things that are illegal that we do not declare war on. If weed became legal I don’t think it would be the worst thing in the world. I believe there isn’t a morally justifiable reason to legalize another drug, but at the same time there isn’t a huge moral justification for dumping billions of dollars to keep people from doing something that does not equate to the amount of money spend combating it. From a logical standpoint the legalization makes sense from an economic and health effects standpoint. What I mean is if you argue that it should be illegal because it is unhealthy then one must also admit that alcohol, tobacco, fast food, prescription pills, tanning, among other things are all also is bad if not worse. So if the argument is strictly based of health then it logically makes no sense to keep it illegal. From an economic standpoint it would make sense to legalize it because it could be regulated, taxed, create business and another economic stimulant. But from a moral standpoint it is hard to justify. As a nonbeliever I assume you don’t think it is immoral but you can’t claim that it is moral. Im assuming you would see it as neutral. So from a Catholic perspective I don’t see a moral justification for its legalization but I also believe that the resources spent on it, prison time, and lack of rehabilitation is a great injustice in itself.
So basically Im saying is that morally you shouldn’t do it but there is something wrong with the way that it is handled in the legal system.
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thistle
Guest
For dealing yes they should go to prison.
For smoking some form of rehabilitation should be imposed. A smack on the wrist and a fine is useless.
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styrgwillidar
Guest
Absolutely agree. The disparity being allowed between state and federal drug laws on marijuana are another example of the breakdown in law and order. It’s insane that in California while the state has passed medical marijuana laws the feds can, and still do occasionally, arrest and prosecute folks. When they do the state doesn’t jump in to defend them, they’re left to twist in the wind.
If this is a states rights issue the states should take it to court and have that ruling made. If it’s not, than the states should be pushing their congressmen to get the law changed. We shouldn’t be operating in the gray zone where it is/isn’t legal and is/isn’t prosecuted based on a whim-- or some random motivation of a prosecutor.
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styrgwillidar
Guest
You left out the costs of crime associated with it from the user on up to the cartels. It’s like prohibition of alcohol, the increased profits which could be made drove gangs and the activity associated with them. All the problems with drugs (marijuana and others) are not going away until the demand for them drops… there seems to be plenty of demand regardless of what the laws are, the costs to drugs, or penalties imposed.
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Personanongrata
Guest
You don’t go to prison JUST for drinking alcohol. But you can if you kill someone while driving drunk. Same thing should apply with pot.
C
ClearWater
Guest
Well, again and again, people try to say marijuana isn’t that bad. It can cause psychosis.
Read below:
addictions.about.com/od/legalissues/a/Marijuana-And-Psychosis-Risk.htm
People can lose touch with reality, not be able to differentiate what’s real and what’s not, have** hallucinations**, and delusions. There was also mention of something called, “prodromal”. See here for more detail on that: addictions.about.com/od/drugdictionary/g/What-Is-Prodromal.htm
People with schizophrenia, according to this article use marijuana at a higher rate than the regular population, and there is a whole other scenario with all that.
A lot of people turn to drugs, or alcohol, because there is some underlying problem they are trying to deal with, and this becomes a form of codependency, with this drug, to self medicate for mental/emotional problems.
Marijuana isn’t harmless. It gives people sort of lack a lack of ambition. They become focused only with that drug, don’t really do much of anything else.
Read below:
addictions.about.com/od/legalissues/a/Marijuana-And-Psychosis-Risk.htm
People can lose touch with reality, not be able to differentiate what’s real and what’s not, have** hallucinations**, and delusions. There was also mention of something called, “prodromal”. See here for more detail on that: addictions.about.com/od/drugdictionary/g/What-Is-Prodromal.htm
People with schizophrenia, according to this article use marijuana at a higher rate than the regular population, and there is a whole other scenario with all that.
A lot of people turn to drugs, or alcohol, because there is some underlying problem they are trying to deal with, and this becomes a form of codependency, with this drug, to self medicate for mental/emotional problems.
Marijuana isn’t harmless. It gives people sort of lack a lack of ambition. They become focused only with that drug, don’t really do much of anything else.
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