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fix
Guest
How do they contradict me? If they do not contradict the CCC then how can the sister in question, and you, claim abortion and all wars are equal in terms of morality?They don’t. But they do contradict you!
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ziggernaut
Guest
What the heck does that mean?They don’t. But they do contradict you!
God Bless,
Jeff
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East_and_West
Guest
No it does not. War, which is not a good thing, as the Pope points out, is some times necessary and just. In such cases it is virtuous to aide your contry in a just war. We also need to be careful about slinging quotes around from modern Popes. Although they may have been good and holy men, they tend to be tainted by modernist thinking to some degree and that is why the make pacifiist-like statements. Don’t get me wrong, they have never made an erroneous ex cathedra statement, but Popes say things that are wrong all the time. They are not infallible in every thing they say.They don’t. But they do contradict you!
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fix
Guest
From the OP link:
There are many flaws with this line of reasoning, but a central flaw is the notion pro-choice is not pro-abortion. It is intellectually dishonest.
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childofmary1143
Guest
I think the Pope is speaking in a very philosophical and utopian sense. In a Perfect World, which we should seek, we wouldn’t have need for wars because there would be no sin. However we don’t live in that world yet and those statements that he said can’t contradict the Just War theory so it would only stand to reason that they are his opinions. Like the opinions he has given about the Death Penalty.
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Sir_Knight
Guest
I don’t know why we’re discussing my signature block in this thread but since questions have been asked and comments raised …
You find an image of a saint offensive? I guess that is something you need to take up with the Catholic Church.
I don’t believe that is officially the case but I may be mistaken.
I think it would be a good idea. We have patron saints for many things and if it were not for his ability with a handgun which came from many years of experience with it, at least one woman would have been raped and who knows how many other villagers would have been terrorized in a similar or worse fashion.
Good for them.
You already asked this question and I have replied that I do not know.
Yes he did. He took the time BEFORE HAND to become a good shot with a firearm – not fearing that it was something evil but merely a tool which could be used EITHER for good or evil and because he was prepared, he was able to use it for much good.
That’s interesting to know because I picked one up at our parish fair about a month ago and even had my pastor bless it. He didn’t have any problem in doing so. Of course, he’s been know to carry a gun himself even when saying mass.
I havnen’t made such claim since 2004 & 2005 when it was pointed out to me that he was not official recognized a saint for his markmanship and during those two years, I mentioned it only a handful of times – I went back to check via the ‘search’ feature. You make it sound like I have done it recently and do it regularly. How misleading!!!
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Mimi
Guest
So what should I do if I find out a parishioner is a member of Call to Action? Go to my priest first?
I know for sure she is at least sympathetic bc she told me she’d gone to the convention (or whatever they call it) in Chicago,and she was all excited about the “women priests” who were “ordained”. I said, “Call to Action; aren’t they for abortion?”
She said “No.” But other articles I’ve read lead me to believe they are for anything and everything. It isn’t clear what they promote exactly from reading their web site.
Blessings,
Mimi
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childofmary1143
Guest
They are for abortion. The problem with Pro-Abortionists is that they insist that they are Pro-Choice and not Pro-Abortion.
As for the parishioner is she involved in your parish? I certainly wouldn’t want her to be teaching RCIA or Catechism for that matter.
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adrift
Guest
You think she has a point and yet you are offended by the depiction of a picture of a Saint that accurately portray an event in that Saint life?
:whacky:I know that you don’t want to admit to a just war that the Church does support but it doesn’t alter the truth that the Church does support war in certain circumstances. I think thats what some of the Crusades were.
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NewUlm1976_2000
Guest
She is correct, “pro-choice” does not equal “pro-abortion”, years of often repeated talking points has created this myth. She is a good Catholic, with the same overall goal to minimize abortions as much as possible. The key is to have enough resources in society so it becomes a no brainier to have the child for the mother. The mother often is between a rock and hard place with decreasing welfare help, lack of clear adoption services, health care for her child, etc…
It is a sad situation that many who choose abortions do it as a last resort.
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East_and_West
Guest
“Oh yeah. I am against the MURDER of unborn babies in their mothers’ wombs. I just think it needs to be legal. Yeah, infanticide needs to be legal.”
I am sorry, but being pro-choice is just sick.
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NewUlm1976_2000
Guest
Even illegal it will still happen, like it or not. As long as it is legal, there is a chance of outreach before it happens. It gives society a chance to keep the baby and not be lost in some back alley alone or on a black market.
Most mothers want to keep their children, they are often scared about how to be able to take care of it which is usually the last resort deciding factor.
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Brenda_V
Guest
I so disagree with these statements. Some women who seek abortions do so because they think they can not afford the baby! Many others do so because the baby is an inconvenience. Those women who come to see us at Birthright who are abortion minded tend to be those who feel like they are between a rock and a hard place but nine times out of ten it was their own bad behavior that caused this, we had one woman call and talk to our director who was pregnant with another mans baby, yes, she was married and was having an affair - her own sinful desires got her pregnant so the child should have to suffer death due to his/her mother’s behavior?
We have helped women choose life by pointing out their other options - adoption, raising the child themselves , providing lessons on child rearing, and material assistance when needed!
Any one who wants to say that being pro-choice does not include being pro-abortion is fooling themselves. “Oh, I wouldn’t have an abortion myself but I won’t stop my friend/sister from having one” makes about as much sense as saying I am pro-choice when it comes to physical abuse - “I wouldn’t beat my child/wife but I won’t stop my friend/brother form beating his child/wife”. (sorry guys, used you as the example as the abuser
). Remember, abortion is the ultimate in child abuse and our goals should not be to **minimize **abortions but to eliminate them.Brenda V.
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adrift
Guest
When used in the context that is the norm,meaning I am pro-choice because I believe a woman should choose to murder her unborn child, than of course it is pro abortion. The statement is disingenuous. Please provide proof that abortion is a last resort. You have a strange idea of what a “good” catholic is. She certainly is not.
Why do they always use that nothing is being done for children already born to justify their own bad behavior. Don’t look at me you are worst mentality when in fact they are denying that which is really being done.
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East_and_West
Guest
It happens alot less when it is illegal. Using your logic we should make murder, rape, burglary, etc legal because then at least there would be a chance of outreach.
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tm30
Guest
No offense intended, but this is convoluted. Abortion is intrinsically evil. There is never, under any circumstances a justification for either the act or the laws that permit it. You’re justifying the law by putting forth a “silver lining”.
And anyone who has a back alley abortion is assuming the risk. The equivalent would be a drug user that gets some bad heroine in a back alley and dies. Would it be better to legalize drugs so only quality heroine is sold?
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tm30
Guest
What if Lincoln only wanted to minimize slavery? Would you agree with the notion that, due to the massive loss of life incurred in the Civil War, we’d be better off as a nation if slavery was still legal (but hopefully “rare”)?
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estesbob
Guest
After Roe V Wade was imposed on the country abortions quadruled in this country.
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estesbob
Guest
Of course it does. I am always amused at the gyrations people who support abortion go through to try and keep from ever uttering the word abortion.
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estesbob
Guest
Lets look at the list of myths used to justify abortions-most of which have been pout forth in this thread.
Myth-Making abortion illegal will force women into back alleys where thousands will die.
Fact-less than 200 a year women on average died from illegal abortions prior to Roe.
Myth-Women will get abortion anyway
Fact-Of course some will but it has been shown that making abortion illegal will drastically reduce abortions. Prior to Roe the country averaged about 400,000 a year. Within two years of Roe they had increased to 1.5 million a year There have marked decreases in abortion in states that have implemented parental consent and informed consent laws.
Myth-Unwanted children will live in poverty and have a low quality of life
Fact: This is the classic "better dead than underfed " argument. Abortion cuts across all social spectrum’s from the rich to the poor. 60% of women who had abortion said they would not have had the abortion if they had had moral support from family/friends/souse/boyfriend, etc.
Myth-The reason women have abortions is because our social services are inadequate.
Fact-this can be described as “unless the country embraces my liberal social agenda the children will continue to die” argument. In less polite circles this is know as “extortion”. It also presupposes that it is OK to kill children to achieve political goals.
If one looks at other countries they will see there is little correlation between the level of social services and the number of abortions
Myth-Making abortion illegal will force women into back alleys where thousands will die.
Fact-less than 200 a year women on average died from illegal abortions prior to Roe.
Myth-Women will get abortion anyway
Fact-Of course some will but it has been shown that making abortion illegal will drastically reduce abortions. Prior to Roe the country averaged about 400,000 a year. Within two years of Roe they had increased to 1.5 million a year There have marked decreases in abortion in states that have implemented parental consent and informed consent laws.
Myth-Unwanted children will live in poverty and have a low quality of life
Fact: This is the classic "better dead than underfed " argument. Abortion cuts across all social spectrum’s from the rich to the poor. 60% of women who had abortion said they would not have had the abortion if they had had moral support from family/friends/souse/boyfriend, etc.
Myth-The reason women have abortions is because our social services are inadequate.
Fact-this can be described as “unless the country embraces my liberal social agenda the children will continue to die” argument. In less polite circles this is know as “extortion”. It also presupposes that it is OK to kill children to achieve political goals.
If one looks at other countries they will see there is little correlation between the level of social services and the number of abortions
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