Pro Choice Catholics

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ryecroft

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This question is not being put out to have a fight in sue - this is a true question. I know many Catholics who are not just twice a year Mass Catholics who are also pro choice. This does not mean that they’re going out and having an abortion if they get pregnant - it just means that they believe that in some situations, a woman should be able to choose.
Are these Catholics really doing anything wrong if they are not openly pushing for pro choice legislations and things? If all they do is have a personal belief that they believe a woman should be able to choose, what are they supposed to do. And no they are not about to go out and repent because they don’t feel they are doing anything wrong. I know that some feel like some Catholics feel like they should stop considering themselves Catholic. If I havn’t made myself clear about this question please let me know.
Thanks,
Ryecroft
 
There are nine ways to participate in sin, one of which is support. Pro-choice Catholics support abortion, thereby they themselves are guilty of abortion. If they do not repent, they will go to Hell. Though Catholic in name, they are not Catholic in practice, whereby they are not true Catholics.
 
You may be pro-choice, but GOD is Pro-Life.
From the very beginning GOD commanded,
“Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it.”
Genesis 1:28, and Genesis 8:17, and Genesis 9:1
GOD did not add, ‘If it is YOUR will’, or ‘If it pleases YOU’, or ‘If YOU decide to do so’,
or ‘IF IT IS YOUR CHOICE’, did He?
No, He said ‘DO IT’, It is GOD’s will, not ours, that children should be brought into this world.
If you will notice, this command was repeated at least three times in Genesis alone, and there are similar verses in other books. Now, why does anyone repeat himself?
To drive home a very important point, that is why.

You may be pro-choice, but GOD is Pro-Life
But Jesus said to them,
“Let the little children be,
and do not hinder them from coming to Me,
for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven.”
Matthew 19:14

Does an aborted child ever get to enjoy this heavenly privilege
But Jesus, knowing the reasoning of their heart, took a little child and set him at His side
and said to them,
“Whoever receives this little child for My sake, receives Me;
and whoever receives Me, receives Him who sent Me.”
Luke 9:47-48

Does Jesus Christ love children?

The word ‘children’ is mentioned over 1500 times in Holy Scripture.
From that, I must deduce that ‘children’ are of paramount
importance to GOD.


To the author of a book the fruit of his works belongs to the author.

“Or do you not know that your members are the temple of the Holy Spirit,
who is in you, whom you have from GOD,
and that you are NOT your own?
For you have been bought at great price.
Glorify GOD and bear Him in your body.”
1 Corinthians 6:19-20
GOD is Pro-Life.

Then the Lord said to Cain, “Where is your brother Abel?”
He answered, “I do not know. Am I my brother’s keeper?”
And the Lord said, “What have you done? The voice of your brother’s
blood cries to me from the ground. And now cursed are you in the soil
which has opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand.”
Genesis 4:9-11
GOD hears the blood of the innocent who were slain.
GOD is Pro-Life.

“Learn then that I, I alone, am GOD, and there is no god besides Me.
It is I who bring both death and life, I who inflict wounds
and heal them, and from My hand there is no rescue.”
Deuteronomy 32:39
GOD is Pro-Life.
More punishment equated to abortion:
“May they pass like the snail which melts away, like the aborted
fetuses of a woman which sees not the sun.”
Psalms 58:8 (9)

Hosea asks GOD for punishment of the Israelites for their iniquities:
“As for Ephraim, their glory has flown away like a bird,
from the birth and from the womb and from the conception.
And though they should bring up their children,
I will make them without children among men.
Yes and woe to them when I shall depart from them.
Ephraim, as I saw Tyrus, is planted in a pleasant place,
but Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer.
Give them O Lord. What will you give them?
Give them a miscarrying womb, and dry breasts.”
Hosea 9:11-14

“Yet you have brought me forth from the womb;
you did watch over me when I was at my mother’s breast.”
Psalms 22:10-11

"And when you stretch forth your hands, I will turn away My eyes from you;
and when you multiply prayer, I will not hear,

for your hands are full of blood.
Wash yourselves, be clean, take away the evil of
your devices from my eyes."

Isaiah 1:15-16

“For my eyes are upon all their ways: they are not hid from my face,
and their iniquity has not been hid from my eyes.”
Jeremiah 16:17

"But your iniquities have divided between you and your GOD,
and your sins have hid His face from you that He should not hear.

For your hands are defiled with blood, and your
fingers with iniquity.

Your lips have spoken lies, and your tongue utters iniquity."
Isaiah 59:2-3

"Fathers shall not be put to death for their children,

nor children for their fathers;

only for his own guilt shall a man be put to death.
Deuteronomy 24:16

“They served their idols, which became a snare to them. They even sacrificed their sons and their daughters to the demons, and shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and their daughters, whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan; and the land was polluted with blood,
and they were defiled by their own works, and fornicated in their crimes.”
Psalms 106:37-39
home.inreach.com/bstanley/abortion.htm
 
The Catholic Church has made it very clear that abortion in any instance is wrong. There are many politicians who claim to be Catholic but are still pro-choice. Murder is wrong. The age of the person being killed doesn’t matter.
Personally, I’m unable to understand how any person who claims to be a Christian or any moral person can possibly be pro-choice. After all we were given the Ten Commandments and murder is definitely one of the Thou Shalt Not’s.
 
I believe that abortion in the foundation stone of the fall of the American people. It is an active declaration of war against God. There are 61.4 M Catholics. cara.georgetown.edu/bulletin/index.htm Our Church is the very Bride of Christ. Our sin. The sin of the Catholic people is more violent against God than the sin of the Ungodly. We are in a covenant relationship the has been broken on our side of the table.

I know for a fact that there are Pro-choice Eucharistic Ministers in my own church and Catholic priests in this Dioceses that voted for Obama, an emissary of Satin. The false Catholic Joe Biden has been denied Communion cuatower.com/2008/09/09/bishop-refuses-communion-for-dem-vp-candidate-biden/. I don’t think its enough. He should be x communicated along with anyone else reading this who is Pro-choice.

Are we cursed? Look around. America is infested with bone crushing debt, illegal aliens, narcotics, STDs, increasing poverty, teenage pregnancy cuatower.com/2008/09/09/bishop-refuses-communion-for-dem-vp-candidate-biden/ and war.

God bless America? Why should he.
 
Let me add this - what if a Catholic personally believes that abortion should be allowed in certain circumstances but does nothing against what the church teaches. That person is still following church teaching even though personally they don’t agree with it. Is this not kind of like a Catholic who doesn’t agree with the church stance on say birth control but doesn’t go against the church with use that it doesn’t condone. I just don’t see how that person is doing anything wrong. It’s kind of saying, I don’t agree with the church but I’ll go along with the teaching because I believe that I should do what the church says.
 
Let me add this - what if a Catholic personally believes that abortion should be allowed in certain circumstances but does nothing against what the church teaches. That person is still following church teaching even though personally they don’t agree with it. Is this not kind of like a Catholic who doesn’t agree with the church stance on say birth control but doesn’t go against the church with use that it doesn’t condone. I just don’t see how that person is doing anything wrong. It’s kind of saying, I don’t agree with the church but I’ll go along with the teaching because I believe that I should do what the church says.
Provided said person was not speaking out against the Church, then it becomes simply a matter of doubt. The opposite of faith is disobedience. This person would be encouraged to continue to develop his conscience, but simply having the doubt would not be sinful. Acting upon the doubt or encouraging others to do so would be sinful.
 
Provided said person was not speaking out against the Church, then it becomes simply a matter of doubt. The opposite of faith is disobedience. This person would be encouraged to continue to develop his conscience, but simply having the doubt would not be sinful. Acting upon the doubt or encouraging others to do so would be sinful.
Well said.
 
Remember that Moses was pro-choice. He gave the Children of Israel a choice, but warned them to beware the consequences of making the wrong choice. Deuteronomy 30:15-18
See, I have set before you this day life and good, death and evil. 16 If you obey the commandments of the LORD your God* which I command you this day, by loving the LORD your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his ordinances, then you shall live and multiply, and the LORD your God will bless you in the land which you are entering to take possession of it. 17 But if your heart turns away, and you will not hear, but are drawn away to worship other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you this day, that you shall perish; you shall not live long in the land which you are going over the Jordan to enter and possess.
 
This question is not being put out to have a fight in sue - this is a true question. I know many Catholics who are not just twice a year Mass Catholics who are also pro choice. This does not mean that they’re going out and having an abortion if they get pregnant - it just means that they believe that in some situations, a woman should be able to choose.
Are these Catholics really doing anything wrong if they are not openly pushing for pro choice legislations and things? If all they do is have a personal belief that they believe a woman should be able to choose, what are they supposed to do. And no they are not about to go out and repent because they don’t feel they are doing anything wrong. I know that some feel like some Catholics feel like they should stop considering themselves Catholic. If I havn’t made myself clear about this question please let me know.
Thanks,
Ryecroft
There are no “pro-choice” Catholics.
 
Could you explain what situation would make abortion the correct choice?
 
Let me add this - what if a Catholic personally believes that abortion should be allowed in certain circumstances but does nothing against what the church teaches. That person is still following church teaching even though personally they don’t agree with it. Is this not kind of like a Catholic who doesn’t agree with the church stance on say birth control but doesn’t go against the church with use that it doesn’t condone. I just don’t see how that person is doing anything wrong. It’s kind of saying, I don’t agree with the church but I’ll go along with the teaching because I believe that I should do what the church says.
Jesus said that if a man “looked upon a woman with lust” he had committed adultry …As Christians - it does not take actually participating in a sinful or evil action for us to sin … all it takes is for our hearts to be ‘present’ and ‘accepting’ of the offense …

THUS:
  • A man who looks upon a woman in lust and does not even know her name - let alone egage in sexual activity has committed adultary …
  • A person who believes that the taking of innocent life through abortion is an acceptable choice has participated in abortions …
And you cannot convince me that a person who feels in such a way does not let their belief in abortion color how they interact with those around them [which could encourage a person to have an abortion or perpetuate the false impression of aboriton as acceptable], impact how and who they vote for [voting for those who would futher the abortion agenda, etc], and any number of other ways …
 
This question is not being put out to have a fight in sue - this is a true question. I know many Catholics who are not just twice a year Mass Catholics who are also pro choice. This does not mean that they’re going out and having an abortion if they get pregnant - it just means that they believe that in some situations, a woman should be able to choose.
Are these Catholics really doing anything wrong if they are not openly pushing for pro choice legislations and things? If all they do is have a personal belief that they believe a woman should be able to choose, what are they supposed to do. And no they are not about to go out and repent because they don’t feel they are doing anything wrong. I know that some feel like some Catholics feel like they should stop considering themselves Catholic. If I havn’t made myself clear about this question please let me know.
Thanks,
Ryecroft
The woman does have the right to choose to have an abortion. Our free will is to choose right over wrong not to choose right or wrong . Fr. Corapi boldly states “You can’t be Catholic and pro choice. Get it right once and for all”
 
Let me add this - what if a Catholic personally believes that abortion should be allowed in certain circumstances but does nothing against what the church teaches. That person is still following church teaching even though personally they don’t agree with it. Is this not kind of like a Catholic who doesn’t agree with the church stance on say birth control but doesn’t go against the church with use that it doesn’t condone. I just don’t see how that person is doing anything wrong. It’s kind of saying, I don’t agree with the church but I’ll go along with the teaching because I believe that I should do what the church says.
There is not one circumstance to allow abortion. Mother should protect her young. If the mother’s life is in risk the mother still should give birth and spare the child. As Catholics we believe life at contraception and natural death. We must follow the Church’s teaching and accept them. Using birth control is wrong and to violate that by using contraception is a sin. They have done something wrong. You should agree with the Church and not just do what the church says.
 
Let me add this - what if a Catholic personally believes that abortion should be allowed in certain circumstances but does nothing against what the church teaches. That person is still following church teaching even though personally they don’t agree with it. Is this not kind of like a Catholic who doesn’t agree with the church stance on say birth control but doesn’t go against the church with use that it doesn’t condone. I just don’t see how that person is doing anything wrong. It’s kind of saying, I don’t agree with the church but I’ll go along with the teaching because I believe that I should do what the church says.
Provided said person was not speaking out against the Church, then it becomes simply a matter of doubt. The opposite of faith is disobedience. This person would be encouraged to continue to develop his conscience, but simply having the doubt would not be sinful. Acting upon the doubt or encouraging others to do so would be sinful.
Yes, well put.
 
Wow, so what I am getting is a lot of if you don’t agree with the church than too bloody bad - is it just when it comes to this one issue or is it for all issues - I know of very few Catholics - very few Priests that agree 100% with the Catholic church’s teaching and docterine.As I mentioned I was not doing this to get into a fight but to get some good opinions and it seems it’s gone as far as it probably will without going into a fight. So thank you everyone who replied.
 
Also, someone asked whhen choosing an abortion would be the right call. Most of the Catholics I know and am refering to are talking about early in the pregnancy after a rape and also if the mother’s life is in jeopardy. It’s very easy for someone to say “well that person should always choose the life of the child over their own” - until you have been in that very situation, I don’t think you have any right to say that. I have been in that situation and I’m glad I’m still here. And yes I’m still Catholic. And I’ll answer this before it gets asked -it was a choice where there was very little chance of either of us making it and I waited as long as I could. I also don’t know of a Catholic husband (personally) who would choose to rather see his wife perish than loose a child.
 
Wow, so what I am getting is a lot of if you don’t agree with the church than too bloody bad -** is it just when it comes to this one issue or is it for all issues **- I know of very few Catholics - very few Priests that agree 100% with the Catholic church’s teaching and docterine.As I mentioned I was not doing this to get into a fight but to get some good opinions and it seems it’s gone as far as it probably will without going into a fight. So thank you everyone who replied.
Since you asked… It is all the issues of faith and morals where the Church has spoked definitively. If you disagree with a question of discipline such as whether married men should be ordained, there is no problem. If you have personal doubts about an issue of faith and morals, and are trying to resolve them, there is no problem. If it is a matter of faith or morals where the Church has not spoken definitively, there is no problem. An example that comes to mind is the ongoing discussion about snowflake babies.

But if it is an issue of faith or morals where the Church has spoken definitively, you owe assent of faith to the teaching. That means you do not speak out against the teaching, you try to resolve the difference and you do not act in any way against the teaching.

I am not joining in a fight. I am just answering this one embedded question.
 
Wow, so what I am getting is a lot of if you don’t agree with the church than too bloody bad - is it just when it comes to this one issue or is it for all issues - I know of very few Catholics - very few Priests that agree 100% with the Catholic church’s teaching and docterine.As I mentioned I was not doing this to get into a fight but to get some good opinions and it seems it’s gone as far as it probably will without going into a fight. So thank you everyone who replied.
Just my 2 cents …

Abortion is the taking of innocent life, the killing of a child, murder … that is not “Church” teaching … but a profound Truth … "Thou shalt not kill … " … For all of the 2000 years of Christian history [the secular history of the church, her traditions and writings], abortion has been condemned …

Far different then say … In the Latin Rite: an un-married celibacy for the priesthood … a discipline of the church … which has at times been required and other times not … one could hold a personal “opinion” that this discipline is un-necessary, unwarranted and / or one that should be changed, while submitting oneself to official teaching of the church [as as analogy to not participating in the action but only holding a private opinion] … that “opinion” is not sinful …

To say that you don’t personally have an abortion but that it is a valid and acceptable ‘choice’ is IMHO like the man who looks with lust upon a woman … as I noted in my earlier post … that speaks to where your “heart, soul and mind [strength]” are … you have accepted the murder of children …

Huge difference between the two, don’t you think?

Please do not feel alone … many [all] of us struggle with our God given gift of “Free Will” - that choice [desire] to conform our lives to Christ or the World, yo choose Good over evil …

Which do we choose? …

As Jesus pointed out with the man about adultery… first we choose in our hearts and minds - within ourselves, then we put that choice in action … the sin was there when the choice was made …

Thankfully, we have the teachings of Christ and the Church to help form our lives to Christ … Abortion is an intrinsic evil … nothing moderates that …

I can see that you are journeying with Christ - please open your heart to see that there is wisdom found in the teachings the church offers … and yes, many do not agree 100% as you noted … but then the failures of others is no defense when we stand before Jesus with the summation of our lives … we must answer for our own life and life decisions …

Pax Christe
 
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