Pro-choice Catholics

[catharina]

Sorry, I don’t think popes are infallible period.

Yet a defined Catholic teaching tells all
that a Pope is infallible in defining matters of faith and morals

So you are a dissenting Catholic. Now your views make some sense.

Thanks.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

…and I believe my Lord and Savior was a liberal.

Sorry, CMatt, but Jesus Christ, through His Church, moves beyond the lines of political affiliation. You can believe what you want, but the conservative and liberal sides have their large share of flaws and corruption so, Jesus would not agree with you on this one.

I wish you wouldn’t put Him in such a box.

 

[Toomey1979]

Clearly you have a lot to learn.

Toomey, this may come as a shock to you , but you don’t have the power to “force a woman to remain pregnant”. A woman who is pregant is in a natural state of child bearing.

Before modern abortive methods and law, all women who became pregnant accepted their pregancies as a normal function of sexual activity. I am sure there were many that regretted this result, but no one “forced them to remain pregnant”. They just accepted that this was their natural state until the birth of the child.

I find it a very interesting twist of words, though. And I am reminded of a pre-election speech in which a presidential candidate was asked what he would think if his daughter got pregnant. He responded “I certainly don’t think she should be punished with a child”. I was appalled. I had never heard of a child being considered a “punishment” before. It seems like your arguement comes from the same value system.

When you advocate the criminalization of all abortion you are forced all women to remain pregnant. But you don’t acknowlege your responsibility of your position if they die without having the access to abortion that would have saved some their lives. No you just advocate a policy that denies them the procedure to save their lives and throw up your hands and say “Not my fault”. Morally reprehensible. Just as bad as many of the abortionists. But at least they don’t strut around boasting about how pro-life they are.

 

[Toomey1979]

Yet a defined Catholic teaching tells all
that a Pope is infallible in defining matters of faith and morals

So you are a dissenting Catholic. Now your views make some sense.

Thanks.

Yeah and most of the people sitting next to you at mass are as well.

 

[Toomey1979]

This much is certain: popes shall never error on matters of Faith and Morals.

I guess all those popes that said that outside the Roman Catholic Church nobody can be saved were correct and John Paul II isn’t actually a pope then, right?

 

[lil_flower_luv]

Good for you. If you get raped or are facing complication from pregnancy that will kill you I support your rigfht to choose whatever you want to do.

For me personally, I would trust my life and my child’s life is in God’s hands. That is all that matters.

As for the young women who face these terrible circumstances, I only know that they will truly ‘live’ if they always choose life. Which would you rather they have: that they keep their life but be dead inside? Or that they face death, but be brought to New life?

So when are you gonna be satified. Making abortion illegal in most circumstances or you guys in the fight until every last abortion (life of mother/ rape etc) is illegal? Just curious.

I’m not worrying about that. However, so long as I have breath left in me, I will fight for the pro-life cause. The right cause.

In the end, Jesus Christ wins. Life wins. That is why I continue to say to the pro-lifers, don’t lose hope! Always fight for what’s right!

 

[guanophore]

How noble of you to demand the death of a woman for your religious views.

I think you must be upset, and are not reading the post correctly.

You indicated that you know there are treatments available for complicated pregnancies. You probably are also aware that these treatments are successful the majority of the time.

If Rence represents the majority, then she represents American Catholics. Not so called American Catholics. Does the Pope not consider Catholics, Catholic?

Actually, no. The Pope is aware that most of those in this country who call themselves “Catholic” are really not Catholic in faith. He is in favor of a smaller, more pure church. He knows this standard will make cafeteria Catholics feel unwelcome, and he is right.

This is why I respect your integrity. Don’t you see?

I just thought it was interesting to note that the views about the beginning of life rest entirely on very recent papal pronouncements. And everybody knows papal prouncements change over time

No, actually, they don’t. Modern science has been able to provide us with detalied evidence that human life begins at conception.

Even my godless developmental textbook defines human life this way. The fact that science has caught up with what the Church has always believed and taught is gratifying, though.

 Good for you. If you get raped or are facing complication from pregnancy that will kill you I support your rigfht to choose whatever you want to do.

A persons’ faith would have to be pretty shallow, if, when they were facing difficulties, suffering, and persecutions, they reverted to doing “whatever they want to do” instead of seeking the face of God for His guidance and direction.

 All kidding aside, you guys know that you are never going to actually illegalize abortion in all circumstances, right?

Hope springs eternal!

Even in the most Catholic South American countries abortion is legal in some circumstances. So when are you gonna be satified. Making abortion illegal in most circumstances or you guys in the fight until every last abortion (life of mother/ rape etc) is illegal? Just curious.

The godly thing to do is to fight to prevent the wanton destruction of innocent human life in all circumstances.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

I guess all those popes that said that outside the Roman Catholic Church nobody can be saved were correct and John Paul II isn’t actually a pope then, right?

Only to those who didn’t do their research and would like to sit around and make false assumptions.

 

[Toomey1979]

For me personally, I would trust my life and my child’s life is in God’s hands. That is all that matters.

As for the young women who face these terrible circumstances, I only know that they will truly ‘live’ if they always choose life. Which would you rather they have: that they keep their life but be dead inside? Or that they face death, but be brought to New life? I’m not worrying about that. However, so long as I have breath left in me, I will fight for the pro-life cause. The right cause.

In the end, Jesus Christ wins. Life wins. That is why I continue to say to the pro-lifers, don’t lose hope! Always fight for what’s right!

LOL. So even if we got rid of all abortion execpt when there is a credible thrat to a woman life you will still march up and down the street. Ironic that your crusade for life will continue to end the lives of women with troubled pregnancies. You don’t see the irony in that do you?

 

[Toomey1979]

Only to those who didn’t do their research and would like to sit around and make false assumptions.

Sure I guess all those popes didn’t do there research about being saved outside the church. Not so infallible after all…but digress.

 

[catharina]

Yeah and most of the people sitting next to you at mass are as well.

Nope. I know the folks at my parish
and they know me. Pro-life all the way.

Odd that you would think others are like you …very odd.

 

[catharina]

Sure I guess all those popes didn’t do there research about being saved outside the church. Not so infallible after all…but digress.

Guessing you have not studied Theology or even Church History
a day in your life. Nothing changed. It remains that all who
are SAVED are saved through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ
Who remains in His Church, - whether thay know it or not.

 

[catharina]

LOL. So even if we got rid of all abortion execpt when there is a credible thrat to a woman life you will still march up and down the street. Ironic that your crusade for life will continue to end the lives of women with troubled pregnancies. You don’t see the irony in that do you?

I see the obscenity of someone going “LOL” at the idea of killing infants.
You don’t see that, do you?

 

[Toomey1979]

I think you must be upset, and are not reading the post correctly.

You indicated that you know there are treatments available for complicated pregnancies. You probably are also aware that these treatments are successful the majority of the time.

.

But not all of the time. I don’t understand how you can trumpet being pro-life and demand someone take such a chance with their own. Like it isn’t hard enough for those people without you labeling them murderers. And lets face it. Even if was 100% certain that continuing would kill both woman and child and 100% chance that abortion would save the woman you would still oppose it. Because, for people like you, this aint about life, its about religious obedience.

 

[catharina]

But not all of the time. I don’t understand how you can trumpet being pro-life and demand someone take such a chance with their own. Like it isn’t hard enough for those people without you labeling them murderers. And lets face it. Even if was 100% certain that continuing would kill both woman and child and 100% chance that abortion would save the woman you would still oppose it. Because, for people like you, this aint about life, its about religious obedience.

**NO. It’s about the sanctity of ALL life.
I can NOT kill you to save my life.

It’s that simple.**

 

[guanophore]

Yeah but at least admit that one can predict if she can or even probably die. Knowing that, why risk it if you you the child will be lost anyway?

There are severe and fatal risks in a great many medical treatments.

Sorry, I don’t think popes are infallible period.

If your understanding of the gift of infallibity is as impaired as your understanding of the Church’s position on Life then all that means is that you have more valuable learning opportunities ahead.

When you advocate the criminalization of all abortion you are forced all women to remain pregnant.

No, Toomey. Pregnancy is a natural function of sexual relations. If interrupting this natural state requires that an innocent life be taken, then it is wrong to interrupt it.

Besides, pregnancy only lasts 9 months. If a person cannot refrain from committing murder for that short period of time, they probably need mental health treatment in addition to spiritual counseling.

  But you don't acknowlege your responsibility of your position if they die without having the access to abortion that would have saved some their lives.

No, because abortion is not a treatment, and does not save anyone.

No you just advocate a policy that denies them the procedure to save their lives and throw up your hands and say “Not my fault”. Morally reprehensible. Just as bad as many of the abortionists. But at least they don’t strut around boasting about how pro-life they are.

no woman needs to seek an abortion to save her own life. Abortion is not a medical treatment. It is the forcible removal of the fetus from the wome TO TERMINATE THE PREGNANCY, not to treat a medical problem.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

LOL. So even if we got rid of all abortion execpt when there is a credible thrat to a woman life you will still march up and down the street. Ironic that your crusade for life will continue to end the lives of women with troubled pregnancies. You don’t see the irony in that do you?

No, the crusades for life will continue to tell women that they deserve better than abortion.

You speak because you care about the woman, but if you truly believe that an abortion can be good for a woman AT ANY TIME, your message rings meaningless, because it’s not so.

 

[Toomey1979]

Guessing you have not studied Theology or even Church History
a day in your life. Nothing changed. It remains that all who
are SAVED are saved through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ
Who remains in His Church, - whether thay know it or not.

Whatever you say guess that Pope Eugene could have been clearer when he ranted about how heretics can’t be saved even if the pour out there blood for Christ because they weren’t Catholic. You’re like the dead in the sixth sense…you see what you want to see. How’s the weather in Lala land?

 

[catharina]

There are severe and fatal risks in a great many medical treatments.

If your understanding of the gift of infallibity is as impaired as your understanding of the Church’s position on Life then all that means is that you have more valuable learning opportunities ahead.

No, Toomey. Pregnancy is a natural function of sexual relations. If interrupting this natural state requires that an innocent life be taken, then it is wrong to interrupt it.

Besides, pregnancy only lasts 9 months. If a person cannot refrain from committing murder for that short period of time, they probably need mental health treatment in addition to spiritual counseling.

No, because abortion is not a treatment, and does not save anyone.

no woman needs to seek an abortion to save her own life. Abortion is not a medical treatment. It is the forcible removal of the fetus from the wome TO TERMINATE THE PREGNANCY, not to treat a medical problem.

In fact, as the law is written, abortion is a right at any time for any reson.
No reason at all is also quite acceptable.

 

[Toomey1979]

No, the crusades for life will continue to tell women that they deserve better than abortion.

You speak because you care about the woman, but if you truly believe that an abortion can be good for a woman AT ANY TIME, your message rings meaningless, because it’s not so.

Madame, you just said that you would continue to protest abortions even if they were only to save a woman’s life. You care only for your religious ideas. Not those women. Women don’t need your kind of care