Pro Choice Catholics

[ragincajunjoe]

I consistently seem to hear of people claiming to say that politicians “support the overturning of Roe vs Wade”… that is about the most laughable statement I have ever heard. Sorry folks, but it is.

Ask yourself this: Why has it not yet been overturned? Presently there is a clear majority on the Supreme Court of “CATHOLICS”!! I believe the number is FIVE of the NINE Justices are CATHOLICS. This being the case…why has it not been overturned?

Simply put: The Supreme Court cannot overturn and earlier decision made by the Supreme Court. Supreme Court decisions are final. Thats why they call it the Supreme Court. If the present Supreme Court was to overturn any decision previously made by a previously sitting Supreme Court, I believe it would trigger a very serious constitutional crisis, and could lead to legal mayhem in this country.

If the present Supreme Court was to overturn Roe vs Wade, or any other decision made prior…it would signal to America that the Supreme Court is corrupt, for sale, and naught but a political tool to do the bidding of a select group. It would additionally lower and diminish the Supreme Court to the level of a redneck backwater good ole boy traffic court in Podunk where the sheriff, the deputies, and the judge come from the same branchless family tree.

The battle against abortion needs to be carried on educationally, and with prayer, and by setting examples…not with legislation. Time and time and time and again…it has been “proven beyond a shadow of a doubt” that morality cannot be legislated.

someone wasnt paying attention in civcs class … if the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, it would not be the first time they overturned a previous Supreme Court ruling … In the case of Brown v. Board of Education, the Supreme Court overturned the ruling of Plessy v. Ferguson … the same can happen in other cases … if the Supreme Court’s decision was always final and could never be changed, then mass chaos would result and injustices would have to be allowed because … things like segregated schools would still be in existence

 

[Jerusha]

Exactly. When the right case comes up, it will happen. Hopefully soon. Then laws can be enacted, state-by-state, gradually restricting abortion to the point it will no longer be a critical issue.

We are already simply waiting for that, so why should it be such a critical issue now?

We need to worry more now about religious freedom, racism, equity in education, poverty, war based on inadequate evidence, national health insurance, etc. The OTHER pro-life issues.

 

[vern_humphrey]

If the present Supreme Court was to overturn Roe vs Wade, or any other decision made prior…it would signal to America that the Supreme Court is corrupt, for sale, and naught but a political tool to do the bidding of a select group.

someone wasnt paying attention in civcs class … if the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, it would not be the first time they overturned a previous Supreme Court ruling … In the case of Brown v. Board of Education, the Supreme Court overturned the ruling of Plessy v. Ferguson … the same can happen in other cases … if the Supreme Court’s decision was always final and could never be changed, then mass chaos would result and injustices would have to be allowed because … things like segregated schools would still be in existence

I’m always amazed when someone who is identified as Catholic and pro-life says something like that.

On the other hand, the Supreme Court used the 14th Amendment in deciding abortion was legal. Here’s the first section of that amendment:

Amendment XIV

Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Note the bolded words. For the court to use this amendment to find abortion a “right” seems a clear signal to America that the Supreme Court is corrupt, for sale, and naught but a political tool to do the bidding of a select group.

 

[vern_humphrey]

We are already simply waiting for that, so why should it be such a critical issue now?
.

It is our duty to do more than wait.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Exactly. When the right case comes up, it will happen. Hopefully soon. Then laws can be enacted, state-by-state, gradually restricting abortion to the point it will no longer be a critical issue.

We are already simply waiting for that, so why should it be such a critical issue now?

We need to worry more now about religious freedom, racism, equity in education, poverty, war based on inadequate evidence, national health insurance, etc. The OTHER pro-life issues.

Since the race can still be lost it is even more important now to make sure we get to the finish line. Every time a person quits before they win makes it even hared to win the next time. It is called operant conditioning.

 

[hasikelee]

Although I’ve met some Catholics with odd beliefs regarding abortion, by far those Catholics who vote prochoice seem to be misinformed in politics and not their faith.

For example, a girl I know who voted for a staunchly pro-abortion candidate did so because she votes a straight ticket and not because of pro-choice reasons.

I find after the person learns of their mistake, they might even try to pretend they meant to do it rather than feel the guilt of voting for someone prochoice.

 

[johnlal]

Do you honstly believe that if we had 9 pro-abortion judges on the supreme court of the USA that we ould not have been attacked? Please ive your reasoning.

No. I believe that if he had any administration other than the Bush Administration, our chances likely would have been greater on 9/11.

 

[vern_humphrey]

No. I believe that if he had any administration other than the Bush Administration, our chances likely would have been greater on 9/11.

And you base that on the previous administration’s ability to prevent the attack on the USS Cole, the bombing of the World Trade Center, the simultaneous attacks on the US embassies in Africa and so on?

 

[aristotle]

But if all life is the same, you to to prison for swatting a mosquito.

Only if we assume our prison system is harsh. It could also be that no one goes to jail for shooting humans.

Different animals are clearly worth more in US legal system. Some are endangered, and so protected by law, and some aren’t. It seems as though the value of animals is inversely related to the number alive now. State flowers get legal protection.

Some are taller than others, some are more talented. But all are equal in their basic humanity and of equal worth.

I suppose on this point we will have to agree to disagree.

I do not think all humans are of equal worth.

 

[Amolibri]

We need to worry more now about religious freedom, racism, equity in education, poverty, war based on inadequate evidence, national health insurance, etc. The OTHER pro-life issues.

AGREED. We must not ignore these issues.

Aristotle…you don’t believe that all human beings have an equal right to life…or just that all humans are not of equal worth?? If not of equal worth then I would say you have reason to be in favor of the death penalty.
IMO, those who profess that all human life is of equal worth (as mr. humphrey has stated:“But all are equal in their basic humanity and of equal worth.”)

…and then favor the state’s killing any human, is hypocrisy.
www.cacp.org

 

[vern_humphrey]

Only if we assume our prison system is harsh. It could also be that no one goes to jail for shooting humans.

It could be that alien luncheaters from the planet Zolgarsh are coming up your front steps right now. But they aren’t.

Different animals are clearly worth more in US legal system. Some are endangered, and so protected by law, and some aren’t. It seems as though the value of animals is inversely related to the number alive now. State flowers get legal protection.

But different people are not worth more. Murdering a homeless street person carries the same penalty as murdering the mayor.

I do not think all humans are of equal worth.

Then you would have no objection if you were the victim of an accident and someone decided your worth was zero and refused you medical treatment?

Now, that’s not a flip statement – think about it a moment. If things are as you describe, the decision about worth must be made by someone else. You have no (name removed by moderator)ut into the valuation of your life. And no appeal.

 

[Amolibri]

But different people are not worth more. Murdering a homeless street person carries the same penalty as murdering the mayor.

Really??? In theory only, sir. …and also depending on who the offender is, and his/her access to good legal representation… what kind of fairyland do YOU live in

 

[vern_humphrey]

Really??? In theory only, sir. …and also depending on who the offender is, and his/her access to good legal representation… what kind of fairyland do YOU live in

What’s your point here? Can you show me a law that says a powerful, influential man is worth more than the homeless person? If you can’t, then I am right.

Now if your point is that justice is not always perfect, then no one would disagree with you – but how would that make me wrong?

 

[Amolibri]

What’s your point here? Can you show me a law that says a powerful, influential man is worth more than the homeless person? If you can’t, then I am right.

Now if your point is that justice is not always perfect, then no one would disagree with you – but how would that make me wrong?

I repeat: In theory only, sir
Heaven forbid you should be found wrong!!!

 

[vern_humphrey]

I repeat: In theory only, sir Heaven forbid you should be found wrong!!!

Calm down, me lad. Take a deep breath.

And help me out here – are you arguing that all humans should be of equal worth, or that all humans should not be of equal worth?

 

[KathleenElsie]

What’s your point here? Can you show me a law that says a powerful, influential man is worth more than the homeless person? If you can’t, then I am right.

Now if your point is that justice is not always perfect, then no one would disagree with you – but how would that make me wrong?

You know I usually agree with you. And I personally know that all human life is equal pre-born and born. But our crazy legal system how has some people “worth” more not because of their ability to to do good etc. But because they fall under the “protected” laws. Hate crimes comes to mind.

I honestly feel that the unborn human child is one of the most endangered species on God’s earth. The homeless man is just as loved by God as the most saintly person. God does not discriminate.

 

[KathleenElsie]

It could be that alien luncheaters from the planet Zolgarsh are coming up your front steps right now. But they aren’t. Now wait a min Vern it seems like these creatures have beenin my garden this week munching on my tomatos. So are you sure they arn’t here.

But different people are not worth more. Murdering a homeless street person carries the same penalty as murdering the mayor. It is unfortinate but if a hate crime is declared in eather persn case then the murder falls under Federal Law. The penalties become more severe in many cases.

Then you would have no objection if you were the victim of an accident and someone decided your worth was zero and refused you medical treatment?

Now, that’s not a flip statement – think about it a moment. If things are as you describe, the decision about worth must be made by someone else. You have no (name removed by moderator)ut into the valuation of your life. And no appeal.

Justice is not always fair. But final justice is in God’s hands.

 

[vern_humphrey]

You know I usually agree with you. And I personally know that all human life is equal pre-born and born. But our crazy legal system how has some people “worth” more not because of their ability to to do good etc. But because they fall under the “protected” laws. Hate crimes comes to mind.

Yes – I have often asked how “hate crime” squares with the Equal Protection clause of the 14th Amendment

But showing the system has flaws doesn’t mean a flawed system is good.

I honestly feel that the unborn human child is one of the most endangered species on God’s earth. The homeless man is just as loved by God as the most saintly person. God does not discriminate.

And nor should we.

 

[Amolibri]

Really??? In theory only, sir. …and also depending on who the offender is, and his/her access to good legal representation…
What part of the above don’t you understand?

1. I have no need of calming…I would advise you, perhaps, to pull in your claws… being “right” is NOT the be-all and the end-all. Take a break, vern.
2. I am not arguing ANYthing. I am agreeing with you on your premise IN THE THEORY of our present system. YES, they SHOULD be equal. But ARE they or are they NOT?? This is not how we actually experience this ideal in our legal system…that’s the unjust part. Got it? Please don’t make everything a matter of who’s right & who’s wrong.

I take this to the conclusion of being against the state taking anyone’s life…for punishment or retribution…etc.
www.cacp.org
ENJOY the weekend!!

 

[vern_humphrey]

Really??? In theory only, sir. …and also depending on who the offender is, and his/her access to good legal representation…
What part of the above don’t you understand?

I don’t understand how it applies to the discussion.

Are you saying that a difference between theory and practice means we ought to change the theory? That doing injustice means we should do injustice?

1. I have no need of calming…I would advise you, perhaps, to pull in your claws… being “right” is NOT the be-all and the end-all. Take a break, vern.

I’m not the one who’s posting in colors or in caps.

1. I am not arguing ANYthing. I am agreeing with you on your premise IN THE THEORY of our present system. YES, they SHOULD be equal. But ARE they or are they NOT?? This is not how we actually experience this ideal in our legal system…that’s the unjust part. Got it? Please don’t make everything a matter of who’s right & who’s wrong.

I already pointed out that our human-run system is not perfect.

I take this to the conclusion of being against the state taking anyone’s life…for punishment or retribution…etc.
www.cacp.org
ENJOY the weekend!!

I have never supported takintg life for retribiution – only in individual or collective self-defense.