Pro-Choice folks, what are your reasons for supporting abortion?

[marietta]

neat62:

Your posts are utterly devoid of love.

marietta

 

[neat62]

neat62:

Your posts are utterly devoid of love.

marietta

LOL! That’s funny coming from one who has done nothing but posted these kind of comments while support the horror of abortion!

 

[MIZER]

Vern Humphrey,

I’m looking and looking for the quote I assigned to you. I apologize to the depths and breadth my soul can reach for mis-quoting you. I hope you will forgive me. It is such as you, a decorated veteran, who I hold in such great esteem that prompted my harsh response in 725.

Whoever did make this comment:

including pregnant women gunned down for sport by US paid Pinochet thugs

you have my disdain.

Vern Humphrey,

I’m very sorry.

 

[marietta]

mdr:

In most cases the embryo has grown into a fetus, to which I have referred in several previous posts, so I honestly don’t believe I’ve sidestepped that issue. Sometimes, as in a hydatidiform, or molar, pregnancy, the tissue which is aspirated is an overgrowth of placenta which mimics a pregnancy, although this is rare. So for the purpose of clarity I will again state that I understand and concur that the “entity” within the uterus of the woman is a developing, living human being.

As far as supporting laws which forbid and penalize the destruction of nesting or gestating endangered animals, say, spotted owls or bald eagles: I understand the parallel here but feel that, no matter whether laws are in place or not, there will always be people who choose to circumvent them. And in the case of abortion, there is currently no law in this country which forbids a woman to have an abortion (up to 20 weeks in some places and 24 weeks in Kansas). This is where your parallel divides. So we are back to the matter of choice and individual conscience.

By the way, nowhere in any of my posts have I declared that I endorse abortion. I have only said that I support a woman’s right to choose to have or not to have an abortion, and that my opinion on the matter of her choice is null, void and immaterial. Abortion is a profoundly sad process, one which can linger for the lifetime of the mother. It most definitely hits with significant mental, psychological and spiritual impact, as it should. Few women have their fetuses aspirated at 1:00 p.m. and are in the nail salon at 3:00 p.m. Abortion does not leave a mother unchanged, except those who are so ignorant as to use it as their regular form of birth control.

I appreciate your sensible and thoughtful approach here; I guess we must just agree to disagree on some of the points of this subject.

neat62:

I do not support the horror of abortion. I support the individual mother’s legal right to choose to have or not to have an abortion. And your opinion on the decision that any woman makes in pregnancy carries no more weight than mine.

marietta

 

[vern_humphrey]

Vern Humphrey,

I’m looking and looking for the quote I assigned to you. I apologize to the depths and breadth my soul can reach for mis-quoting you. I hope you will forgive me. It is such as you, a decorated veteran, who I hold in such great esteem that prompted my harsh response in 725.

Whoever did make this comment:

you have my disdain.

Vern Humphrey,

I’m very sorry.

Thank you. Spoken like a gentleman.

There is only one person on this thread that I know who has used the expression “pinochet thugs.” That person is also prone to throw smears of incest at other debaters.

 

[KathleenElsie]

I have some solutions:

Wait until one is married to have sex–then, should conception occur, it is done so in a loving committed relationship.

In the rare instance that a child is created from a hidious act such as rape/incest --accept it for what it is --a beautiful life created from a heinous crime. Murdering the child will not change the fact that the crime was committed. Yet something beautiful can come of the crime --life.

Educate people on what abortion really is. Show photos of aborted babies at 8, 10, 12, 17 weeks.

 

[MIZER]

I found it!!!

Originally Posted by SoCalRC
So when you stand in judgement and the hundreds of thousands of dead because of Iraq, including pregnant women gunned down for sport by US paid Pinochet thugs are facing you, will your defense be ‘Yes, I supported that, but look at how I voted on abortion! Sure, it didn’t actually stop any abortions, and well, yeah, technically I voted in favor of some abortions but…’

How fortunate that your political truth and your spiritual truth are so perfectly aligned…

Again, Vern Humphrey,

I am so sorry to have attributed this comment about soldiers gunning for sport, to you. I see you had quoted SoCalRc in one of your resonses.

Everyone,

SoCalRC made this attrocious statement about our soldiers, men and women who are presently putting their own lives at risk to protect us all and our way of life, in an effort to support certain voting practices.

I said Vern Humphrey made this statement, I was wrong. I was too hurried in submitting my reply and in my anger at the statement I didn’t take enough care in discerning the post.

Vern has stated he is a decorated veteran.

Vern Humphrey, please accept my humble thank you for your service and likewise my appology for mis-representing you.

Helen,
airforce brat

 

[vern_humphrey]

I found it!!!

Again, Vern Humphrey,

I am so sorry to have attributed this comment about soldiers gunning for sport, to you. I see you had quoted SoCalRc in one of your resonses.

Everyone,

SoCalRC made this attrocious statement about our soldiers, men and women who are presently putting their own lives at risk to protect us all and our way of life, in an effort to support certain voting practices.

I said Vern Humphrey made this statement, I was wrong. I was too hurried in submitting my reply and in my anger at the statement I didn’t take enough care in discerning the post.

Vern has stated he is a decorated veteran.

Vern Humphrey, please accept my humble thank you for your service and likewise my appology for mis-representing you.

Helen,
airforce brat

Again, thank you, Helen.

 

[MIZER]

SoCalRC,

This is for you!

You should be ashamed of yourself and eliminated by the forum moderator for this one:

including pregnant women gunned down for sport by US paid Pinochet thugs

This sort of comment has no place in America, let alone on a Christian forum or website. What a coward you are. I dare you to stand before one of our fine men or women in uniform or before the parents of one of our fallen soldiers and make such a disgusting comment. You should be flogged.

My typing can’t begin to express my outrage. Anyone else share my abhorrence for this written abomination? Disgraceful!!!

 

[Fitswimmer]

SoCalRC,

This is for you!

You should be ashamed of yourself and eliminated by the forum moderator for this one:

This sort of comment has no place in America, let alone on a Christian forum or website. What a coward you are. I dare you to stand before one of our fine men or women in uniform or before the parents of one of our fallen soldiers and make such a disgusting comment. You should be flogged.

My typing can’t begin to express my outrage. Anyone else share my abhorrence for this written abomination? Disgraceful!!!

I abhor the killing of pregnant women, no matter who is paying the thugs that kill them. It hurts my heart when the money comes from my tax dollars.

To mischaracterize the statement to make it an attack on our soldiers is a typical deflection that only shows a lack of understanding of the situation. No US soldier fired the guns in the Pinochet situation, but our tax dollars paid for the bullets.

 

[Catholic_Kat]

Thanks, KathleenElsie for seconding my ideas about how to prevent abortions. I normally don’t get involved in heated debates on this blog site, but when I see a post by someone who says they are personally against abortion but still believe it’s someone elses right to choose…it burns me up inside. That’s like saying, “I’m personally against child abuse, but if my neighbor beats/abuses her children, I won’t turn her in to the police.”

I wish everyone would read Fr. Frank Pavone’s book, “Ending Abortion.” It would really help people understand that in turning away and keeping our mouths shut about abortion, we are, no matter how much we are personally against it, condoning it.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Thanks, KathleenElsie for seconding my ideas about how to prevent abortions. I normally don’t get involved in heated debates on this blog site, but when I see a post by someone who says they are personally against abortion but still believe it’s someone elses right to choose…it burns me up inside. That’s like saying, “I’m personally against child abuse, but if my neighbor beats/abuses her children, I won’t turn her in to the police.”

I wish everyone would read Fr. Frank Pavone’s book, “Ending Abortion.” It would really help people understand that in turning away and keeping our mouths shut about abortion, we are, no matter how much we are personally against it, condoning it.

If we do that, we are like the Germans, who saw the cattle-cars of starving, brutalized Jews roll through their cities, could see and smell the smoke from the crematoria – and “had no idea” of what was happening.

 

[Catholic_Kat]

That is very true.

By the way, Fr. Frank Pavone, who I mentioned earlier, is the person Norma McCorvey (the Jane Roe of Roe v. Wade) credits with converting her to Catholicism. Most people do not know that the Jane Roe of Roe v. Wade sorely regrets her decision to abort her own child and more important, she regrets her case ever making abortion legal. She now fights to see an end to ALL abortions.

Way to go, Fr. Frank Pavone!!! Once again, his book is called, Ending Abortion.

 

[SoCalRC]

SoCalRC made this attrocious statement about our soldiers, men and women who are presently putting their own lives at risk to protect us all and our way of life, in an effort to support certain voting practices.

You need to work on your reading and comprehension skills, as well as your knowledge of current events. I was referring to the investiation into Blackwater, a private contractor which, among other things, was providing security to the State Department.

The incidents that I was referring to were exposed in sworn testimony to congress and confirmed in material evidence. The State Department arranged for ‘hush money’ to be paid to the victims families.

Why this would have anything to do with Vern’s service is a mystery to me. Though, for what it is worth, I volunteered and served two tours in Vietnam as a combat medic, most of it with the Walking Dead, which sustained the highest KIA ratio of any bat in USMC history. I was wounded multiple times and still carry large bone fragments from another human being in my body.

Because of that experience, my wife and I have contributed significant time and money to getting helmet liners and proper body armor to the troops in Iraq since we first head that they were under equipped. We also started a foundation to help get these veterens supplemental medical care. Both these activities, by the way, would not be nec if it were not for the reprehensible conduct of people Vern politically supports.

 

[SoCalRC]

This sort of comment has no place in America, let alone on a Christian forum or website. What a coward you are. I dare you to stand before one of our fine men or women in uniform or before the parents of one of our fallen soldiers and make such a disgusting comment. You should be flogged.

And this is the sort of comment that helps me understand why we cannot get any legitimately pro life representation. If you are ignorant of what your government does, how can you stop it?

 

[Fitswimmer]

You need to work on your reading and comprehension skills, as well as your knowledge of current events. I was referring to the investiation into Blackwater, a private contractor which, among other things, was providing security to the State Department.

The incidents that I was referring to were exposed in sworn testimony to congress and confirmed in material evidence. The State Department arranged for ‘hush money’ to be paid to the victims families.

Why this would have anything to do with Vern’s service is a mystery to me. Though, for what it is worth, I volunteered and served two tours in Vietnam as a combat medic, most of it with the Walking Dead, which sustained the highest KIA ratio of any bat in USMC history. I was wounded multiple times and still carry large bone fragments from another human being in my body.

Because of that experience, my wife and I have contributed significant time and money to getting helmet liners and proper body armor to the troops in Iraq since we first head that they were under equipped. We also started a foundation to help get these veterens supplemental medical care. Both these activities, by the way, would not be nec if it were not for the reprehensible conduct of people Vern politically supports.

Thank God for people like you who are willing and able to provide funds so that our soldiers have the equipment to protect them. It is a crime that these young people were sent into combat without proper planning and preparation.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Hi Marietta,

I just wanted to comment on something. To paraphrase, you said something to the effect that you didn’t condone abortion, but that you couldn’t make that choice for anyone else. I can understand that line of thinking, because I once thought the same way.

“I could never have an abortion…but I can’t imagine having to decide for someone else.” was how I thought.

Well, I’ve come to understand that the abortion decision is not something that effects only the woman–some type of panacea that makes her life better. Abortion is telling God, “Hey you are wrong, you are not the Lord the Giver of life, It’s my body and I cannot listen to you right now.”

When I was pregnant with my first beautiful child, I knew even before I was late that I was pregnant. My entire body changed in some subtle and some not so subtle ways to protect the life within. My sense of smell became so acute, I couldn’t even ride the subway because the smell of someone’s perfume would make me ill. These changes were there to protect my baby. My body recognized that the baby was to be protected.

As the pregnancy progressed, I was amazed at all the developmental stages. Things you read about in bio class that were abstract became real and tangible. My baby’s heartbeat was
a beautiful, beautiful sound. The few seconds it took to find it always seemed like an eternity…But I heard it loud and strong before 12 weeks. And at every subsequent doctor’s visit. I had a sonogram at 16 weeks ( a time frame where abortion is legal and common by the way). My little baby was completely formed, I have the sonogram picture still, and his face is the same now as it was several years ago. The first contact I had with him was this rapid fluttery feeling at about 15 weeks. It was hiccups! His bodily functions were that advanced that he could have hiccups. He had hiccups the entire time on and off. He still gets them.

One early morning, after he was born. I was changing him and he made eye contact with me. This little tiny, helpless person looked at me and I cried. I cried with the realization that this beautiful little baby was alive because I “chose” him to be alive. He had no legal protection at all, none. For whatever reason I wanted, I could have ended his life…and he wouldn’t have been there on the changing table, making eye contact with his mommy. For the record, I never considered aborting my son.

But in the city where I lived, 50% of the babies conceived when
my son was conceived did not make it. I can’t believe that all of these babies are not my business. I can’t believe that all those women were in these absolutely dreadful positions, that giving birth was not a possibility. I cannot understand, how could their lives have been made better by ending the life of their child.

 

[SoCalRC]

Thank God for people like you who are willing and able to provide funds so that our soldiers have the equipment to protect them. It is a crime that these young people were sent into combat without proper planning and preparation.

Thank you for the kind words, but the thank you actually makes me feel a little guilty. I was undoubtedly being a little boastful in reaction to my own anger at Mizer’s post.

But I actually understand Mizer’s outrage, I just think it is sadly misdirected. I volunteered and served in a war I did not support, so I know at least something about balancing obligations to country and faith.

The Bible I carried, and which is a foot away from my keyboard as I type this, is unusuable. Part of those stains is the blood of a Medal of Honor recipient, who showed unbelievable courage in getting men out of a ****storm and back to where we could treat them. So I also know at least a little about the sacrifices soldiers make.

I think that the problem is similiar to the one we have on pro-life issues. We simply dumb down the meaning of supporting the troops until it is nothing but another political tool.

To me, Blackwater, and the privitization of war in general, is horrible for the troops. Think of the hate and resentment those thugs tactics created in the population at large. It is almost certain that some of that resentment was converted into the death and/or injury of US troops. Likewise, look at what else greed has given us, troops served rancid food and tainted water, or asked to fight with case after case of defective munitions.

To me, cutting taxes for the first time in US history is not ‘supporting the troops’. It is financially molesting their grandchildren.

Similiarly, fighting on the cheap, where US military personel forage in trash dumps for scraps to uparmor their own vehicles, is not ‘supporting the troops’.

Letting soldiers who have made horrific physical sacrifices languish in filth and squalor is not ‘supporting the troops’.

A backdoor draft, where thousands are asked to sacrifice above and beyond because of Stop Loss, is not ‘supporting the troops’.

Deploying personel who are so injured that they cannot even wear body armor is not ‘supporting the troops’.

Extending deployments, and then actively seeking to minimize expenditures on the tens of thousands of cases of PTSD is not ‘supporting the troops’.

Resisting meaningful GI benefits because financial desperation will keep retention rates up is not ‘supporting the troops’.

I could go on and on, but, somehow, we have brought that argument down to flag pins and empty testosterone based rhetoric. Likewise, we have reached the point where ‘pro life’ is a politician who makes a timid 11th hour converstion to overturning Roe and still argues that some abortions must be legal… : :

 

[vern_humphrey]

Thank you for the kind words, but the thank you actually makes me feel a little guilty. I was undoubtedly being a little boastful in reaction to my own anger at Mizer’s post.

But I actually understand Mizer’s outrage, I just think it is sadly misdirected. I volunteered and served in a war I did not support, so I know at least something about balancing obligations to country and faith.

The Bible I carried, and which is a foot away from my keyboard as I type this, is unusuable. Part of those stains is the blood of a Medal of Honor recipient, who showed unbelievable courage in getting men out of a ****storm and back to where we could treat them. So I also know at least a little about the sacrifices soldiers make.

I think that the problem is similiar to the one we have on pro-life issues. We simply dumb down the meaning of supporting the troops until it is nothing but another political tool.

To me, Blackwater, and the privitization of war in general, is horrible for the troops. Think of the hate and resentment those thugs tactics created in the population at large. It is almost certain that some of that resentment was converted into the death and/or injury of US troops. Likewise, look at what else greed has given us, troops served rancid food and tainted water, or asked to fight with case after case of defective munitions.

To me, cutting taxes for the first time in US history is not ‘supporting the troops’. It is financially molesting their grandchildren.

Similiarly, fighting on the cheap, where US military personel forage in trash dumps for scraps to uparmor their own vehicles, is not ‘supporting the troops’.

Letting soldiers who have made horrific physical sacrifices languish in filth and squalor is not ‘supporting the troops’.

A backdoor draft, where thousands are asked to sacrifice above and beyond because of Stop Loss, is not ‘supporting the troops’.

Deploying personel who are so injured that they cannot even wear body armor is not ‘supporting the troops’.

Extending deployments, and then actively seeking to minimize expenditures on the tens of thousands of cases of PTSD is not ‘supporting the troops’.

Resisting meaningful GI benefits because financial desperation will keep retention rates up is not ‘supporting the troops’.

I could go on and on, but, somehow, we have brought that argument down to flag pins and empty testosterone based rhetoric. Likewise, we have reached the point where ‘pro life’ is a politician who makes a timid 11th hour converstion to overturning Roe and still argues that some abortions must be legal… : :

Tell us how you use a helmet liner with a PASGT helmet.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Thank you for the kind words, but the thank you actually makes me feel a little guilty. I was undoubtedly being a little boastful in reaction to my own anger at Mizer’s post.

But I actually understand Mizer’s outrage, I just think it is sadly misdirected. I volunteered and served in a war I did not support, so I know at least something about balancing obligations to country and faith.

The Bible I carried, and which is a foot away from my keyboard as I type this, is unusuable. Part of those stains is the blood of a Medal of Honor recipient, who showed unbelievable courage in getting men out of a ****storm and back to where we could treat them. So I also know at least a little about the sacrifices soldiers make.

I think that the problem is similiar to the one we have on pro-life issues. We simply dumb down the meaning of supporting the troops until it is nothing but another political tool.

To me, Blackwater, and the privitization of war in general, is horrible for the troops. Think of the hate and resentment those thugs tactics created in the population at large. It is almost certain that some of that resentment was converted into the death and/or injury of US troops. Likewise, look at what else greed has given us, troops served rancid food and tainted water, or asked to fight with case after case of defective munitions.

To me, cutting taxes for the first time in US history is not ‘supporting the troops’. It is financially molesting their grandchildren.

Similiarly, fighting on the cheap, where US military personel forage in trash dumps for scraps to uparmor their own vehicles, is not ‘supporting the troops’.

Letting soldiers who have made horrific physical sacrifices languish in filth and squalor is not ‘supporting the troops’.

A backdoor draft, where thousands are asked to sacrifice above and beyond because of Stop Loss, is not ‘supporting the troops’.

Deploying personel who are so injured that they cannot even wear body armor is not ‘supporting the troops’.

Extending deployments, and then actively seeking to minimize expenditures on the tens of thousands of cases of PTSD is not ‘supporting the troops’.

Resisting meaningful GI benefits because financial desperation will keep retention rates up is not ‘supporting the troops’.

I could go on and on, but, somehow, we have brought that argument down to flag pins and empty testosterone based rhetoric. Likewise, we have reached the point where ‘pro life’ is a politician who makes a timid 11th hour converstion to overturning Roe and still argues that some abortions must be legal… : :

Not to mention the dramatic increase in suicides among service members…that saddens me beyond expression.