Pro-Choice folks, what are your reasons for supporting abortion?

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We are bound by some teachings of the Old Testament (e.g. Ten Commandments), but many of the restrictions (e.g. dietary) and punishments (e.g. stoning) don’t apply. The New Covenant in some ways calls for a stricter understanding of morality.

In the Old Testament Adultery was a sin. In the New Testament it is still a sin, but so is lust; however, we don’t stone adulterers.

Also, as I mentioned in the sota responses, you have to separate God’s just punishment of mankind from His expectations from us. If He commanded the Israelites to do some nasty things to others as part of His justice, we aren’t in a position to say, “well God did it, so I guess it’s okay for us to do it.”
Robert,

you’re a smart guy. If you give a woman a bitter drink strong enough to abort a fetus, do you see much need for God’s intervention in the matter?

And you can’t really be saying that God would hurt an unborn child simply because it was conceived out of wedlock, can you?

Because that to me would sound like the height of hypocrisy.
 
Yes, MIZER, I’m following these posts with fascination and find it highly amusing that there are those among you who believe I may have assumed another persona through whom I might offer another pro-choice argument. Contrary to your suspicions, I appear as a singular voice through these thousand posts and I have maintained my position throughout, much to the consternation of so many of you.

Who needs to see these graphic pictures, and to what end? Are you trying to consolidate your voting block? That makes the target audience of voting age. Are you trying to “educate” young men and women of reproductive age? Then you need to be targeting children approximately ages 12 and over. Why would a pre-school aged child, or one who is not of reproductive age, need to view these pictures? You have no way of knowing the maturity or psychological status of these children. Most pre-school kids are still fairly naive about sex and violence as it may apply to them in their lives (and yes, this is considering all media barrages and all sour family situations which may be influencing them).

It has been demonstrated here today that this particular group of pro-life people is passionate about the lives of the unborn and yet not particularly interested in the nurturing and wellbeing of them after they are born. They seek to deny anyone a choice in his or her own reproductive life, and then also, apparently, apply this no-choice edict with a great suffocating power to the way we raise our children, when we should disseminate information to them with regard to sex education, wellness and morality. This rabid approach to forcing strangers, including little children, to view, to question, to swallow and digest images of the products of conception denies and dismisses any choice we as parents have in determining when the time is right to discuss these matters privately with our own kids. The argument that a pre-schooler needs to suck it up and dig the real world is unconscionable.

Why expose anyone to these pictures? Are you trying to inform them? Are you trying to sway them? Are you trying to get women in particular to understand what they are considering?

In the words of MIZER, post #1166: "We each get to choose. We have our rights."

Welcome to the pro-choice, side, babe.

marietta
 
One of the reasons pro-choicers support abortion is because society, which follows the spirit of the antichrist, believes that unborn babies are not human beings; they’re just objects, things.

Oh wait, I’m sorry, society dosen’t believe in the spirit of the antichrist or in the devil or in any of that “religious mumbo jumbo”. So I guess I should have said, “Society believes that unborn babies are not human beings; they’re just objects, things”.

No, no, wait, that’s wrong too! Society can’t be wrong. It must be…people! Yes, that’s it. So what I should have said was, “People believe that unborn babies are not human beings; they’re just objects, things.”

Hold on, that’s wrong as well! People aren’t in error. It’s…certain individuals. Ah, yes, that’s it! It’s certain individuals who believe that unborn babies are not human beings; they’re just objects, things.

rolls eyes Man will do anything to get rid of responsibility and guilt. Especially when it comes to innocent life.
Different societies have conferred personhood on human beings at different times. I believe ancient Israelites conferred personhood on a person fairly late. Something like a month or two after birth, I believe.
 
That’s why the pericope is presented in an “either-or” format. If the child dies, the transgressor must pay the penalty.

Some but not all of the 613 laws of the Old Testament are no longer in effect. Others are not.

For example, we can eat ham. We cannot murder our neighbors.
Vern:

Since when can we eat ham?

Why didn’t anybody tell me? I read my old Testament, and I’ve stayed away from that stuff for years.

I’m going to go out and get some right now.
 
Abortion and the abortion pics ARE inappropriate. The only reason that you are saying that I am not pro-life is because I don’t agree with graphic images. Read the other thread more carefully.
Alright carjack, if I get some time later I will go over the thread mapleoak posted your comment from.

Suppose you address calling the website disgusting. Suppose you address the fact that you will not be reasonable and admit that no one is “shoving the pictures into the faces of preschoolers” and that the pro-lifers on this board are defending that action.

The pictures do have a place. If you are pro-life then you would be for the appropriate use of any and every possible tool we may use to turn others to the side of LIFE. You would recognize the difference between the horrendous act and the picture that may dipict that act. You make no distinction. That lack of a distinction in your mind, makes me suspicious. When I add that to the violent tone you have taken here, along with the things you have said, I conclude that you resemble, the pro-abort people I know more than the pro-life people I know.

Pro-lifers wouldn’t call someone a terrorist for example for pointing out the fact that showing a picture of abortion to a pro-abort is like throwing holy water on Satan. Like Satan would do at being so burned, the pro-abort individual will lash out. And you lashed out. Calling the pro-lifers on this board who might appropriately use pictures in thier work, EXTREME AND TERRORISTS. You resort to something that is a depiction of violence. That’s what pro-aborts do. They resort to violence in an effort to prop up the violence they defend. Pro-lifers need police protection to exercise their right of free speech because of this.

You have said that even the appropriate use of the pictures is extreme. They are not. No change can be effected as long as people are able to deny that an injustice is occuring. Pictures have historically been used to end injustice. People deny the haulocaust, until they see the pictures. People deny genocide in other parts of the world, until they see the pictures. People deny that a child dies when a woman chooses abortion, until they see the picutures. Without the pictures, people will stay in denial. Without the pictures hearts and minds will stay hardened and closed.

How many words have we wasted on this thread talking to Marrietta? Have they had even an inkling of an effect on her? NO! She hides behind words. She hides behind the word CHOICE. If we were really the extreme terrorists you say we are then we would be aborting her. We are not. We are not even advocating that we should have that right, unlike the other side which insists that the right to kill is in the constitution.

It is not terroism to show someone a truth in the only way we can which makes it impossible for them to deny that truth. You are mistaken in your belief that children (en masse) are being traumatized by this and even if they were, it would be a small price to pay if it saved just the number of babies that have been killed, today, Thursday of this first week in June, in America alone, in the time it took me to type this out. The number is in the hundreds.

You can prove to me that you went to the web-site and looked at anything other than the homepage. Suppose you describe just one of the GAP signs for me. There are more than a dozen. You choose which one. Prove yourself here, if you are so intent on having us believe you. Right now, I don’t.
 
SFTor,

You are wrong:
Here’s why: I believe that every pro-lifer on this thread derives his or her morals from the Bible. It is therefore directly pertinent to bring up the fact what the Bible says on the topic. Numbers 5 seems to PRESCRIBE abortions.
Please don’t tell me you don’t see the point.
You are on a Catholic Website. In as much as we follow the Bible, it says we are to hear the Church and that is what we do. We don’t “get our morals” from the Bible, we get our morals from The Church. Do you care to quote the Catholic Church’s teaching on the topic?
 
This moral wrong should never be a constitutional right is a slogan to one. Changing face of choice is another. bad choice another. That web site you gave me has disgusting pictures of dispicable acts. I still don’t agree with the picture method. I don’t have to prove my affiliation to YOU or to ANYBODY else. I already stated that my stance is PROLIFE. If you don’t care to believe me, that is your perrogative.🤷 I don’t watch graphic movies and look at graphic pics. so I don’t appreciate people trying to force the “mass” of people to look at them.
 
I am not looking to fight with anyone. I don’t agree with the pics. That doesn’t make me a pro-abort. Using violence(in this case violent pics) to make a point about abortion is one thing. Calling other people names and still insisting that graphic pics are appropriate for everyone is a form of intimidation. Using violence to intimidate is a form of terrorism. Calling people terrorist is extreme. So if I hurt anyone’s feelings, I am sorry.
Carjack,

I’m the one you called a terrorist. It was me. And I take no offense because I know the assertion was made in the heat of passion. What we need is for that passion to be funneled into pro-life work. That will never happen as long as you continue to operate under the mis-guided impression that there is no appropriate use for the imagery.

I, in turn called you “pro-abort” in an effort to get you thinking. Am I typing in vain? Have you really studied the website and you still see no value in using the pictures? After everything that has been said here, are you still not changing your mind? Why isn’t that eviedence enough for you to see that words are meaningless when we are trying to educate someone and through that education, get them to change their mind about something. Why are you so stubbornly refusing to change your mind? I know why. It’s because you haven’t studied the website. You are still ignorant of the truth about this. GO TO THE WEBSITE! STUDY! LEARN! Then, maybe tomorrow, after you’ve spent tonight studying the website, come back here and tell us what you have learned about the appropriate use of pictures of genocide. I dare you carjack. Take my challange. JUST DO IT!
 
No mapleoak. You want people to look at things they don’t want to see? Well, you look at something you don’t want to see: your own Bible is prescribing abortion as a remedy against infidelity.

Hard for you to take?
I would feel more inclined to form a response if I knew who exactly was posting it.😉
 
No pro-lifer would object to the use of pictures if they are used appropriately and are shown to be effective in changing the minds of those who call themselves “pro-choice.”
I hold judgement as to the appropriate use of these images until I have had a chance to read the volumes sent me.

Don’t count me as for or against at this point.
 
Vern:

Since when can we eat ham?
Since Peter said we could.

Acts 10, 9-16
9 The next day, while they were on their way and nearing the city, Peter went up to the roof terrace to pray at about noontime.
10 He was hungry and wished to eat, and while they were making preparations he fell into a trance.
11 He saw heaven opened and something resembling a large sheet coming down, lowered to the ground by its four corners.
12 In it were all the earth’s four-legged animals and reptiles and the birds of the sky.
13 A voice said to him, “Get up, Peter. Slaughter and eat.”
14 But Peter said, “Certainly not, sir. For never have I eaten anything profane and unclean.”
15 The voice spoke to him again, a second time, “What God has made clean, you are not to call profane.”
16 This happened three times, and then the object was taken up into the sky.
Why didn’t anybody tell me? I read my old Testament, and I’ve stayed away from that stuff for years.
You should have read the New Testament, too.
I’m going to go out and get some right now.
Enjoy:thumbsup:
 
:bigyikes:
I just noticed something, we’re well over 1000 posts, aren’t threads only suppose to go to 1000?
Could someone start a new thread on this?
I would if I knew how, but…😊 I’m not that good at this yet.
Or should we just let this one die a natural death?
 
Robert,

you’re a smart guy. If you give a woman a bitter drink strong enough to abort a fetus, do you see much need for God’s intervention in the matter?

And you can’t really be saying that God would hurt an unborn child simply because it was conceived out of wedlock, can you?

Because that to me would sound like the height of hypocrisy.
I don’t know what the bitter drink that is being referenced is or if it would abort a fetus. I know only what the referenced rabbi’s teaching on it is - a guilty woman would become barren and an innocent would still be able to give birth even if she was barren. Sounds like God’s intervention to me. 🤷

Why does this concern you as an atheist? To you the whole thing is bunk, correct? If God was punishing unborn children conceived through sin, I already explained how that would not be hypocrisy.
 
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