Pro-Choice folks, what are your reasons for supporting abortion?

[kesa82]

Money, indeed is more important to some than someone ELSES life.

And for these reasons murder is acceptable? Sucking a babies brains out or scalding them in brine is okay because of a heavy tax burden? Bad personal choices justify tearing people limb from limb?

I rather think you should read it again. What part of, " I despise abortion " needs to be clarified ?
I think the point that I was making is that I see A LOT of people murdered, tortured, and ruined for A LOT of “reasons”.

Like when it is invariably said, " … they killed women and children. " - So it is fine and dandy to kill adult men? .
( that is certainly what their tone and facial expression clearly implies. IT DOES ! )
But the killing of women and children is a SPECIAL atrocity?
Hmmm, well, a rotting adult male corpse looks and smells the same to me as a childs corpse.

To clarify - maybe - ; it seems to me that much of the expressed concern for human life coming from EITHER SIDE is FEIGHNED.
i.e. they don’t really like human beings that much.
I admit for the SAKE OF HONESTY that I , for my part, typically and habitually prefer the company of dogs, trees, and cows to that of men.
But killing is killing - especially, I suspect, to the person being killed.
It all reminds me of George Orwell’s " Animal Farm" , when they wrote on the barn ; " ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL " - but then they added to it ; " - BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS. "

Oh well, it is very difficult to articulate skillfully when so much enchoate emotion is involved. I cannot. So I should quit.

Still, I rather suspect that you DO see what I’m implieing.

 

[kesa82]

I think you do have a personal stake in this issue, since this is your fellow neighbor who is being torn apart simply because as you so nicely put it they are more than a burden for you to care for.

QUOTE]

I must agree with this part. I was being rather generous to myself.

 

[mapleoak]

I do believe it’s wrong yes, but the thing that makes it problematic for me is that if you make abortion illegal, then that means you end up forcing women to give birth. And to me, that is equally as deplorable.

Women are not forced to give birth. It is a natural event commencing normal gestation. Ending someones life is a forced action. How on earth can a giving birth to new life be as deplorable as murder?

 

[mapleoak]

I rather think you should read it again. What part of, " I despise abortion " needs to be clarified ?
I think the point that I was making is that I see A LOT of people murdered, tortured, and ruined for A LOT of “reasons”.

What difference does it make if you despise something, but put forth no effort to end it, nor having any intentions in that direction?

To clarify - maybe - ; it seems to me that much of the expressed concern for human life coming from EITHER SIDE is FEIGHNED.

Nope. The concern for the unborn is genuine. The concern for ones own self interest at the expense of others lives is feigned because it is totally irrational.

i.e. they don’t really like human beings that much.
I admit for the SAKE OF HONESTY that I , for my part, typically and habitually prefer the company of dogs, trees, and cows to that of men.

:whacky:

But killing is killing - especially, I suspect, to the person being killed.

Of course it is. As long as you are not the one being murdered, all is well. As long as you are made to pay taxes, kill away.

It all reminds me of George Orwell’s " Animal Farm" , when they wrote on the barn ; " ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL " - but then they added to it ; " - BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS. "

Which animal are you? The one right that “some animals are more equal”?

Oh well, it is very difficult to articulate skillfully when so much enchoate emotion is involved. I cannot. So I should quit.

Someone else around here used the term ‘inchoate’ recently.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I’m sorry but I have many problems with abortion and cannot make my mind up on the matter. I do believe it’s wrong yes, but the thing that makes it problematic for me is that if you make abortion illegal, then that means you end up forcing women to give birth. And to me, that is equally as deplorable.

Giving birth is a consequence of getting pregnant, which in turn is a consequence of having sex. Since we don’t force women to have sex, we can hardly be accused of “forcing women to give birth.”

Imagine I go out, get drunk, get in my car and run over someone. And in my befuddled state I think, “That person is badly hurt. I will have to pay their medical expenses, and perhaps to support them for the rest of their lives.”

So I back over them and kill them. And if anyone objects, I say, “you are forcing me to care for that person.”

 

[st_lucy]

I’m sorry but I have many problems with abortion and cannot make my mind up on the matter. I do believe it’s wrong yes, but the thing that makes it problematic for me is that if you make abortion illegal, then that means you end up forcing women to give birth. And to me, that is equally as deplorable.

Now who is forcing these women to give birth? I have never heard of someone forcing another to give birth. Please explain yourself.

 

[vz71]

I’m sorry but I have many problems with abortion and cannot make my mind up on the matter. I do believe it’s wrong yes, but the thing that makes it problematic for me is that if you make abortion illegal, then that means you end up forcing women to give birth. And to me, that is equally as deplorable.

At what point did it become wrong to allow people to live with the consequences of their own actions?

No one has forced anything upon anybody.
With exception to rare instances of rape, pregnancy is the result of freely chosen actions.

It is now deplorable that someone should live with the consequences of their actions??
:ehh:

 

[Starwynd]

So making and enforcing legislation is allowing people to live with the consequences of their actions? That’s how people justify enforcing their morality now? Enforcing a moral code as legislation doesn’t allow people to do anything, but forces some people to behave how others want them to behave.

Using a softer language is a great way to hide the harshness of unpopular words.

Forcing women to give birth is not really any different than forcing them to get an abortion, to me at least.

And note, I am neither pro-choice nor pro-life yet, I have not made up my mind on the matter. I really just don’t understand how people can be so fixated on just one little part of the equation and ignore anything else that makes them feel uncomfortable. There are many aspects of this issue that makes me feel uncomfortable because all of it has problems and negative as well as unforeseen consequences.

 

[vern_humphrey]

So making and enforcing legislation is allowing people to live with the consequences of their actions? That’s how people justify enforcing their morality now? Enforcing a moral code as legislation doesn’t allow people to do anything, but forces some people to behave how others want them to behave.

Using a softer language is a great way to hide the harshness of unpopular words.

Forcing women to give birth is not really any different than forcing them to get an abortion, to me at least.

And note, I am neither pro-choice nor pro-life yet, I have not made up my mind on the matter. I really just don’t understand how people can be so fixated on just one little part of the equation and ignore anything else that makes them feel uncomfortable. There are many aspects of this issue that makes me feel uncomfortable because all of it has problems and negative as well as unforeseen consequences.

As I said earlier, suppose I, driving while drunk, run over someone, then decide to back over my victim so as to avoid having to take care of him, and then drive away so as to escape being arrested – would that be morally acceptable to you?

After all, all I’d be doing would be killing someone who was probably going to die of his injuries anyway. How dare people enforce their moral code on me!!

 

[st_lucy]

So making and enforcing legislation is allowing people to live with the consequences of their actions? That’s how people justify enforcing their morality now? Enforcing a moral code as legislation doesn’t allow people to do anything, but forces some people to behave how others want them to behave.

So again who is forcing women to give birth? You do understand what must happen for one to give birth right.

Using a softer language is a great way to hide the harshness of unpopular words.

I agree using a softer language is a great way to hide the harshness of unpopular words. For example abortion is a soft way to hide the unpopular word of brutal murder

Forcing women to give birth is not really any different than forcing them to get an abortion, to me at least.

Again how does one force one to give birth?

And note, I am neither pro-choice nor pro-life yet, I have not made up my mind on the matter. I really just don’t understand how people can be so fixated on just one little part of the equation and ignore anything else that makes them feel uncomfortable. There are many aspects of this issue that makes me feel uncomfortable because all of it has problems and negative as well as unforeseen consequences.

 

[hasikelee]

Forcing women to give birth is not really any different than forcing them to get an abortion, to me at least.
.

Hi Starwynd,

I had no comment on the rest of your post as it was personal opinion. But the above needs to be pointed out as scientifically and medically incorrect.

Pregnancy is a naturally occurring result of conception from sexual intercourse. Don’t worry about bringing up the old tale of rape; even very pro-abortion think tanks, such as the Guttmacher institute, report rape as a reason for abortion in less than/up to 1% of all abortions in America.

Delivery of the child is also a naturally occurring result of the body’s positive control mechanism. The body is designed for this action and will take this action unless the body has a defect or illness.

A procured abortion is an invasive surgical procedure. Excepting the newer forms of chemical abortions, this procedure seeks to forcefully open the cervix against its natural design and to kill the human within the uterus. This stops the body’s positive control mechanism.

Now, many people will argue that pregnancy has its dangerous complications. In fact, in American culture, it seems that pregnancy has a reputation of being a cruel, debilitating illness. Nevertheless, upon closer inspection of particular complications present during pregnancy, it is found that the complications are due to pre-existing genetic defects, health conditions (such as diabetes, anemia, obesity), poor diet, poor medical care, etc.

This is entirely different for procured abortions, where the risks and complications are an inherent aspect of the procedure itself, such as septic infection from leaving an arm or a leg in the uterus, accidentally ripping the uterine wall and damaging the intestines, not successfully killing the human, who is then born with handicaps, etc.

That being said, with our current healthcare system, perhaps the closest thing to a real argument to support your views is to say that pregnancy is much, much more expensive than a 1st trimester abortion.

(Of course, that is simply presenting another argument as plenty of people will then point out the enormous amount of assistance available to those who can’t afford medical care).

 

[allhers]

So making and enforcing legislation is allowing people to live with the consequences of their actions? That’s how people justify enforcing their morality now? Enforcing a moral code as legislation doesn’t allow people to do anything, but forces some people to behave how others want them to behave.

Using a softer language is a great way to hide the harshness of unpopular words.

Forcing women to give birth is not really any different than forcing them to get an abortion, to me at least.

And note, I am neither pro-choice nor pro-life yet, I have not made up my mind on the matter. I really just don’t understand how people can be so fixated on just one little part of the equation and ignore anything else that makes them feel uncomfortable. There are many aspects of this issue that makes me feel uncomfortable because all of it has problems and negative as well as unforeseen consequences.

I highlighted above your problem for you. See, I don’t ever hear anyone saying “…They forced me to have my baby”!!! However, I do often hear about women and teen-agers who do say that they were forced to abort their child. Now, if you don’t see the difference between letting a child LIVE and forcing someone to murder their pre-born child, then hey, think about it.

 

[kesa82]

What difference does it make if you despise something, but put forth no effort to end it, nor having any intentions in that direction?

Nope. The concern for the unborn is genuine. The concern for ones own self interest at the expense of others lives is feigned because it is totally irrational.

:whacky:

Of course it is. As long as you are not the one being murdered, all is well. As long as you are made to pay taxes, kill away.

Which animal are you? The one right that “some animals are more equal”?

Someone else around here used the term ‘inchoate’ recently.

It’s funny, really funny. I keep agreeing with you, and you keep disagreeing with my agreement. I’m in Alice’s wonderland.
Ok, I give up. I wuv you anyway. kiss kiss.

 

[leftistdestroye]

Starwynd;3647442]

Forcing women to give birth is not really any different than forcing them to get an abortion, to me at least.

LOL You seemed to have touched a nerve with this one, Statwynd, LOL

Here is why it is different.

Having an abortion, ends a life. Not having an abortion, condones life.

Do you value LIFE or the quality of life? Considering the main reasons are selfish ones.

 

[vz71]

So making and enforcing legislation is allowing people to live with the consequences of their actions? That’s how people justify enforcing their morality now?

It is interesting that you bring in morality and now acknowledge it as a different morality.
Of course, now you need to explain why legislation already written and enforced against murder should stay in place since we are legislating our morality upon other people.
It is a poor morality that condones murder.

Enforcing a moral code as legislation doesn’t allow people to do anything, but forces some people to behave how others want them to behave.

Right…
And some people need to be forced not to murder.
I can live with that.

Using a softer language is a great way to hide the harshness of unpopular words.

Indeed.
So why not use the words that properly describe the actions you appear to condone.

Forcing women to give birth is not really any different than forcing them to get an abortion, to me at least.

I was there all three times my wife gave birth.
5th wheel is the best way I could describe my role in it.
I can’t remember any point at all where the doctors, nurses, or myself did anything that forced the births. They all pretty much happened on their own. Pregnancy and birth are natural.
It is the abortion that is the unnatural act.

And note, I am neither pro-choice nor pro-life yet, I have not made up my mind on the matter. I really just don’t understand how people can be so fixated on just one little part of the equation and ignore anything else that makes them feel uncomfortable. There are many aspects of this issue that makes me feel uncomfortable because all of it has problems and negative as well as unforeseen consequences.

Then eventually you will understand…
For all of the aspects you believe are there, they are all inconsequential in comparison to the life of the child.
So…what do you place over life?

 

[neat62]

So making and enforcing legislation is allowing people to live with the consequences of their actions? That’s how people justify enforcing their morality now? Enforcing a moral code as legislation doesn’t allow people to do anything, but forces some people to behave how others want them to behave.

Using a softer language is a great way to hide the harshness of unpopular words.

Forcing women to give birth is not really any different than forcing them to get an abortion, to me at least.

And note, I am neither pro-choice nor pro-life yet, I have not made up my mind on the matter. I really just don’t understand how people can be so fixated on just one little part of the equation and ignore anything else that makes them feel uncomfortable. There are many aspects of this issue that makes me feel uncomfortable because all of it has problems and negative as well as unforeseen consequences.

Here’s the simple answer…if we expected MORE from men and women today, in regards to their sexual behavior, we wouldn’t have to worry about abortion.

If women actually ABSTAINED when they know they are not prepared, can’t afford, or simply don’t want, to have a child…we wouldn’t have to even consider abortion.

BUT instead…because we push a lifestyle of “me, me, me”…“I can do whatever I please, WITHOUT consequence” we sadly, have this attrocious act destroying life, destroying family and destroying humanity.

THINK BEFORE YOU ACT…is it really that difficult??

 

[neat62]

There is no reason, what -so -ever, that can justify the acceptance of the horror and attrocity of abortion, period.

Those who “support” it…will make up any reason, even calling for absolute anarchy…as we see above with a couple of posters who claim we have “free will” so we should be able to do anything.

They justify their position, without applying common sense to the argument…and all for the sake of supporting selfish acts.

As I said above…if we actually expected men and women to consider consequences BEFORE they act…we wouldn’t have this issue in society…instead we expect that both are too STUPID to think and are completely incapable of controlling themselves…likening them to mere animals, than humans created in the image of God, who have been blessed with the abilities to think, feel, analyze, etc.

 

[neat62]

*“I am not fighting for a freedom that means the right to whatever I please but for a freedom that means the right do whatever I ought. Oughtness implies Law; Law implies Intelligence, and Intelligence implies God.” *- Bishop Fulton Sheen’s Wartime Prayer Book

 

[Spirithound]

It’s funny, really funny. I keep agreeing with you, and you keep disagreeing with my agreement. I’m in Alice’s wonderland.
Ok, I give up. I wuv you anyway. kiss kiss.

People are jumping on you because even though you disagree with abortion, you appear to be excusing it for other people. We wish to drive home the point that fetus is just Latin for baby. The thing growing inside a pregnant woman is another human being, and it should not be killed.

 

[rlg94086]

People are jumping on you because even though you disagree with abortion, you appear to be excusing it for other people. We wish to drive home the point that fetus is just Latin for baby. The thing growing inside a pregnant woman is another human being, and it should not be killed.

I had never heard that…probably should have.

Anyway, that is cool! Thanks for posting this.