Pro-Choice folks, what are your reasons for supporting abortion?

[MIZER]

Fitswimmer,

What is your problem exactly:

There’s no objective proof whatsoever for that. It’s hyperbole that adds nothing to the argument.

Again, there are so many good arguments against abortion, arguments that can be objectively validiated-why do we resort to the type that can’t?

A desperate situation calls for desperate measures. We must use every defense at our disposal in our effort to get people like Marrietta to wake up and smell the rot.

Their is too proof that a society that embraces the evil of abortion will perpetuate evil in all areas of life. Look around you for crying out loud. What have we seen in our own country over these past 35 years? Are you blind or just in denial?

 

[Fitswimmer]

Fitswimmer,

What is your problem exactly:

A desperate situation calls for desperate measures. We must use every defense at our disposal in our effort to get people like Marrietta to wake up and smell the rot.

Their is too proof that a society that embraces the evil of abortion will perpetuate evil in all areas of life. Look around you for crying out loud. What have we seen in our own country over these past 35 years? Are you blind or just in denial?

Are you rude or just nasty?

Keep your angry, shrill tone if it makes you happy. Just don’t be shocked when people tune you out.

 

[MIZER]

Fitswimmer writes:

As for the shrillness and anger-the choice of how we respond to someone who disagrees with us is ours alone and if a person truly believes that the best way is to display anger-that’s certainly a valid choice. I’m just not convinced that it is the most fruitful one.

Fitswimmer,

We need you sure about what works in the campaign to save lives and change the hearts and minds of the next generation.

Please, I’m begging you, take a moment and go to www.abortionno.org. Click on the tag that says **“public education projects” **and then go to “college campus outreach (GAP)” and then click on quotes. You will be convinced that unabashadley giving people the truth, whether they want to face it or not, does indeed work. It changes minds and hearts and I have seen it take the most hardened pro-abort individual you might ever encounter in your life and turn them around to the pro-life side. There is only one catch to this. That is that the pro-abort person must be in possession of a functioning conscience.

 

[mapleoak]

There’s no objective proof whatsoever for that. It’s hyperbole that adds nothing to the argument.

Sure there is objective proof. A society which supports abortion most likely also supports contraception, euthanasia, pornography, wedless unions, artificial conception, embryonic research, and on and on…

 

[MIZER]

Fitswimmer accuses me:

Are you rude or just nasty?

Keep your angry, shrill tone if it makes you happy. Just don’t be shocked when people tune you out.

I don’t think I’m being either. But it really doesn’t concern me when I am discussing an issue that has taken 40 million lives and has used my tax dollars to do it? Are you more enraged by my rudeness and nastiness then you are at the truth of the genocide we tollerate on a day to day bases in our own back yard? I think you have the bigger problem if you are.

As for people tuning me out because their internal delicacy can’t handle rude and nasty, are you familiar with a man on TV named Jerry Springer? He has a very highly rated television show that is the epitome of rude and nasty and it is his audience I wish to have, thank you very much.

 

[vz71]

vz71:

In English this time: I do not defend the choice to abort. I defend the right to choose.

So why should the choice to abort be a valid choice?
You haven’t answered the question.

Now, as far as the choice to terminate a pregnancy being a “valid” choice - well, my trusty old Webster’s defines “valid” this way:

“Having legal force; properly performed and binding under the law.” That is the preferred definition in my dictionary. So, considering abortion is currently legal here, I think you’ve answered your own question, vz71.

It is valid because it is valid is not an answer.

Why should the choice to abort be valid?

 

[Fitswimmer]

Fitswimmer accuses me:

I don’t think I’m being either. But it really doesn’t concern me when I am discussing an issue that has taken 40 million lives and has used my tax dollars to do it? Are you more enraged by my rudeness and nastiness then you are at the truth of the genocide we tollerate on a day to day bases in our own back yard? I think you have the bigger problem if you are.

As for people tuning me out because their internal delicacy can’t handle rude and nasty, are you familiar with a man on TV named Jerry Springer? He has a very highly rated television show that is the epitome of rude and nasty and it is his audience I wish to have, thank you very much.

I’ve never seen Jerry Springer and from what I’ve read about his show, it’s full of angry, rage filled people.

I’m very glad that you do not volunteer with the single mothers who come to our baby showers, drive them to pre-natal appointments or work with them to help them be able to choose to keep their babies or give them up for adoption. These are often vulnerable, frightened women who would not respond well to that kind of attack. If we came at them with that kind of anger, they would run to the open arms of Planned Parenthood. They long ago learned that showing themselves as “compassionate” and “concerned” brings more people to their side. That’s how they hide that what they’re doing is actually evil.

I long ago chose to do my pro-life work on the ground and stay away from the marches and legal fights.

 

[mapleoak]

I’m very glad that you do not volunteer with the single mothers who come to our baby showers, drive them to pre-natal appointments or work with them to help them be able to choose to keep their babies or give them up for adoption.

How did you arrive at that conclusion? Where did Mizer say that?

These are often vulnerable, frightened women who would not respond well to that kind of attack. If we came at them with that kind of anger, they would run to the open arms of Planned Parenthood.

On what basis do you make the determination that pregnant women are all frightened and vulnerable?

They long ago learned that showing themselves as “compassionate” and “concerned” brings more people to their side. That’s how they hide that what they’re doing is actually evil.

Which is all the more reason we have a duty and obligation to bring what they are doing to light so it does not remain hidden.

 

[allhers]

I’ve never seen Jerry Springer and from what I’ve read about his show, it’s full of angry, rage filled people.

I’m very glad that you do not volunteer with the single mothers who come to our baby showers, drive them to pre-natal appointments or work with them to help them be able to choose to keep their babies or give them up for adoption. These are often vulnerable, frightened women who would not respond well to that kind of attack. If we came at them with that kind of anger, they would run to the open arms of Planned Parenthood. They long ago learned that showing themselves as “compassionate” and “concerned” brings more people to their side. That’s how they hide that what they’re doing is actually evil.

I long ago chose to do my pro-life work on the ground and stay away from the marches and legal fights.

Well gee, many of us do the same thing, and we don’t attack or accuse women who are frightened or vulnerable, or who have any other emotion or feeling, but we do honestly tell them the truth. Afterall, if you just show compassion and concern like Marietta seems to then you just compassionately lead them right to a “sterile” place to dismember and murder their child.
They need to see the truth with ultra sounds, from what I understand when an ultra sound was needed at an abortion mill, they never let the mother see the baby, (afterall, that would have revealed the truth right then and there, wouldn’t it?) Many life centers now do just that, they allow the woman to see her child, that is why P.P. doesn’t like them, they reveal the truth, something that is bad for business ($$$$$).
Telling the truth and revealing the evil of abortion is a good thing to do, if I had ever considered abortion I sure would want the person that I was talking to to tell me the truth, not sugar coat it all the way Marietta does and tell me how its my right to choose to murder my baby, without really calling my baby a baby. Then leading me to what is called a sterile place to do that.

 

[MIZER]

Are you rude or just nasty?

Keep your angry, shrill tone if it makes you happy. Just don’t be shocked when people tune you out.

OK, I see your problem. This explains where you are coming from very well. And, I agree with you whole heartedly. When I am counseling in a crises pregnancy center, of course my tone is completely different. I suppose you wouldn’t even recognize me.

However, on this thread I have not been counseling a frightened pregnant young woman. So, a different tactic is appropriate as we probably have more hardened and seasoned pro-abort minds looking for some action on this board than we do unwed teenagers. Did you go to the web-site? What do you think?

I’ve been an activist for as long as abortion has been legal. I’ve done my share of standing at the State fair passing out pamphlets and I’ve held my share of banquets trying to give pro-life speakers a forum, in which less then half a dozen people show up. I’m telling you, the kind of work that is being done by the Center for Bio-Ethical Reform is very effective. It is nothing short of awesome, and I don’t use that word lightly. With the GAP project I have had the opportunity to speak with litterally hundreds of pro-abort people just like Marrietta. And by the end of the week I’ve see them come back to the display with their friends and they are now making the pro-life case themselves. It is truly amazing. Check it out!

The genocide awareness project compares abortion to more readily recognnized froms of genocide and it makes abortion impossible to ignore. Ignoring it is exactly what Marrietta is doing on this board. She hides behind the word CHOICE and she will not face what that choice is or what it does to the bodies of innocent human beings. Now is that rude and nasty? If it is, then that’s just too dog-gone bad. It is the truth.

 

[Fitswimmer]

OK, I see your problem. This explains where you are coming from very well. And, I agree with you whole heartedly. When I am counseling in a crises pregnancy center, of course my tone is completely different. I suppose you wouldn’t even recognize me.

However, on this thread I have not been counseling a frightened pregnant young woman. So, a different tactic is appropriate as we probably have more hardened and seasoned pro-abort minds looking for some action on this board than we do unwed teenagers. Did you go to the web-site? What do you think?

I’ve been an activist for as long as abortion has been legal. I’ve done my share of standing at the State fair passing out pamphlets and I’ve held my share of banquets trying to give pro-life speakers a forum, in which less then half a dozen people show up. I’m telling you, the kind of work that is being done by the Center for Bio-Ethical Reform is very effective. It is nothing short of awesome, and I don’t use that word lightly. With the GAP project I have had the opportunity to speak with litterally hundreds of pro-abort people just like Marrietta. And by the end of the week I’ve see them come back to the display with their friends and they are now making the pro-life case themselves. It is truly amazing. Check it out!

The genocide awareness project compares abortion to more readily recognnized froms of genocide and it makes abortion impossible to ignore. Ignoring it is exactly what Marrietta is doing on this board. She hides behind the word CHOICE and she will not face what that choice is or what it does to the bodies of innocent human beings. Now is that rude and nasty? If it is, then that’s just too dog-gone bad. It is the truth.

I did check out the website-for a VERY short time. While I understand the reality of those images, I do not feel the need to view them. I have seen people hold up such images along the side of the road, and I object strongly to that tactic as well. I couldn’t tell if this organization shoves those pictures in people’s faces without warning like that-if they leave it as a choice for people to view or not I have no problem.

We’ve used pictures from the new ultrasounds in our counseling sessions instead of the graphic ones. If we’re lucky, we can have an ultrasound done on the woman so she can see how far along her own child is. We have never had a woman who has seen those ultrasounds choose abortion after that. Once they see the face, the fingers and toes and the movement-any idea of aborting is out the window.

 

[mapleoak]

I did check out the website-for a VERY short time. While I understand the reality of those images, I do not feel the need to view them.

The purpose of those images is to instruct the ignorant. To display the reality of what abortion is and educate those who need to be educated.

I have seen people hold up such images along the side of the road, and I object strongly to that tactic as well.

It is a tactic that works and works well. Why would you be strongly opposed to a tactic that saves human lives? Is your personal comfort more important than the lives of those who are saved?

 

[whatevergirl]

I would take it a step further and say that if a woman chooses to sever her leg, she should be arrested as well and at the very least put into a mental institution. Just because it is her body, she is not free to do with it, or to it, or use it however she pleases.

I am surprised that my point was taken out of context like this…Of course, I was just making a point–I am not suggesting that self mutilation is acceptable…it was more of a way to explain that the baby growing inside of a woman, is not ‘her’ body, but rather her body is the host to that baby.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

I am surprised that my point was taken out of context like this…Of course, I was just making a point–I am not suggesting that self mutilation is acceptable…it was more of a way to explain that the baby growing inside of a woman, is not ‘her’ body, but rather her body is the host to that baby.

I had said something similar a few posts back…of course I understood your point. I had just wanted to elaborate that people would be outraged at that “choice”.
But not everyone is outraged by the “choice” of abortion. That “choice” is unfortunately protected by law.

 

[mapleoak]

I am surprised that my point was taken out of context like this…Of course, I was just making a point–I am not suggesting that self mutilation is acceptable…it was more of a way to explain that the baby growing inside of a woman, is not ‘her’ body, but rather her body is the host to that baby.

I understand the point you were making. I only wanted to add that many abortion supporters use the reasoning that since they claim it is ‘her’ body she is free to amputate her body parts, whether external or internal. This alone would be reason enough to suppose mental illness. However it is a much greater tragedy, since it is indeed not her body, but that of a totally unique individual. Didn’t mean to take your post out of context.

 

[Fitswimmer]

The purpose of those images is to instruct the ignorant. To display the reality of what abortion is and educate those who need to be educated.

It is a tactic that works and works well. Why would you be strongly opposed to a tactic that saves human lives? Is your personal comfort more important than the lives of those who are saved?

Not my personal comfort-the comfort of children riding in cars and sitting in traffic who are exposed to those images! Have you ever had to explain to a 6 year old why “that lady is screaming at us” and try and distract her attention from those sorts of pictures?? I have-I was out with my godchild when we were stuck in traffic in front of one of those protests and it is an experience I will NEVER forget. She was in the back in her carseat and I nearly rear ended someone trying to distract her from viewing pictures like those.

I have no problem with encouraging people to visit the site, view the images and be educated on what abortion really is-especially our young people-but to have those pictures out on the street,with no way for them to be avoided is irresponsible and dangerous.

 

[whatevergirl]

I had said something similar a few posts back…of course I understood your point. I had just wanted to elaborate that people would be outraged at that “choice”.
But not everyone is outraged by the “choice” of abortion. That “choice” is unfortunately protected by law.

ah yes–you make a great additional point, piggybacking what I was saying…

 

[whatevergirl]

I understand the point you were making. I only wanted to add that many abortion supporters use the reasoning that since they claim it is ‘her’ body she is free to amputate her body parts, whether external or internal. This alone would be reason enough to suppose mental illness. However it is a much greater tragedy, since it is indeed not her body, but that of a totally unique individual. Didn’t mean to take your post out of context.

Yes, agreed. I marvel that feminism has left us with society somehow buying into the abortion lie…that an unborn baby, is part of a woman’s body, now? It is so very sad…we must remain prayer warriors!

 

[whatevergirl]

Not my personal comfort-the comfort of children riding in cars and sitting in traffic who are exposed to those images! Have you ever had to explain to a 6 year old why “that lady is screaming at us” and try and distract her attention from those sorts of pictures?? I have-I was out with my godchild when we were stuck in traffic in front of one of those protests and it is an experience I will NEVER forget. She was in the back in her carseat and I nearly rear ended someone trying to distract her from viewing pictures like those.

I have no problem with encouraging people to visit the site, view the images and be educated on what abortion really is-especially our young people-but to have those pictures out on the street,with no way for them to be avoided is irresponsible and dangerous.

I have been in similiar situations when my kids were younger. I don’t recall them reacting at all…I remember though thinking to myself that people marching with these signs at busy intersections, could cause potential accidents. I think that the signs are so striking that one could easily take his/her eyes off of the road to see what is going on. I don’t disagree with the marching with signs, ***because the signs are not the problem–the abortions are…but the delivery is not right to do at a busy intersection in the middle of mainstreet usa. ***I think that those demonstrations need to be coordinated better…they need to be seen, but they shouldn’t be positioned in busy intersections, where onlookers could cause accidents because they are distracting.

I’m curious why news shows don’t do more commentary or documentaries, like Dateline or something…showing the ‘truth about abortions,’ or something. It seems like it’s only discussed in religious circles…on the radio, perhaps an obscure Catholic or Protestant radio channel, or EWTN, but I don’t ever see a thing about abortion being discussed on mainstream tv. I marvel that as a society, we are not defending the unborn.

It’s interesting–I was listening to a program yesterday, discussing stats of abortions in China, and in about 30 years, there are going to be four times the amount of single men, to women, because with the ‘one child per household’ rule in China, girl babies are often aborted, because only households that ‘produce’ male babies, will receive financial rewards, something around $7k, not a lot, but maybe a lot there. I just couldn’t believe that stat, and how the ripple effects of abortion are far reaching.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Not my personal comfort-the comfort of children riding in cars and sitting in traffic who are exposed to those images! Have you ever had to explain to a 6 year old why “that lady is screaming at us” and try and distract her attention from those sorts of pictures??

You have pictures that scream?

I have-I was out with my godchild when we were stuck in traffic in front of one of those protests and it is an experience I will NEVER forget. She was in the back in her carseat and I nearly rear ended someone trying to distract her from viewing pictures like those.

I have no problem with encouraging people to visit the site, view the images and be educated on what abortion really is-especially our young people-but to have those pictures out on the street,with no way for them to be avoided is irresponsible and dangerous.

When children have adverse reactions, it is because they cue on the actions of the adults with them. You get upset, the child gets upset.