Pro-Choice folks, what are your reasons for supporting abortion?

[vz71]

It appears you object with yourself.

How so?

OK, here is how…

No it will not frighten, and shock, and serve no worthwhile purporse. I can’t speak for your children, but the general statement is false.

The first sentence is a positive assertion. “NO it will not…”
The second states that this apparent positive assertion is no longer so positive…“I can’t speak for…”
And the second part of the sentence erodes the first even further to explain you are speaking in generalities “the general statement…”

 

[MIZER]

It is the posting on public billboards that I am in contention with.

This has been tried but it doesn’t work as the pro-aborts tear them down before anyone see them.

 

[mapleoak]

Am I the only one here that is beginning to think that marietta and SFTor are one in the same?

I was beginning to suspect a sock puppet as well.

 

[mapleoak]

OK, here is how…

The first sentence is a positive assertion. “NO it will not…”
The second states that this apparent positive assertion is no longer so positive…“I can’t speak for…”
And the second part of the sentence erodes the first even further to explain you are speaking in generalities “the general statement…”

Analysis paralysis, perhaps.

 

[vz71]

Analysis paralysis, perhaps.

In any case…I am serious.
If there is proof that these billboards do save lives, then I will have to alter my position on them.

I believe I have stated my position on life in other threads, that it is paramount. I could not place the rights I have as a parent of my child over that.

 

[MIZER]

vz71 writes:

Placing a billboard in public that highlights the torn apart remains of an abortion invites public outcry from both pro-life and pro-abortion side. As witnessed on this thread, the pro-abortion side delights in the contention it creates.

Graphic imagery has a place, and it should serve to shock people into action. But placement on a public billboard fails this purpose utterly. The lack of consideration due the audience that may see it is the downfall of this tactic. You want to shock adults into action…not shock their preschool children. Nor force the parents into dialogues with their own children that the parent feels the child is not ready for.

It frightens children, and usurps the authority of the parent.

The whole premis of your argument is moot because no bilboards in a public place last long enough for any one to see them much less pre-school children. No pro-life organization has the money for to pay for a bill board that will be defaced or torn down immediately. If you want to talk about protesters at Abortion mills then parents can easily avoid that, and the GAP project is held on college campuses and there are warning signs posted so again children can be easily diverted. Otherwise, people standing on street corners or in front of city buildings are exercising their right to free speech and there is nothing you can do about that. Pro-lifers should not be approaching cars and they should not be shoving the pictures in any one’s (much less a child’s) face.

vz71,

You and carjack are overreacting. You are talking about pre-school age children, that’s age four and under. These children are very easily distracted, they often do not know what they are seeing for the split second they may see the pictures before some adult wisks them away or distracts them and if they are precocious and need an explanation, if one is given them that is appropriate for thier age and is assuring them of thier own personal saftey, it is, in most cases, not a problem. So, you are freaking out about a potential handful of kids who might have some temporary emotional difficulty and you simply cannot expect the pro-life movement to abandon the most effective way we have to get poeple to think and stop ignoring the genocide taking place in our own house.

We are morally obligated to do what we can to stop this evil from taking place. The only way to do that is to change the minds and hearts of people who think abortion is a choice every woman should have. The only way to do that is through visual means as Abortion is an evil so great, to horrific, words simply cannot express the magnitude of it.

If you could guaruntee me an audience of thousands of “pro-choice”/pro-abort individuals who would be willing to listen to a pro-life speech and look at the pictures in a banquet hall or something then you might have a case. Since you can’t, you are going to have to come to terms with the pictures and the fact that maybe a few children will be temporarily upset by them. I would rather a few kids be temporarily traumatized then thousands of kids, permanently dead, on any day of the week.

 

[mapleoak]

In any case…I am serious.
If there is proof that these billboards do save lives, then I will have to alter my position on them.

I believe I have stated my position on life in other threads, that it is paramount. I could not place the rights I have as a parent of my child over that.

I know your position on life from many, many posts and know that you are wholeheartedly pro-life. I am not arguing with that.

I am sure you remember some of the heated threads on the use of graphic displays on tractor trailers where there has been testimonies quoted from women who have spared their childs life after seeing the images. It would only stand to reason that if there are a few women brave enough to come forth and admit they were going to go through with an abortion and had a change of heart, there are more than likely countless others who remain silent.

 

[MIZER]

vz71, again:

If there is proof that these billboards do save lives, then I will have to alter my position on them.

Yes there is proof. Go to www.abortionno.org get into the website past the homepage and read the testimonials. Make a donation to this organization and get on the mailing list. Then you will recieve newsletters and you can read testimonials every few months or so. It’s very encouraging. This is the age, college age, of the “kids” we want to see the pictures. They are very effective in changing the minds and hearts of, not only the general population who identify themselves as “pro-choice,” but also those who are hardened and seasoned pro-aborts. I’ve witnessed this happen for myself as I’ve worked with GAP, the Genocide Awarness Project. It is the most exciting pro-life work I have ever engaged in over the past 35 years. The billboard sized pictures of abortion are juxtaposed against other pictures (many of them you have probably seen already) of other more readily recognized forms of genocide, like the haulocaust, lynchings, rawanda. It gets college kids and professors en-masse talking about and debating the issue. It’s truely amazing. The pro-aborts come out of their dens and come to us in droves. We don’t have to go to them and beg them to listen to us. We don’t have to beg them to think. The pictures make them think. No one with at least half a brain can look at these billboards (and they are on display in a central location on a college campus with warning signs posted, not in public) and not think.

Please, go to the website. Look at all of it. Don’t just get turned off by the homepage and only spend a few minutes there like fitswimmer did. Take the time to explore the whole site, find the GAP pictures so you can see what is used. Find the testimonials vz71. You will have your proof.

 

[MIZER]

OK, here you go vz71. If I could link you directly to the page I would, but I don’t know how to do that. So go to www.abortionno.org and click on the tag that says public education projects, a menu will drop down and you need to click on evidence of changed minds.

Read the page and then please come back here and tell us that you have changed your mind about the use of pictures.

 

[MIZER]

The following is from the website and it is talking about one of the other projects CBR is doing on the internet. Marrietta, could I get you to visit this website and learn more? Or is your mind closed?

The AbortionNO web project is an animated presentation of the most compelling, anti-abortion arguments and images on the internet.
**AbortionNO mixes scientific fact, historical examination, and contemporary analysis with the most sobering 1st trimester and 2nd trimester abortion images in existence.

Visitors may voice their opinion on our online Message Board or through our online Survey.

WARNING: Abortion is an act of violence that kills a baby. This site graphically depicts that reality.

Here is a few of the testimonials from the AbortionNO part of the website"**

*April 15, 2006

I had four abortions and never in my dreams did anyone show me or even talk me out of it. After seeing what I saw here, I wish to God that somebody would have stopped me. I killed my 4 children. Oh my God.

April 15, 2006

I had an abortion, and it was the worst decision I made in my life. Now, looking at the website has really made me realize what I did… I would never tell anyone to get an abortion. THERE ARE ALWAYS OTHER OPTIONS!!!

April 17, 2006

If I had seen this website before the dreadful day of Feb.7, 2006, I would have never done it. I was between 5-7 weeks and didn’t know all the facts or views. I wasn’t ready for a fourth child with my third child having heart disease, and being financially limited. Those were my excuses and now they don’t seem too important in comparison to what I’ve done! I feel shattered inside and out. I can’t even say the word “baby” without feeling so guilty. Everytime my husband tells me that I should forget it and leave it in the past, it gets harder to do. Please inform all women young and old, unmarried or married, because this will scar you forever and deeply. There is only one thing for me to do and is to talk to all women and show them the truth and ask God for forgiveness of my shameful act.*

My emphasis on this last one is for Marrietta’s benefit. I know you’rE reading this. Will you go to www.abortionno.org and look at what you are defending when you defend CHOICE?

 

[MIZER]

SFTor, posts this:

would you also endorse the public display of imagery of animal cruelty from slaughterhouses, sponsored by PETA, and images of mangled and slaughtered Iraqi children, sponsored by war protesters? How about images of mangled traffic deaths from Mothers Against Drunk Driving? Images of bullet-riddled bodies from the anti-gun lobby?

You are failing to recognize that the media have hidden the truth of abortion from the public for years. They will not cover the story when a woman dies on the table they will not cover any story regarding pro-life word they essentially ignore abortion. I guarentee you if there were pictures of slaughtered iraqi children and if they thought the killing of them could be pinned on our soldiers then we would be seeing them. PETA has a great big voice and the pictures of mangled traffic deaths are shown to highschool kids every spring before prom.

So to answer your question, yes. I am for the public display of any pictures that might educate the ignorant and save lives.

 

[whatevergirl]

I wonder if anyone here is familiar with Numbers 5:11–31.

As far as I can tell it prescribes a forced abortion should a woman have become pregnant through adultery.

These are verses 26-28 as found on the International Bible Society’s website:

“The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial [c] offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.”

What is the understanding on this forum of this passage in the Old Testament?

I don’t know…that is interesting.

 

[carjack]

Once again, you are misrepresenting what constitutes child abuse or worse yet pyschological trauma, both subjects which you obviously know nothing about. Once again, advise is to consult with someone knowledgable in the field. Further don’t misrepresent prolifers.

I know the meaning of the word abuse and psychological trauma. Apparently you don’t know anything about the subjects. You consult with a professional and get some class.

 

[carjack]

How does it weaken the argument? Children have to be born before they can be traumatized. Those woman who are getting an abortion need to be persuaded away from their intentions. The argument that children are traumatized by them is weak and an indication of your level of parenting skills.

The pics are in poor taste. Their are children here. I do not see a lack of them. The ones that are here are being traumatized. Do not criticized my parenting skills. There is a way to educate the woman who are considering abortion without being vile and disgusting. Or is that the only way you know how to communicate an idea or give out information?

 

[mapleoak]

The pics are in poor taste. Their are children here. I do not see a lack of them.

The fact that their are children here does not mean we can ignore the ones that are yet to be born.

The ones that are here are being traumatized.

This is your opinion and it is false.

Do not criticized my parenting skills. There is a way to educate the woman who are considering abortion without being vile and disgusting.

Yes, vile and disgusting means should not be used.

Or is that the only way you know how to communicate an idea or give out information?

Of course not.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Yes there is proof. Go to www.abortionno.org get into the website past the homepage and read the testimonials. Make a donation to this organization and get on the mailing list. Then you will recieve newsletters and you can read testimonials every few months or so. It’s very encouraging. This is the age, college age, of the “kids” we want to see the pictures. They are very effective in changing the minds and hearts of, not only the general population who identify themselves as “pro-choice,” but also those who are hardened and seasoned pro-aborts. I’ve witnessed this happen for myself as I’ve worked with GAP, the Genocide Awarness Project. It is the most exciting pro-life work I have ever engaged in over the past 35 years. The billboard sized pictures of abortion are juxtaposed against other pictures (many of them you have probably seen already) of other more readily recognized forms of genocide, like the haulocaust, lynchings, rawanda. It gets college kids and professors en-masse talking about and debating the issue. It’s truely amazing. The pro-aborts come out of their dens and come to us in droves. We don’t have to go to them and beg them to listen to us. We don’t have to beg them to think. The pictures make them think. No one with at least half a brain can look at these billboards (and they are on display in a central location on a college campus with warning signs posted, not in public) and not think.

Please, go to the website. Look at all of it. Don’t just get turned off by the homepage and only spend a few minutes there like fitswimmer did. Take the time to explore the whole site, find the GAP pictures so you can see what is used. Find the testimonials vz71. You will have your proof.

I’m in complete support of showing these kind of photos to older kids. I think it is true that they have little or no idea what an abortion really is, and they do need to know what it’s about. When my godchild was about 10, we started talking about those kind of things, but I don’t think she actually saw any photos or anything until she was about 12.

The group we encountered that day was very likely a fringe group, but it does kind of shock me that so many people have no problem at all with graphic photos being shoved in the face of a 6 year old. I’ve seen protesters in NYC that have the photos out on a table and parents can easily steer their little ones away while viewing themselves or allowing older kids to view. No problem there.

I’m not suggesting in any way that the truth about abortion not be told, only that there are appropriate ways to do it.

 

[vern_humphrey]

You have in your mind this picture that everything is due to the parents reactions. I can asure you that is not the case many times. Give up trying to build this straw man.

You have in your mind this picture that everything is not due to the parents reactions. I can asure you that is not the case. Give up trying to build this straw man

Also, who are you to decide where and when a parent is to educate their child?

Also, who are you to decide where and when ohter people can make their protests against the murder of children, and them pretend their objection si for the benefit of children?

 

[carjack]

The fact that their are children here does not mean we can ignore the ones that are yet to be born.

This is your opinion and it is false.

Yes, vile and disgusting means should not be used.

Of course not.

I am not saying to ignore the unborn. But lets not act like there are no children in the world to consider when displaying graphic and vile images of aborted babies. Children are being traumatized and this is a fact, which means that it is true. It is not an opinion. You opinion is false. Just because I don’t agree with the pics doesn’t mean that I don’t agree with the cause. Shock methods are not the only way to get a message across. By using the picture/shock method, you are making other pro-lifers look bad,

 

[MIZER]

Is it your opinion that those with disagreements should leave? Just how does that lead them closer to the truth? I remember a saying that went something like “…its the sick who need the doctor, not the well…”.

Carjack,

The pictures are not in poor taste. That nasty taste in your mouth should be there because of what the pictures depict, not the pictures themselves and not because pro-lifers use the pictures. The pictures work, especially as they are used by CBR because the juxtaposition of the abortion pictures right next to more readily recognized form of genocide, force people to engage their brain and think. This thinking process causes people to change thier minds about abortion. If you would study the website, www.abortionno.org you would change your mind about the use of pictures. I guarentee it. Go to the web-site and read the testamonials, you can find them under the public education resources tag and then click on evidence of changed minds. Then come back here and tell us if you still think we shouldn’t use the pictures because a precious few children may be upset by the pictures. That upset does not rise to the level of abuse. PLEASE!

 

[carjack]

You have in your mind this picture that everything is not due to the parents reactions. I can asure you that is not the case. Give up trying to build this straw man

Also, who are you to decide where and when ohter people can make their protests against the murder of children, and them pretend their objection si for the benefit of children?

It not always due to parental reactions. Making protest of murdered children is fine, shoving pictues of murdered babies in front of childrens faces is NOT!!