Pro-choice friends

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No, I was talking about fetuses - not born infants.
Ok. Then what is the fundamental difference that makes, say, a 6 month pre-maturely born baby sentient, but a full term 9-month fetus not sentient? The only arguable distinction is physical location, and I certainly hope you’re not going to claim one has rights that the other does not on such a distinction.
 
To a paper and ink dictionary? Of course not! The sum total of human knowledge is not contained entirely on the internet.
I hope you can understand why I won’t accept your dictionary claim on the basis of your say-so.
 
Ok. Then what is the fundamental difference that makes, say, a 6 month pre-maturely born baby sentient, but a full term 9-month fetus not sentient? The only arguable distinction is physical location, and I certainly hope you’re not going to claim one has rights that the other does not on such a distinction.
Again, I recognize that there is a somewhat complicated issue, and my view is there isn’t much difference. But the case is much clearer in the *early *stages of pregnancy: no sentience at all.
 
I don’t know. He probably should think they’re persons.
It seems irrational to believe it is OK to kill infants but not pigs.
Either it is OK to kill non-persons or it is not? You are making Singer appear irrational. I find that hard to believe about a philosopher; a political activist yes, but not a philosopher.
 
It seems irrational to believe it is OK to kill infants but not pigs.
Either it is OK to kill non-persons or it is not? You are making Singer appear irrational. I find that hard to believe about a philosopher; a political activist yes, but not a philosopher.
If pigs are persons in Singer’s sense, then he’s consistent. But I’m not an expert on Singer: he is a very careful thinker and it would be worthwhile for you to study his writings.

utilitarian.net/singer/
 
What is the definition of a person?
Did you look at the link? You actually ask a difficult philosophical question. According to the traditional conception, persons are beings who:
  1. Code:
     are alive and aware of their environment;
  2. Code:
      have the capacity for pleasure and pain;
  3. Code:
      have emotions and a sense of self;
  4. Code:
     control their actions;
  5. Code:
     recognize other persons and treat them appropriately; and
  6. Code:
     have a variety of higher order intellectual skills (including abilities to learn, to communicate, to solve complex problems, and to engage in abstract thought).
indefenseofdolphins.com/book/toc.html#Chapter6
Wouldn’t you agree that It seems irrational to believe it is OK to kill infants but not pigs?
It really depends on the kinds of situations we’re talking about. Regarding our treatment of pigs, it’s not just the painful killing I object to, it’s the way they’re routinely tortured prior to death - something that almost NEVER happens with human infants.
 
It really depends on the kinds of situations we’re talking about. Regarding our treatment of pigs, it’s not just the painful killing I object to, it’s the way they’re routinely tortured prior to death - something that almost NEVER happens with human infants.
I not talking about the care and feed of… I’m talking about killing.
Wouldn’t you agree that It seems irrational to believe it is OK to kill infants but not pigs?
 
I not talking about the care and feed of… I’m talking about killing.
Wouldn’t you agree that It seems irrational to believe it is OK to kill infants but not pigs?
Not necessarily. If infants are not persons, but pigs are, then killing the former but not the latter wouldn’t be irrational.
 
Did you look at the link? You actually ask a difficult philosophical question. According to the traditional conception, persons are beings who:
  1. Code:
     are alive and aware of their environment;
  2. Code:
      have the capacity for pleasure and pain;
  3. Code:
      have emotions and a sense of self;
  4. Code:
     control their actions;
  5. Code:
     recognize other persons and treat them appropriately; and
  6. Code:
     have a variety of higher order intellectual skills (including abilities to learn, to communicate, to solve complex problems, and to engage in abstract thought).
  1. rational
 
I’m not rationally obligated to find your claim the slightest bit convincing. Why do you think it’s incorrect?

Agonizing pain? Can you post a specific video? Moreover, even if fetuses develop the capacity to suffer at some point, it’s clear that in the very early stages they don’t have that capacity - so there is no harm at all in killing them.
Why did it take so long for your pro-abortion stance to come out?:confused:
 
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