Pro-gay marriage "Bible alone" Christians: explanation?

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Let me start with saying I disagree with gay marriage. But that is not the purpose of this post. I’m just wondering why any “christian” who bases their whole religion on the Bible can agree with it. :confused: Don’t get mad now, I just want an explanation.:tsktsk:

:amen:
 
The Bible can easily be used to support just about anything one wants to believe by cherry picking verses out of context to support it. That’s why the Bible needs an inspired interpreter–one given to us by God himself–the Church. Your very question is proof of this need.
 
The Bible can easily be used to support just about anything one wants to believe by cherry picking verses out of context to support it. That’s why the Bible needs an inspired interpreter–one given to us by God himself–the Church. Your very question is proof of this need.
I know, I know. 👍 That’s why were Catholic. I just wanted a Protestant’s view.
 
I know, I know. 👍 That’s why were Catholic. I just wanted a Protestant’s view.
You didn’t specify Protestants should answer, so I replied. 😉 Even so, I don’t believe many would think it possible, but we’ll see.
 
You didn’t specify Protestants should answer, so I replied. 😉 Even so, I don’t believe many would think it possible, but we’ll see.
How do you get that signature at the end of your post?
 
While not a member of a Protestant ecclesial community which holds to the understanding you refer to, I’ll nonetheless take a stab at it.

Sodom was not about homosexuality. It was about rape and cruelty. All the men were involved in raping the 2 male visiting angels but not all of the men were homosexual.

And Ezekiel 16:49 explains the sins of Sodom as pride, over abundance, idleness, and not serving the poor.

Christians are not bound by Levitical laws and much depends on the translation process. Words can take on a different meaning in the translation process than what was intended. And for instance in 1Cor 6:9 and 1Tim 1:10 there are translations not using the word homosexual. The NRSV and RSV for instance use words such as fornicators, male prostitutes, sexual perverts, and sodomites.

Where Romans 1:21-31 speaks of natural/unnatural, what is natural or unnatural for the person depends on the person. For instance what would be unnatural for a homosexual, would be to engage in marriage with a heterosexual.

Given these types of undertanding, it could follow then if homosexuality is not a sin, pro gay marriage becomes a possibilty.

I hope this helps at least somewhat. Peace.
 
While not a member of a Protestant ecclesial community which holds to the understanding you refer to, I’ll nonetheless take a stab at it.

Sodom was not about homosexuality. It was about rape and cruelty. All the men were involved in raping the 2 male visiting angels but not all of the men were homosexual.

And Ezekiel 16:49 explains the sins of Sodom as pride, over abundance, idleness, and not serving the poor.

Christians are not bound by Levitical laws and much depends on the translation process. Words can take on a different meaning in the translation process than what was intended. And for instance in 1Cor 6:9 and 1Tim 1:10 there are translations not using the word homosexual. The NRSV and RSV for instance use words such as fornicators, male prostitutes, sexual perverts, and sodomites.

Where Romans 1:21-31 speaks of natural/unnatural, what is natural or unnatural for the person depends on the person. For instance what would be unnatural for a homosexual, would be to engage in marriage with a heterosexual.

Given these types of undertanding, it could follow then if homosexuality is not a sin, pro gay marriage becomes a possibilty.
In other words, making the text say something it doesn’t say. Evil can twist anything. The Founders of the Constitution knew this too. I remember reading a letter between, I think it was Madison and Jefferson, about including the Bill of Rights. Jefferson’s response was that those 10 bills were great but they would not mean much in the future. Whatever they wrote down or intended would inevitably be twisted to mean something unintended as the years passed by.

The Bible is no different. People will twist it to conform to their preset beliefs. I could create a law right now that reads:
  1. No man shall wear a pink shirt on any Monday in any part of the world ever.
Eventually people would say things like, “Well, pink in his culture hundred of years ago meant different things than the color we think of today. He was referring to a particular style of clothing we no longer wear”.

See what I mean?
 
Let me start with saying I disagree with gay marriage. But that is not the purpose of this post. I’m just wondering why any “christian” who bases their whole religion on the Bible can agree with it. :confused: Don’t get mad now, I just want an explanation.:tsktsk:

:amen:
I do not pretend to be a religiously fanatical catholic…thru the years I have welcomed God back into my life…I suppose its always better late than never…I am trying to live life as Jesus Christ would want me to…I feel it is not my place to agree or disagree with gay marriages I truly believe this is Gods job to approve or disapprove. At the end of the day we all need to learn to be more tolerant of one another and our choices. When the second coming of Christ arrives he will let all of us know he is the true Judge not us. Live and Let Live!!! :angel1:
 
I think 2 men or 2 women loving each other is fine. BUT When it is your sexuality it is wrong. The bible says homosexuality is wrong not love in general. I doubt our wonderful God hates love.
 
While not a member of a Protestant ecclesial community which holds to the understanding you refer to, I’ll nonetheless take a stab at it.

Sodom was not about homosexuality. It was about rape and cruelty. All the men were involved in raping the 2 male visiting angels but not all of the men were homosexual.

And Ezekiel 16:49 explains the sins of Sodom as pride, over abundance, idleness, and not serving the poor.

Christians are not bound by Levitical laws and much depends on the translation process. Words can take on a different meaning in the translation process than what was intended. And for instance in 1Cor 6:9 and 1Tim 1:10 there are translations not using the word homosexual. The NRSV and RSV for instance use words such as fornicators, male prostitutes, sexual perverts, and sodomites.

Where Romans 1:21-31 speaks of natural/unnatural, what is natural or unnatural for the person depends on the person. For instance what would be unnatural for a homosexual, would be to engage in marriage with a heterosexual.

Given these types of undertanding, it could follow then if homosexuality is not a sin, pro gay marriage becomes a possibilty.

I hope this helps at least somewhat. Peace.
The Bible in no way addresses same sex relationships nor does it seek to put forth an understanding of the complexity of human sexuality.

For the most part I agree with friend CMatt’s understanding…I am not “sola scriptura”…the Bible is a product of it’s time and culture. It is not a science book, psychology book nor sociology book.
 
I understand how people like to look at the bible as a product of its time. However, if you believe that, there’s really no reason to adhere to it as the bible itself claims to NOT be a product of its time.

Isaiah 40:8
The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.

Given that the word does indeed discuss homosexuality, it is not pertinent to dismiss it. Attempts at suggesting that passages are mistranslated doesn’t suffice. The original greek tends to solidify that homosexuality is meant.

Likewise, you have Romans 1:26-27 to contend with, which doesn’t have to use the term “homosexual” to get its point across.
 
I of course disagree with these justifications. As others have mentioned one thing they do is redefine. In addition to the other redefinitions mentioned another is to redefine the clear teachings to only be condemnatory of pederasty. Somehow they work it out so that gays in a ‘loving relationship’ are excluded from the condemnations.

The most amazing and most truthful explanation I’ve heard is that since we accepted women priests/ministers, and taken other stances contrary to the Bible, we’ve already shown we don’t take the Bible at face value and are free to judge its teachings based on our modern sensibilities. Yes, I’ve actually heard that argument. It pretty much concedes that whoever is saying that has no foundation for their beliefs since the Bible is supposed to be the sole standard of faith in Protestantism. Once it is unreliable then the religion is completely made up. I think many Mainline Protestant denominations are at this point in their teachings.
 
"So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. And God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply"

We were created male and female for a reason. The word “matrimony” means “the making of a mother”. Neither two males nor two females in a sexual relationship can create a mother. Gay marriage is therefore impossible. Sacred Scripture is very clear on this point and to read anything else into it is to ignore God’s natural law. One the most striking ways that we are created in God’s image is the family; the two become one and through that love produce a third, very real person. This cannot happen between two people of the same sex, period.
 
I understand how people like to look at the bible as a product of its time. However, if you believe that, there’s really no reason to adhere to it as the bible itself claims to NOT be a product of its time.

Isaiah 40:8
The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.

Given that the word does indeed discuss homosexuality, it is not pertinent to dismiss it. Attempts at suggesting that passages are mistranslated doesn’t suffice. The original greek tends to solidify that homosexuality is meant.

Likewise, you have Romans 1:26-27 to contend with, which doesn’t have to use the term “homosexual” to get its point across.
The passage in Genesis is not an indictment of homosexual sex…it is a story of rape and violence against strangers…Ezekiel helps interpret the passage.

Leviticus prohibition is addressing pagan practices verses Israelite practices…the very reason that Leviticus was written was so that Israel would not follow in the footsteps of it’s pagan neighbors in how they treated their enemies in male/male victimization with captives of war and the pagan same sex ritual practices and or religious practices in general…the verse preceeding Lev.18.22 refers to Molech…the passage in Lev 22 specifically uses the word “zakhar” and in other places in scripture where it is used typrically means " man or male animal specially dedicated to a deity for some sacred function". The word “abomination” is “to’ebhah”, which typically in other passages signifies “to things that related to idolatry”…ritual uncleaness…

The Levitcal passages are related to a passage in"Deut 23:17-18, which reads: [17] “There shall be no whore [NRSV: ‘temple prostitute’] of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite [NRSV: ‘temple prostitute’] of the sons of Israel. [18] Thou shalt not bring the hire [NRSV: ‘fee’] of a whore [NRSV: female ‘prostitute’], or the price of a dog [NRSV: ‘male prostitute’], into the house of the Lord [Yahweh] thy God for any vow: for even both of these are abomination unto the Lord [Yahweh] thy God.” "Sodomite’ is a distorted translation of the Hebrew which never refers to Sodom.

In Romans chapter 1 the whole chapter is concerning the religious practices of the pagans who are now Christians…temple protitution was common…male and female temple prostituion specifically.

Corinth had a thriving prostitution temple cult…male and female. The “corrupter of boys”…pedastry was a common practice which Christians were not to engage in…older men using younger boys as sex objects in return for their patronage until the boys became men.

There are other understandings of these passages which in no way reflects any modern understanding of same sex relatinships.

“Homosexual” is a 19th century word unknown in ancient times…nor did the ancients understand the complexities of human sexuality nor biology…they believe the woman was simply an incubator for the male seed…they had no idea of the role of a woman in the exhange of biological matter…nor did they understand that the sex of the child was determined by the male…how many women throughout history suffered because they couldn’t “give their husband a son”…no one until the 19th century knew the sex of the child was determined by the male…not the female.

We seek to remain faithful to an understanding of a Christian ethic…perhaps not your ethic…but an ethic based in reason and culture which we seek to understand scripture.
 
The Bible in no way addresses same sex relationships nor does it seek to put forth an understanding of the complexity of human sexuality.
One example of Jesus’ teaching about sexuality is Mark 10:6-8 "But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’ ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh.

Clearly Jesus expects us to remain true to the sexual norms from the beginning of creation which was sex between one man and one woman in marriage.
For the most part I agree with friend CMatt’s understanding…I am not “sola scriptura”…the Bible is a product of it’s time and culture. It is not a science book, psychology book nor sociology book.
Society outside of ancient Judaism and Christianity permitted homosexuality as well as other sexually immoral behavior. It seems to me you wish to go back to the old Corinthian ways. Those Corinthians were so open-minded and Paul was just so closed-minded.
 
One example of Jesus’ teaching about sexuality is Mark 10:6-8 "But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’ ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh.

Clearly Jesus expects us to remain true to the sexual norms from the beginning of creation which was sex between one man and one woman in marriage.

Society outside of ancient Judaism and Christianity permitted homosexuality as well as other sexually immoral behavior. It seems to me you wish to go back to the old Corinthian ways. Those Corinthians were so open-minded and Paul was just so closed-minded.
While Jesus is reported to have addressed marriage IN CONTEXT…he was not addressing same sex relationships…it wasn’t on the “radar” in his discourse…he couldn’t address what wasn’t being addressed.

And of course it seems to me you didn’t read what I wrote about the passage in Corinthians…where did I state I “wished to go back to the old Corinthian ways” of temple prostitution, pedastry, child sexual exploitation? Please show me and I will retract that sentiment immediately…of course…I didn’t…but you still suggested it…in the passage often quoted in Corinthians…it also addresses truth and those who practice untruth…seems to me suggesting something I didn’t isn’t in the spirit of truth…but then…I’ll not comment futher…it would be un-Quakerly of me to do so.
 
One example of Jesus’ teaching about sexuality is Mark 10:6-8 "But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’ ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh.

Clearly Jesus expects us to remain true to the sexual norms from the beginning of creation which was sex between one man and one woman in marriage.

In this passage, Jesus was addressing divorce and marriage…not same sex relationships…he addressed the issue put to him…same sex relationships was not part of his discourse…nor the passage…nor the questions posed to him.

Society outside of ancient Judaism and Christianity permitted homosexuality as well as other sexually immoral behavior. It seems to me you wish to go back to the old Corinthian ways. Those Corinthians were so open-minded and Paul was just so closed-minded.
Again…those societies outside of Judaism permitted same sex prostitution cults…same sex relationships was never addressed…and no where in the text was it hinted at.

I fail to understand where I even remotely suggested I “wish to go back to the old Corinthian ways” of temple prostitution, sexual victimization of young boys and pagan practices…please indicate where I did so friend and I’ll retract the statement immediately.

Peace to you friend.
 
Again…those societies outside of Judaism permitted same sex prostitution cults…same sex relationships was never addressed…and no where in the text was it hinted at.

I fail to understand where I even remotely suggested I “wish to go back to the old Corinthian ways” of temple prostitution, sexual victimization of young boys and pagan practices…please indicate where I did so friend and I’ll retract the statement immediately.

What I don’t understand is why someone professing faith in Christ would suggest something patenly false…I remember a passage in Corinthians which addresses falsehoods and it’s penalty…I’ll not say anything else…it would be un-Quakerly of me to continue.

Peace to you friend.
Obviously, I would not suggest a “Friend” such as yourself would be supporting those. BTW, thanks for not being un-Quakerly.🙂 I was just referring to sexual immorality in general and how Paul was clearly against it. But I do apologize for any misunderstanding.

However, homosexual behavior was permitted. In fact, the Romans called homosexuality “Greek” in reference to Greek permissiveness of the behavior. The Romans themselves, while not encouraging homosexuality, did tolerate it.

But you did not respond to Mark 10:6-8…
 
Obviously, I would not suggest a “Friend” such as yourself would be supporting those. BTW, thanks for not being un-Quakerly.🙂 I was just referring to sexual immorality in general and how Paul was clearly against it. But I do apologize for any misunderstanding.

However, homosexual behavior was permitted. In fact, the Romans called homosexuality “Greek” in reference to Greek permissiveness of the behavior. The Romans themselves, while not encouraging homosexuality, did tolerate it.

But you did not respond to Mark 10:6-8…/
Sure I did…I highlighted my response in your dialog box…I’m not much of a “nerd” so I’m not sure how to break them out.
 
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