Pro-Life Catholics, how do you respond to this?

[Erikaspirit16]

If I’m not wrong I understand you are an educator or teacher,

I was: high school, university, and adult education for 13+ years. But I also worked for 25 years in the corporate world. Five different jobs. Lucky me. (sarcasm)

 

[Erikaspirit16]

they distrust the federal government because it is distant, unresponsive, and incompetent.

An echo of what I wrote!

But, of course, believing that the federal government is distant, unresponsive, and incompetent is a far cry from believing that the government shouldn’t exist.

As I’ve written many times before, we are all in a format–web based forum with a 3,200 character limit per post–where we have to generalize. Yes, I divided the world into two groups, and if I were writing a 500-page treatise on government, I would be 500 times more nuanced. But I think my point is valid: there are basically two groups: one thinks the federal gov. is, on the whole, doing its best to solve complicated problems and is the best solution to a lot of problems. And on the opposite side there are people who think the federal gov. is “distant, unresponsive, and incompetent” as you said. And I’m sure there are groups here and there that think the federal gov. is good in this case, but not in that one, etc. etc.

And I could certainly make an argument that in situations where almost everyone (I’m trying to be nuanced here) agrees that, for example, it’s the gov.'s job to defend the country, some people would still want to privatize the military. Haliburton, Blackwater, etc. not to mention Northrup, Boeing, Lockheed, and the whole military industrial complex. So what I’m talking about is a knee-jerk response: “Here is problem X. The federal gov. is best able to solve that.” vs. “Here is problem X. The private sector is best able to solve that.”

But we are straying from the topic of the thread…

 

[Sundiver]

If it is so bad here in the U.S. then why is everyone trying to break in from across the border? You don’t see anyone trying to break into Cuba or Venezuela except for Putin and his cronies. These are the socialist and communist regimes you are trying to copy and establish here in the U.S…
We have the best system in the world- not perfect. The Dems complain endlessly and they don’t appreciate the freedom they have.
Soros is supporting the refuge crisis on the border. He is a self proclaimed god.

 

[JanetF]

People don’t distrust the federal government because they’re anarchists; they distrust the federal government because it is distant, unresponsive, and incompetent. And it is those things by its nature – DC is, in fact, quite distant from most of America

This is spot on, but then I’m a Reaganite. Government isn’t the solution it’s the problem; however, that doesn’t mean I believe there should be less government, rather that things should be cleaned up, efficient, and free of corruption.

 

[HopkinsReb]

HopkinsReb:

People don’t distrust the federal government because they’re anarchists; they distrust the federal government because it is distant, unresponsive, and incompetent. And it is those things by its nature – DC is, in fact, quite distant from most of America

This is spot on, but then I’m a Reaganite. Government isn’t the solution it’s the problem; however, that doesn’t mean I believe there should be less government, rather that things should be cleaned up, efficient, and free of corruption.

Not to mention that we have a federalist system here. The federal government is distant, but my local board of aldermen isn’t. Few programs should be addressed at the national level.

 

[midori]

And yet… government corruption disproportionately affects those who are poor.

So, should we invade, conquer, and colonize the countries who are too corrupt to take care of themselves? Or what are we arguing in favor of doing about global poverty? Because if we just throw money at it— guess how much of the resources end up in programs, and how much of it lines the pockets of the corrupt?

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[StephieNorthCo]

A quick Google search says 9 million kids die due to poverty each yesr. A quick Google search says 56 million kids are aborted each year.

 

[HopkinsReb]

A quick Google search says 9 million kids die due to poverty each yesr. A quick Google search says 56 million kids are aborted each year.

And there is a distinct moral difference between poverty – mankind’s natural state – and deliberate mass murder.

 

[blackforest]

I haven’t read all of the responses, but there are some good ones.

My initial response, however, is that it’s nobody’s business how I vote. I know those words sound shocking during an age in which we air all of our dirty and clean laundry for all to see on social media, (or dirty laundry photoshopped to look clean). But it wasn’t along ago when pressing for peoples’ politics was considered rude and nosey, and it’s not a bad thing to hold onto at least a shred of that mentality.

If you’re a careful, prayerful, and thoughtful Catholic, there’s no way you can sin in the voting booth. Do as I do and weigh the potential body count for which each candidate will likely be responsible. And go from there.

 

[midori]

Oh, sure. But I was just pointing out that most abortions aren’t done under duress by a totalitarian regime. (Although many are!) Whereas how many of the deaths from poverty are because of widespread corruption?

I thought it was an interesting contrast, especially since abovethread, there were a number of people who were arguing that poverty could be eliminated by increased government programs. And yet, a look at the global corruption map shows the default state of most of the globe…

 

[LateCatholic]

Do you know that Republicans are far more charitable than democrats? Democrats want to do charity with other people’s money with government programs that don’t work!

A blatant mis-truth told by Republicans. The vast majority of these “donations” do not go to the poor or needy at all, but directly to their Churches. And that money could be spent on anything, new cars for the preachers, a new television camera, or in Catholics case - paying lawyers or victims of the pedophilia scandal.

Take away donations to their church and Republicans are the same if not less giving than Democrats.

Bill Gates, the greatest humanitarian of all-time in terms of money, endorsed Obama.

 

[midori]

Bill Gates, the greatest humanitarian of all-time in terms of money, endorsed Obama.

And the Gates Foundation promotes abortion as a component of humanitarian assistance.

Eliminating extreme poverty is good.

Eliminating extreme poverty by killing off the children of those living in poverty is bad.

According to the Summit’s “Summary of Commitments,” getting this many women [120 million from the world’s poorest countries] on birth control will require an additional $4.3 billion over the next eight years, one-fourth of which will be donated by the Gates Foundation.

Reading elsewhere, it’s not just contraceptives, but also things like force sterilizations, abortion, etc.

Here’s a few highlights from the organizations they’re working alongside—

The co-sponsor of the London Summit on Family Planning was the United Kingdom’s Department for International Development (DfID). This government agency contributed $261.4 million to India’s most recent forced sterilization program. This type of quota- and bounty-based population program inevitably leads to gross and widespread human rights violations. Many Indian women were rounded up and sterilized without their knowledge or consent. Bribery and threats were routine; women were offered $11 and a sari if they were sterilized, or were entered in a lottery where one woman out of thousands sterilized might have won a car, which she could not have afforded to drive anyway. NGO workers who convinced women to have sterilizations received a cash bounty, so the program was ripe for abuse and corruption, as all such programs are.

and

One DfID-funded doctor did 53 sterilizations in just two hours by flashlight and botched all 53 procedures, leaving women to lie in agony on a filthy straw-covered floor. He did not even sterilize his instruments between operations, because he was in such a rush to collect as much bounty money as he could.

and

MSI is especially active in Africa, and women commonly refer to illegal abortions as the “Marie Stopes procedure.” Workers at the MSI center in Tororo, Uganda, testified that it did many illegal abortions and also injected women with Depo-Provera shots, telling them that they were malaria treatments. In July of this year, the government of Zambia expelled Marie Stopes International for committing hundreds of illegal abortions over a period of just five months.

Melinda Gates takes the well-worn road that so many other lapsed Catholics have trod by claiming that “The [Gates] foundation doesn’t take a position on abortion.” This is like someone saying that they don’t take a position on racism while contributing millions of dollars to the Ku Klux Klan and the Aryan National Alliance.

Giving a billion dollars for eugenics isn’t really a good legacy to leave behind.

 

[catholic03]

I am not American, but if I was I would happily vote for President Trump. He defends the unborn and our Christian morals.

The Democrats and Clinton have sad views on abortion, the unborn and morality.

Saving the unborn is more important than whether or not the immigration situation in the United States is good.

 

[Brendan_64]

I’m not saying it doesn’t, but abortion is legal and promoted as a woman’s right And 40 to 50 million each year is a collosal amount of deaths. And these are the deaths of the most innocent, vulnerable children.

600,000 plus in the USA alone each year. Let that number 600,000 sink in for a moment. And it’s legal and promoted as a woman’s right to to so, even celebrated and promoted.

600,000 plus innocent people (children) are being deliberately killed each year in the USA (and 200,000 in the UK if you’re from the UK) and it is legal to do so. Surely that is a cause that ought to go to the top of the list?

 

[Brendan_64]

I agree that global poverty is a really important issue.

With regard to abortion however, the fact that it kills so many people (and the most innocent people at that) and it is not only legal, but it now seems to be being celebrated as something positive, and it seems that it is even being exported to other parts of the globe under the banner of “Women’s reproductive rights”.

 

[HopkinsReb]

HopkinsReb:

poverty – mankind’s natural state

I think this is the statement that has most disturbed me ever on CAF. A tiny percentage of the world living in luxury whilst a majority live without basic necessities is NOT a natural state.

You’re correct. A tiny percentage of the world living in luxury is not a natural state.

Poverty is our natural state. It’s unnatural that so many of us now are not poor. For most of human history, the average person lived on something like a dollar a day. Luxury is an aberration.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

You are aware, that no person or political party is perfect.
You need to make peace with this.

Also, if you believe that the issue of life (ie being protected from being killed and dead) takes precedence over the issue of quality of life (imperfect circumstances but still alive), then what’s stopping you from voting pro life and working in the homeless shelter or soup kitchen?

And despite what the activists will tell you, no particular party is the gentle and benevolent care-er of the poor.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

OP, is somebody bullying you or giving you a hard time about politics? You’re not required to give your opinion to people if you don’t feel like. In fact, it’s very impertinent for somebody to ask you, especially with the intent of browbeating you to seeing their own way.

Because the fact is, we live in a very tangled and messy society where people are too quick to fling around labels like “bigot” and “hater” without even knowing what these terms mean.

Sticks and stones, ya know

 

[midori]

Also, if you believe that the issue of life (ie being protected from being killed and dead) takes precedence over the issue of quality of life (imperfect circumstances but still alive), then what’s stopping you from voting pro life and working in the homeless shelter or soup kitchen?

That’s a really nice way of phrasing things.

 

[Jimbo]

Not actively de-humanized? So being told to drink from the toilet is OK? No showers for weeks on end is OK? Being packed like sardines in a detention center is OK? Really?

That’s fair. No, I hadn’t heard that. That is terrible and should be stopped.

However, by actively dehumanized, I mean just that. Being legally stripped of humanity and human rights. There is a difference. The horrors you describe above should be stopped, and those responsible held accountable specifically because illegal immigrants are humans, and are recognized as such by law.

The unborn are legally held as non-humans and are actively and directly killed because of it.

So let’s say you’re a normal person and you go to confession. But all your life you have focused on one issue: profanity. You confess that regularly and obsess over it. But you ignore all your other sins. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Fair point. If it was profanity, then it’s likely not a good thing. But Profanity is not equal in gravity to murder.

If my sin was something that was a lynch pin to all my other sins, a basis for them, then yes, I should focus on that first.

When my Dad had health problems late in life, his issues were multi-factorial. But the doctor focused on his 3 pack a day habit over the obesity and the lack of exercise. Because unless he could take care of that, then he couldn’t take care of the rest.