Pro-Life...High Cost of Childbirth/Delivery

[gardenswithkids]

Coming from the standpoint of a college student having a baby.

It’s HARD!..

:sad_yes: The high cost of college and the expectations that people “need” a college degree to do jobs that didn’t previously require college degrees contributes to the rising cost of health care in our society.

A number of healthcare jobs associated now require degrees and more advanced degrees than they used to. Jobs that could be done with some technical training or an AA now often expect the applicants to have Bachelors degree; jobs that used to require bachelors require Master’s degrees, etc. The costs trickle down to pay for those degrees through higher health car cost, plus the limited job opportunities for people without a college degree trickles down to put pressure on women to obtain college degrees.

*So much *out there contributes to why women choose abortion. When a bright, young woman has put several years into her education, there’s enormous societal pressure for her to get that degree. Even if child birth cost her nothing, she may not see she has any good alternatives if she doesn’t finish college. To say that women wouldn’t abort if childbirth were more affordable misses a number of other reasons that they choose abortion. When women decide to abort, they are often trying to choose something “good”–like getting an education. The pressure on people to get through college is rather intense and it increases as the job prospects without a college degree aren’t there like they once were. Some women may see abortion as the only way in which they will be able to manage to get through school, and without getting through college they don’t see that they have a chance at a decent life.

There’s many, many things wrong with this society that contributes to women choosing abortion. The health care cost associated with giving birth is only one very tiny piece of it. I believe the cost of college and the pressure on women “to get an education” because there aren’t many decent paying jobs available to people without college degrees plays a much bigger role.

 

[Kelfa28]

:sad_yes: The high cost of college and the expectations that people “need” a college degree to do jobs that didn’t previously require college degrees contributes to the rising cost of health care in our society.

A number of healthcare jobs associated now require degrees and more advanced degrees than they used to. Jobs that could be done with some technical training or an AA now often expect the applicants to have Bachelors degree; jobs that used to require bachelors require Master’s degrees, etc. The costs trickle down to pay for those degrees through higher health car cost, plus the limited job opportunities for people without a college degree trickles down to put pressure on women to obtain college degrees.

*So much *out there contributes to why women choose abortion. When a bright, young woman has put several years into her education, there’s enormous societal pressure for her to get that degree. Even if child birth cost her nothing, she may not see she has any good alternatives if she doesn’t finish college. To say that women wouldn’t abort if childbirth were more affordable misses a number of other reasons that they choose abortion. When women decide to abort, they are often trying to choose something “good”–like getting an education. The pressure on people to get through college is rather intense and it increases as the job prospects without a college degree aren’t there like they once were. Some women may see abortion as the only way in which they will be able to manage to get through school, and without getting through college they don’t see that they have a chance at a decent life.

There’s many, many things wrong with this society that contributes to women choosing abortion. The health care cost associated with giving birth is only one very tiny piece of it. I believe the cost of college and the pressure on women “to get an education” because there aren’t many decent paying jobs available to people without college degrees plays a much bigger role.

You are very correct.

I know I’m extremely lucky to be able to get my degree for free. Hubby and I are in the military…which means free college.

It’s one reason why I’m fighting so hard to finish…this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for me to get a good degree without taking out any loans.

I will never get this chance to do it again.

They are now requiring enlisted military personnel to pursue at least associate degrees in order to advance through the higher ranks.

That was unheard of only a decade ago.

I’m so lucky to have a very supportive and very Catholic husband who provides well. But, in order to be comfortable and compensate for the very real possibility that his job could go away…I need to be employable too.
That means I need to finish.

 

[Xantippe]

I think too, that while a significant number of women who have abortions are poor, that once you get into middle and higher income people there’s a crazy lack of knowledge about community resources. People who grow up lower income would be more likely to know about things like sliding scales and the free health clinic down the road. They know people who can help them or they know people who know people who can help them.

If you’ve had the advantage of money your entire life, it can be hard to figure out how to get by when it’s limited, or to learn that alternative arrangements exist.

(Of course, there’s also the values-associated shame with accessing those resources.)

Those are very good points. I had no idea until recently, for instance, how many babies are born on Medicaid.

But I think the lack of knowledge is true across all classes, it’s just different knowledge that is missing in different socioeconomic groups. Plus there’s the problem of not knowing stuff or how stuff works because you’re young.

One of the biggest skills that one needs to learn is to ASK when there’s something one needs or doesn’t know. For a lot of people, that one does not come naturally.

 

[Xantippe]

:sad_yes: The high cost of college and the expectations that people “need” a college degree to do jobs that didn’t previously require college degrees contributes to the rising cost of health care in our society.

A number of healthcare jobs associated now require degrees and more advanced degrees than they used to. Jobs that could be done with some technical training or an AA now often expect the applicants to have Bachelors degree; jobs that used to require bachelors require Master’s degrees, etc. The costs trickle down to pay for those degrees through higher health car cost, plus the limited job opportunities for people without a college degree trickles down to put pressure on women to obtain college degrees.

*So much *out there contributes to why women choose abortion. When a bright, young woman has put several years into her education, there’s enormous societal pressure for her to get that degree. Even if child birth cost her nothing, she may not see she has any good alternatives if she doesn’t finish college. To say that women wouldn’t abort if childbirth were more affordable misses a number of other reasons that they choose abortion. When women decide to abort, they are often trying to choose something “good”–like getting an education. The pressure on people to get through college is rather intense and it increases as the job prospects without a college degree aren’t there like they once were. Some women may see abortion as the only way in which they will be able to manage to get through school, and without getting through college they don’t see that they have a chance at a decent life.

There’s many, many things wrong with this society that contributes to women choosing abortion. The health care cost associated with giving birth is only one very tiny piece of it. I believe the cost of college and the pressure on women “to get an education” because there aren’t many decent paying jobs available to people without college degrees plays a much bigger role.

Yes.

It’s also a very nasty thing to wind up (as many people do) with an unfinished degree AND student loans. And that’s not at all unlikely if one has a baby in college, wed or unwed.

(This wasn’t a pregnancy issue, but a young relative dropped out of medical school with over $60k in student loans–that was a catastrophe.)

 

[1990Domer]

While grisly, those are very good points.

Abortion clinics don’t run NICUs–that cuts costs.

Also, even if there is severe malpractice (like with Kermit Gosselin), women who are abortion patients are unlikely to complain publicly or sue. That also keeps costs down.

X,

I think you meant Kermit Gosnell. The Gosselins were the family from Jon & Kate plus 8. Pennsylvania has some weird claims to fame. And Kermit was actually raided by the DEA for operating a pill mill. Then the “house or horrors” was exposed!

 

[Xantippe]

X,

I think you meant Kermit Gosnell. The Gosselins were the family from Jon & Kate plus 8. Pennsylvania has some weird claims to fame. And Kermit was actually raided by the DEA for operating a pill mill. Then the “house or horrors” was exposed!

I stand corrected–Gosnell it is.

 

[1990Domer]

:sad_yes: The high cost of college and the expectations that people “need” a college degree to do jobs that didn’t previously require college degrees contributes to the rising cost of health care in our society.

A number of healthcare jobs associated now require degrees and more advanced degrees than they used to. Jobs that could be done with some technical training or an AA now often expect the applicants to have Bachelors degree; jobs that used to require bachelors require Master’s degrees, etc. The costs trickle down to pay for those degrees through higher health car cost, plus the limited job opportunities for people without a college degree trickles down to put pressure on women to obtain college degrees.

*So much *out there contributes to why women choose abortion. When a bright, young woman has put several years into her education, there’s enormous societal pressure for her to get that degree. Even if child birth cost her nothing, she may not see she has any good alternatives if she doesn’t finish college. To say that women wouldn’t abort if childbirth were more affordable misses a number of other reasons that they choose abortion. When women decide to abort, they are often trying to choose something “good”–like getting an education. The pressure on people to get through college is rather intense and it increases as the job prospects without a college degree aren’t there like they once were. Some women may see abortion as the only way in which they will be able to manage to get through school, and without getting through college they don’t see that they have a chance at a decent life.

There’s many, many things wrong with this society that contributes to women choosing abortion. The health care cost associated with giving birth is only one very tiny piece of it. I believe the cost of college and the pressure on women “to get an education” because there aren’t many decent paying jobs available to people without college degrees plays a much bigger role.

This is so true. When I became pregnant and gave up a pretty decent career (I never saw it as such, but society looks at it that way), my MIL told me that I was wasting my degree. This was after I put her son through grad school in hopes of having a comfortable–not extravagant–life. After horrible fertility issues, a stillborn and a kid on the autism spectrum, I can honestly say I would not want it any other way. Why can’t society celebrate all life? I’m sure if there was a pre-natal test for autism, I would have told to abort. So, so sad!

 

[1990Domer]

I stand corrected–Gosnell it is.

Sorry…trying to add a little bit of levity to an absolutely horrible situation. This was one time I am glad our local media outlets did not squash this story!

 

[twf]

I don’t want to get into a universal healthcare debate- I know there are many flaws to the public health care systems administered by the provinces here in Canada… But what I don’t get is how inflated the prices for services seem to be in the US. My wife is an immigrant to Canada and it was only by the grace of God that she became eligible for the provincial (British Columbia) health care coverage the week before she ended up going into labour. We were prepared to pay out of pocket, but at the local North Vancouver hospital a natural delivery for an uninsured immigrant would have been under $2000.

As it happens she needed an emergency c-section, so the bill would have been much higher… Hence how providential it was that her coverage kicked in the week before. The Province also reimbursed us for much of the prenatal fees we had paid to the clinic. Taxes are high here, but the mandatory insurance premium levied by the Province comes to $150/month for our family of 3.

 

[ThePCWife]

Canada has lower fertility than the USA though.

 

[twf]

Canada has lower fertility than the USA though.

Not by a huge margin. Doesn’t explain $20 000 vs $2000 for the same procedure.

 

[jschwartz]

The pro-life movement, as it exists, is unholistic and sees life as ending at childbirth. Improving maternal health is an area where perhaps there can be overlap between the two communities.

 

[UbiCaritas]

Not by a huge margin. Doesn’t explain $20 000 vs $2000 for the same procedure.

At a guess, it may have to do with funding overall.

Here in the US, there are still a) a lot of uninsured/underinsured people, and b) a lot of people on Medicaid, which in some places barely reimburses cost.

In Canada, $2000 might well be SOP out of pocket because the person paying out of pocket isn’t also paying out of pocket for all the people who use the ER as a health clinic (think minor ailments easily handled by a family practice doc…if you have the insurance to see the FP doc…), or who will default on their medical bills. Universal healthcare, I imagine, translates to not very many people totally defaulting on their medical bills as many do here. (Of course, it also means an individual not being responsible for hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills as they are here, too.)

For comparison, though, delivery costs out of pocket do vary wildly here as well. I have friends who have paid out of pocket in the 8-10K range for a vaginal delivery, while others (or their insurance) were charged the cited 20K figure.

Please note that I’m not entirely in favor of universal healthcare, just as I think our current system in the US is more than a bit mad. TBH, I’m not sure what the solution is.

 

[SusanneT]

I don’t want to get into a universal healthcare debate- I know there are many flaws to the public health care systems administered by the provinces here in Canada… But what I don’t get is how inflated the prices for services seem to be in the US. My wife is an immigrant to Canada and it was only by the grace of God that she became eligible for the provincial (British Columbia) health care coverage the week before she ended up going into labour. We were prepared to pay out of pocket, but at the local North Vancouver hospital a natural delivery for an uninsured immigrant would have been under $2000.

As it happens she needed an emergency c-section, so the bill would have been much higher… Hence how providential it was that her coverage kicked in the week before. The Province also reimbursed us for much of the prenatal fees we had paid to the clinic. Taxes are high here, but the mandatory insurance premium levied by the Province comes to $150/month for our family of 3.

Thank you for raising the issue. Having had three children and been treated for miscarriage all at no cost on the British NHS I find it hard to comprehend a developed nation without a ‘free at the point of delivery’ (in both sences !) health service.

 

[ThePCWife]

The 20k is not for the same procedure, it’s for the same procedure plus a lot of extras Canadians don’t get in their hospitals. There are a lot more people to pay in the American system and fancier buildings and basic infrastructure (tables, beds and the like, before you get into medical equipment).

 

[ThePCWife]

Thank you for raising the issue. Having had three children and been treated for miscarriage all at no cost on the British NHS I find it hard to comprehend a developed nation without a ‘free at the point of delivery’ (in both sences !) health service.

The UK tax structure is pretty brutal at lower incomes to pay for the NHS. Ok, so you don’t have to pay a bill a few weeks after delivery. You just have to pay way more tax than lower-income Americans do who get the bill later.

Anyway America has a special form of Medicaid for pregnant women that is often retroactive and pays more than regular Medicaid. So we do have that kind of thing specifically for pregnant women as it stands. America’s health care has to serve a population 5x bigger than the UK’s and it’s correspondingly complex and variable by state and region.

 

[twf]

The 20k is not for the same procedure, it’s for the same procedure plus a lot of extras Canadians don’t get in their hospitals. There are a lot more people to pay in the American system and fancier buildings and basic infrastructure (tables, beds and the like, before you get into medical equipment).

There is truth to that- but I’m not sure it’s worth the disparity (paying $20k rather than $2k). We were very happy with the hospital staff and facilities. A public health nurse came to our apartment the day after we were released to check in and help with breast feeding etc. Canadians have a higher life expectancy than the US so overall we have to be doing something right.

Also… Had we wanted to we could have paid extra for a private clinic and had all those extras. It’s just not typically necessary.

 

[ThePCWife]

There is truth to that- but I’m not sure it’s worth the disparity (paying $20k rather than $2k). We were very happy with the hospital staff and facilities. A public health nurse came to our apartment the day after we were released to check in and help with breast feeding etc. Canadians have a higher life expectancy than the US so overall we have to be doing something right.

Also… Had we wanted to we could have paid extra for a private clinic and had all those extras. It’s just not typically necessary.

Canada’s demographics are completely different than America’s. Life expectancy is the same or higher broken down by ethnicity.

 

[twf]

Canada’s demographics are completely different than America’s. Life expectancy is the same or higher broken down by ethnicity.

You’ve apparently put a lot of research into the matter. I’ll bow out.

 

[randomuser]

The pro-life movement, as it exists, is unholistic and sees life as ending at childbirth. Improving maternal health is an area where perhaps there can be overlap between the two communities.

^^ This.

Hence, the term “pro-birth” being used more commonly than “pro-life,” particularly among the pro-abortion crowd. Feminists For Life, to its credit, seems to be the only pro-life organization that actually extends its pro-life policies beyond once the baby is born and more to the point of this thread, the obscenely high hospital bills (in the U.S.) for delivery. Childbirth and delivery is as much a pro-life issue as is anti-abortion legislation.** No mother who chooses life, regardless of circumstance, should have to go into debt or bankruptcy to deliver a child. That’s messed up. **