Pro-Life Hypocrisy

[Howl]

Greetings…

This is actually my first post here and I decided to start it with a doozy. When I was young, I was extremely Catholic. I taught Children’s liturgy, served on the altar, and volunteered as much as I possibly could. At one point, I had our parish priest convinced that I would become a Bishop. However, as I grew, I began developing questions that nobody in my community could (or would) answer to my satisfaction.

As I get older, I want to reconnect to my past and my religion is something I feel a particular need to reconnect to. So, I have a need to learn about some of my biggest problems and see if, perhaps, I am completely mistaken.

One of my main concerns is the Church’s devout support of the Pro Life movement. I believe in the sanctity of life. I even have difficulty eating meat because, frankly, we could grow so much more food if we didn’t have so much livestock.

My problem lies in the methods espoused by the Pro Life community. One of their major marketing methods is to juxtapose anti-abortion messages next to pictures of beautiful babies. Another one of their major marketing methods is to use extremely visceral descriptions of abortions. Take this horrible quote from www.abortionfacts.com

“This is like a breech delivery. The entire infant is delivered except the head. A scissors is jammed into the base of the skull. A tube is inserted into the skull, and the brain is sucked out. The now-dead infant is pulled out. The drawings illustrate this.”

That horrible description is combined with horribly graphic images which, frankly, I will spare you.

What happens when a woman who has had an abortion reads that? Or what happens when she sees a picture of a perfectly healthy baby juxtaposed with anti-abortion messages? Or what happens when she walks by one of the extremely common graves to ‘the unborn victims of abortion’?

If she suffers from post-abortion syndrome, she suffers greatly. One could easily argue that this sort of trauma could trigger symptoms of post traumatic stress disorder. In their zeal to protect the unborn, psychopaths who hide behind Christian ideals get to wage an organized war against those poor woman who have actually had abortions. Is this actually Christian?

The Jesus who I am down with hung out with really bad people. His crew was made up of prostitutes and tax collectors. He was such a compassionate soul that he forgave the people who crucified him. So why aren’t his followers willing to forgive those women who have abortions? And, if they are, why do they have to use abusive methods that will result in great amounts of suffering?

I think I’ll conclude this with one of my all-time favourite passages from my all-time favourite (accepted) gospel. Matthew 7:21-23 reads, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only those who do the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’”

 

[Danuska]

I do not really see those pictures in my country (Poland) or where I am staying now (the Middle East) so it is hard for me to relate to that.
But I think that you are getting it all wrong - I think those posters are meant as a warning - just go through the websites of women who suffer from post-abortion syndrome (I suggest that you go through them), how many of them were not given proper or any counselling? How many of them were not shown what it actaully means to have an abortion? Why does the official psychiatric body in the US does not recognise the syndrome - that it even exists? And since they do not recognise it, of course, they will not reach out to those women who are already suffering. Well, in the end you can blame it on those pro-lifers who put up those posters, but did anyone think about warning those women that there might be conseqences to be paid for? Why the media so often highlihgt the sob stories (at least in Europe) of women who were denied abortions but very rarely you will hear the stories of women whose lives were broken by abortion?
Having gone through some of the posts of those suffering women, it’s really heart-breaking, I think they are sometimes victims just like their unborn children - victims of the pro-choice propaganda which chooses to ignore the consequences, of abortion clinics which are just interested in making money, not really the pro-lifers - even though some of them go overboard.
I happen to know of one case of a woman suffering from post-abortion syndrome, she is from India, and I do not think that it is the posters or pictures that make her suffer because the pro-life movement is not that strong over there I believe. But she suffers nonetheless. I hope that Jesus will heal her wounds, priests have been telling her - God forgave you, now it is time you forgave yourself, but from what I know, she still cannot.

 

[Viki63]

Dear Howl,
I work with a crisis pregnancy center, and we are not allowed to use harsh pictures or descriptions when talking with the women who ask for help.
It sounds like you are upset with the church for her support of the pro-life movement, but then you say you are pro-life. It’s only the methods of some pro-life groups that offend you. That really has nothing to do with the church – we should all be pro-life even if some groups we don’t agree with use harsh methods.
Actually, the “horrible” description of abortion that you quote is pretty factual. That’s how an certain type of abortion is done. The trouble is that many many women do not know this, and are not told it when they go to an abortion center. Then they find out later, and of course are horrified at what they have done to their child. But it is not the fault of the pro-life groups, who are just trying to educate our society by revealing the truth of what goes on.
It’s better that we know, and face up to the truth of abortion, so that eventually we can put an end to it. Putting a pretty face on slavery is not what ended it.
Catholics are very willing to forgive women who have had abortions. In fact, many Christians think of them as victims, because often they feel they have no choice, are forced into abortion by parents or boyfriends, and lied to. Planned Parenthood is now on the firing line because of their policy of abetting molestation, by performing abortions on minors and not reporting the abuse to the police, just sending the victims back to the abusive situation again.
I am not so worried about the women who suffer post abortion syndrome because they might see a graphic picture, as I am about the women who will blindly walk into a planned parenthood facility tomorrow thinking that they will be treated with respect and compassion.
I hope you will get to know some crisis pregnancy volunteers, so that you’ll see that there is very seldom the kind of blame you describe. And I hope you will be sure to separate the Catholic church from groups that use harsh methods – the church certainly does not.
,

 

[GraceDK]

I know one woman that really has suffered from PAS.
I asked her one day, as she broke down weeping while she talked about her abortion from 20 years ago: “Do you think there should be anti-abortion pictures and such confrontational-type of demonstrating in our country?” She did not hesitate to say that she believed 100 percent in this method… Show people the touch reality.
Then the women who grieve will get a voice: “here is why I am grieving”… and the rest of the society will not be allowed to keep running away from their responsibility forever when they are confronted with the truth. Then they will hesitate to tell other women to get abortions…
Just like the German people were forced to see films from the Nazi-death camps … so too modern society should be forced to see what WE have done… The massacre.

Grace.

 

[turtle18]

Anything can trigger PAS. It is usually caused when a woman sees a LIVE child who is at the same age her aborted baby would have been.

I wear a crucifix and my friend who has three abortions broke down sobbing when she saw it.

 

[Newbie2]

Seems to me that while the cute-baby pictures work for some, it takes a cold, hard dose of reality to shock other women who are considering an abortion into considering what they’re really doing.

The question remains, is grossing-out or upsetting those who are not the target of such ads acceptable “collateral damage”? Some reply with a vehement “Yes”, some “it depends” and others a resounding “No”.

Personally, I think those who answer a vehement “Yes” without acknowledging that it could be upsetting to some i.e. “Too bad if it upsets women who have had abortions and feel bad about it now…they should have thought about it before they went ahead and did it” instead of “Yes, we’re sorry about that but it’s worth it to save more babies lives” lack a measure of compassion for those women who feel remorse for their actions.

What could feel much worse than the realization that you’ve killed your own baby?

 

[puzzleannie]

the Church teaches the unvarying doctrine about morality and sanctity of human life.

what various groups within the pro-life movement do with that message, including their communication styles, lobbying efforts, political strategy, and leadership, is their business. not one is a “church run” organization. Those variables differ widely among pro-life groups to the point of direct conflict (which sadly has hampered their ability to affect real political change on this issue).

If you want to bash a pro-life group for any of these things do so, but separate it from bashing the Church’s teaching on the morality and doctrine. I might further suggest that to be helpful and further the pro-life cause, such discussion and debate on strategy and tactics should be confined to judging the sucess or failure in affecting legislation, public policy and public perception, not a critique of personalities.

 

[Newbie2]

the Church teaches the unvarying doctrine about morality and sanctity of human life.

what various groups within the pro-life movement do with that message, including their communication styles, lobbying efforts, political strategy, and leadership, is their business. not one is a “church run” organization. Those variables differ widely among pro-life groups to the point of direct conflict (which sadly has hampered their ability to affect real political change on this issue).

If you want to bash a pro-life group for any of these things do so, but separate it from bashing the Church’s teaching on the morality and doctrine. I might further suggest that to be helpful and further the pro-life cause, such discussion and debate on strategy and tactics should be confined to judging the sucess or failure in affecting legislation, public policy and public perception, not a critique of personalities.

I agree about keeping separate the Church teachings and tactics, but people are the ones who impliment the fight against abortion! Don’t you think “public perception” is directly related to the personalities or how tactics are employed in the fight, Annie? I do.

You do have a good point, though, not to get bogged down in how a certain person or group may not be engaging the issue in the way that we might prefer.

 

[Ted_in_Charlott]

The Abortion issue is not even in the top 3 issues of voters this year.

1. The economy
2. The Iraq war
3. Healthcare

are the top 3. Rights of the unborn are ignored by the media, being explained away in all the normal ways.

The Pro-life crowd, in an effort to try to “shock”, displays graphic pictures of medical procedures in an effort to “shock the conscience”

As both sides have their rabid supporters and their own tactics, we who are reasonable people that wouldn’t have an abortion wondering why?

Personally, the message is right but the delivery is all wrong. Standing in front of an abortion facility praying your rosary and just being there in case there is doubt is enough.

It is like the animal that is cornered, they need options. Don’t embaress them, give them hope. A lot of people don’t know about giving up the child for adoption, care during pregnancy. I would venture to say most of these are young mothers that don’t have anywhere to go. Show them love and be a friend.

When the Adultress was about to be stoned, Jesus asked “Who is without sin can throw the first stone, and didn’t condemn her either.” We are all in this together, help these dear young scared mothers and their babies.

 

[royal_archer]

You have to separate the sin from the sinner. I believe we should have compasion for these individuals and help them to recover from their past mistakes. At the same time we must condemn the act.

Those posters are meant to help save lives. That trumps hurting someones feelings. Would you advocate ending Amber alerts (notices a child is possibly kid napped) because they may bring up bad memories for people who have assaulted children?

 

[BlaineTog]

If she suffers from post-abortion syndrome, she suffers greatly. One could easily argue that this sort of trauma could trigger symptoms of post traumatic stress disorder. In their zeal to protect the unborn, psychopaths who hide behind Christian ideals get to wage an organized war against those poor woman who have actually had abortions. Is this actually Christian?

I see no reason why that argument couldn’t be extended covering talking about abortion at all, much less fighting against it.

 

[Howl]

Why does the official psychiatric body in the US does not recognise the syndrome - that it even exists? And since they do not recognise it, of course, they will not reach out to those women who are already suffering.

The DSM-IV is incredibly flawed, but the APA is currently taking submissions for the DSM-V (which is supposed to be released in around 2011). The Post Abortion syndrome controversy is more about problems of timing. PAS symptoms generally don’t manifest themselves until at least a few years after the fact and then they are covered up by repression and denial. It can take years for repression and denial to go away and then it turns into a “Well, maybe it was the abortion, or maybe it was one of those other bad things that happened to you over the course of the last five years…” exercise.

Thank you for your reply - something tells me that Poland is significantly more advanced than North America.

If you want to bash a pro-life group for any of these things do so, but separate it from bashing the Church’s teaching on the morality and doctrine. I might further suggest that to be helpful and further the pro-life cause, such discussion and debate on strategy and tactics should be confined to judging the sucess or failure in affecting legislation, public policy and public perception, not a critique of personalities.

First off, don’t presume to talk to me like I am an ignorant child. You have neither the standing, nor the requisite respect to tell me what to do. Old Benedict there is completely forthcoming in his attacks on homosexuality, Buddhism, and Islam. He has shown a disturbing tendency to insult anyone and everyone who doesn’t believe in his view. If he actually cared about the victims who have had abortions, he would make a statement. Alas, he doesn’t really care…

Finally, Ted in Charlott - you made some incredibly good points and thank you for your reply.

 

[bilop]

What happens when a woman who has had an abortion reads that? Or what happens when she sees a picture of a perfectly healthy baby juxtaposed with anti-abortion messages? Or what happens when she walks by one of the extremely common graves to ‘the unborn victims of abortion’?

Hopefully she realizes what a horrible thing she did and repents, and heads directly to the confessional (if Catholic or Orthodox).

Why are you worried about her feelings? What about her immortal soul?

God Bless

 

[Howl]

I see no reason why that argument couldn’t be extended covering talking about abortion at all, much less fighting against it.

The more senses you engage, the deeper the affect upon the psyche. Talking about abortion is, at least, a two sided dialogue. Showing pictures of abortions is psychological abuse and, frankly, I believe that it is a hate crime.

 

[Howl]

Hopefully she realizes what a horrible thing she did and repents, and heads directly to the confessional (if Catholic or Orthodox).

Why are you worried about her feelings? What about her immortal soul?

God Bless

Or perhaps she says, “where was the Catholic Church” when I was pressured into an abortion? Where were they when I was fu**ed into my gang and got pregnant during that indignity? Where were they when I was scared, confused, lost and felt all alone?

I am worried about her feelings out of deep concern for my own immortal soul. Part of being a spiritual person is acknowledging that we should love people even more for their mistakes, not inflict emotional agony upon them for their mistakes.

 

[bilop]

Or perhaps she says, “where was the Catholic Church” when I was pressured into an abortion? Where were they when I was fu**ed into my gang and got pregnant during that indignity? Where were they when I was scared, confused, lost and felt all alone?

I am worried about her feelings out of deep concern for my own immortal soul. Part of being a spiritual person is acknowledging that we should love people even more for their mistakes, not inflict emotional agony upon them for their mistakes.

The Catholic Church doesn’t force people to have sex. Please don’t cite examples that make up 0.01% of abortions (rape, incest, life of the mother).

You do know the Church and other pro-life groups offer MANY services for unwed mothers?

Loving people DOES NOT mean saying that their sins are OK.
It’s telling the truth and supporting people in mending their souls.

If emotional agony leads to repentance and healing, I’m all for emotional agony. How are you going to avoid emotional agony when you’ve killed your own child?

God Bless

 

[gardenswithkids]

… Part of being a spiritual person is acknowledging that we should love people even more for their mistakes, not inflict emotional agony upon them for their mistakes.

We should love the people involved in abortion and pro-lifers, who may on occassion offend some women who had abortions. Jesus wants to heal us and free us from the burden of sin. He walked among sinners and He instituted the Sacrament of Confession for sinners. We can repent, seek forgiveness and we can actually *hear *the words, “I absolve you of your sin…” A great source of God’s grace and healing is available in the Sacrement of Confession to all wounded by sin.

Some pro-life ministries also reach out to help heal those who have been hurt by a past abortion. Here’s one: rachelsvineyard.org/

 

[AmyS]

The more senses you engage, the deeper the affect upon the psyche. Talking about abortion is, at least, a two sided dialogue. Showing pictures of abortions is psychological abuse and, frankly, I believe that it is a hate crime.

Do you work in law enforcement?

 

[AmyS]

f she suffers from post-abortion syndrome, she suffers greatly. One could easily argue that this sort of trauma could trigger symptoms of post traumatic stress disorder. In their zeal to protect the unborn, psychopaths who hide behind Christian ideals get to wage an organized war against those poor woman who have actually had abortions. Is this actually Christian?

You need to look up Project Rachel… It is a Catholic Ministry that is very active. iserv.net/~projrach/index.html Look up where it says “how to help others.” THIS is what the Catholic Church does for these women. The pro-life ministry at my Church has set up a 24/7 hot-line for women who have Post Abortion Syndrome.

I have always felt for the women who have had abortions. I have never met a pro-life person who hasn’t. Once when I posted in a different website that I knew it had to be hard for the women I was responded to by one of the “pro-choice” people that the women “have nothing to regret,” then the person posted a website of women boasting over the pride they had in abortions they had got. I prayed for those women.

 

[AmyS]

rachelsvineyard.org/

Howl, Rachels Vineyard and Project Rachel are the same or often work together.