PRO-LIFE MEANS PRO-SOCIAL JUSTICE by Fr. James Martin, SJ

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Great! It’s a good thing we’re a body of Christ, and different people can tackle different things. Let’s not bicker just because someone doesn’t like the term “pro-life.” I don’t feel a need to question the term “social justice,” even though I could argue it’s vague as well. We’re supposed to be on the same side here, not infighting. Everyone knows what the term “pro-life” designates. I think it’s a distraction from the goal. Some people devote their lives to fighting poverty, others child abuse, etc. Great! Some devote their lives trying to end abortion, which is also full-time work. One person can’t fight all the battles simultaneously, and there’s nothing wrong with choosing a specific area to target.
 
TCEL said:
Great! It’s a good thing we’re a body of Christ, and different people can tackle different things. Let’s not bicker just because someone doesn’t like the term “pro-life.” I don’t feel a need to question the term “social justice,” even though I could argue it’s vague as well. We’re supposed to be on the same side here, not infighting. Everyone knows what the term “pro-life” designates. I think it’s a distraction from the goal. Some people devote their lives to fighting poverty, others child abuse, etc. Great! Some devote their lives trying to end abortion, which is also full-time work. One person can’t fight all the battles simultaneously, and there’s nothing wrong with choosing a specific area to target.
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Okay so you are pro life. Do you support the death penalty?
 
A load of generalized rubbish, big on talk but very, very little on substance.

“I am pro-life. That means that I’m also pro-social justice.”

I’ve never met anyone who was opposed to “social justice,” but it is readily apparent that this term means different things to different people.

“So I am… for a living wage, for affordable health care, for adequate housing, for a humane work environment, for equal pay for women, for generous child care, for the support of the aged and the infirm.”

Now is when we drift off into the world of politics. A living wage? Affordable health care? Adequate housing and “generous child care?” Here we go again. I imagine that the way we pay for all of this is to simply lay the burden on the working class yet again, telling them that we must sacrifice in order to protect “human dignity.”

I wonder what people like this think of St. Paul’s admonition of “if you don’t work, you don’t eat?”
 
I’ll take the living wage thing more seriously when people who work for parishes are paid one. The richest parish in our diocese still paid wages to the employees which *required *an additional income to live on. How much are Fr Martin’s parish employees paid?
 
NM505StKate said:
Okay so you are pro life. Do you support the death penalty?
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The question isn’t “do you support the death penalty?” It is, do you think that the death penalty is a morally justified and legitimate punishment for certain crimes? The Church has repeatedly said through out history that it is morally permissible for legitimate authority to invoke the death penalty when justified. It used to be that stating one was “pro-life” meant that they were opposed to the abomination of legalized abortion. Now, the activists have made it into a blanket term to support all of the things they desire. I will not call myself “pro life” if that means that I also have to subscribe to the litany of progressive or “liberal” positions as contained in this article.
 
Tim_D said:
The question isn’t “do you support the death penalty?” It is, do you think that the death penalty is a morally justified and legitimate punishment for certain crimes? The Church has repeatedly said through out history that it is morally permissible for legitimate authority to invoke the death penalty when justified. It used to be that stating one was “pro-life” meant that they were opposed to the abomination of legalized abortion. Now, the activists have made it into a blanket term to support all of the things they desire. I will not call myself “pro life” if that means that I also have to subscribe to the litany of progressive or “liberal” positions as contained in this article.
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Then that isn’t pro life. What it is the fifth commandment “Thou shalt not kill”
 
NM505StKate said:
Then that isn’t pro life. What it is the fifth commandment “Thou shalt not kill”
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There is a wealth of information regarding the Church’s position behind the death penalty from almost the earliest days. A misunderstanding of the fifth commandment doesn’t negate it.
 
I disagree with the author: we have names for things because we need names for things. If a thing is specific, we need a specific name for it. If we take that name and stretch it to include many other things, we render the name itself meaningless and also have to look around for another name for the specific thing we needed a name for in the first place.

There are already words for all the different things he is talking about; we do not need to hijack the word pro-life to include all of them as well.
 
TCEL said:
“Pro-life” refers to abortion. It’s a simple designation that stuck.
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Pro-life also refers to euthanasia, capital punishment, nuclear weapons, environmental irresponsibility, etc., ad nauseam…always has, always will…and I’m a conservative…
 
Tim_D said:
“So I am… for a living wage, for affordable health care, for adequate housing, for a humane work environment, for equal pay for women, for generous child care, for the support of the aged and the infirm.”

Now is when we drift off into the world of politics. A living wage? Affordable health care? Adequate housing and “generous child care?” Here we go again.
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These are moral issues, thus their inclusion under the umbrella of social justice.
 
boldlygo said:
Pro-life also refers to euthanasia, capital punishment, nuclear weapons, environmental irresponsibility, etc., ad nauseam…always has, always will…and I’m a conservative…
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That’s fine. Politically speaking, pro-life refers to abortion. Again, I don’t mind the term anti-abortion, I’m just bemused by people who insist on de-legitimizing “pro-life” when it comes specifically to abortion. People often then throw in pot-shots of caring only about unborn life, which is a non-sequiter. It’s a distraction.
 
NM505StKate said:
Okay so you are pro life. Do you support the death penalty?
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Ah, the usual absurd comparison.
There is no contradiction whatsoever in being both pro-life (anti-abortion on demand) and pro capital punishment. Human beings in the womb are innocent. Convicted killers are not.
'Nuff said.
 
Faithdancer said:
Ah, the usual absurd comparison.
There is no contradiction whatsoever in being both pro-life (anti-abortion on demand) and pro capital punishment. Human beings in the womb are innocent. Convicted killers are not.
'Nuff said.
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You do realize that the Church does not assent to the murder of just any convicted killers, right?
 
I think the new term of using “anti-abortion” as opposed to “pro-life,” used by Students for Life, is brilliant. “Pro-life” has been compromised. It now identifies as a bunch of bible-or-rosary-thumping “prigs” who shout outside of abortion mills, with blue hair and canes, against women, who often have no solution, go in to pay abortionists to tend to them. And these same people support the death penalty, guns, and throwing off struggling women with children, or expecting a child, off the government payroll because that’s “socialism,” while so many of these blue-haired, cane-using “prigs” shouting outside of abortion businesses get all sorts of things from the government like social security (paid by my taxes) and Medicare (paid by my taxes) and other subsidies (paid by my taxes), but that’s not “socialism.” They “earned” it.

Anyway, it’s now “trendy” to be “anti,” especially by young people. They’ve been conditioned to be anti-smoking, anti-racist, anti-etc. Like Fazebook, Nitwitter, Slapsh*t, and all that other “social” stuff, it’s “trendy.” So go with it. And the rate of godless secularism is rapidly increasing among the “youngers” (thank goodness). Telling them a god opposes abortion will impact them like a wisdom tooth. So go with materialistic, scientific facts. Tell them you’re anti-death-penalty. Tell them you’re anti-racist. Tell them you’re anti-prejudice. Use empirical, materialistic, concrete, scientific facts. Use that when you tell them you’re anti-abortion. Voila! You’re made a pro-lifer.

And put your activism and even money (when you’ve got some) where your mouth is. Support social justice for all, not just the Trumpist rich. Support the down-trodden. Support with action (and money) the woman who’s facing horrendous circumstances when she’s pregnant. And that doesn’t mean just giving her diapers when she’s pregnant. She needs to buy food, clothing, shelter and an education to make her independent while dealing with an infant screaming at three in the morning with an ear infection. Will that cost money? You betcha. Who’ll pay for it? You and everyone else. Where will it come from? Your pocket. You either contribute it or else advocate that everyone else will and that will mean - gulp - “socialism.” You know - expanding things like Medicaid, WIC, AFDC, HUD and all those other socialist programs until she’s on her feet with a job that pays a living wage with benefits so she can not only care for herself and her child (or children) and will be able to pay taxes for the next one. Do all that, and the trendy anti’s will love you and become anti-abortion and even pro-life. Oh, and don’t forget, that also mean you’re anti-homophobic and all those other things that makes your toes curl. Uncurl them. LGBT people are just like you. They even now get married and work and pay taxes to pay for all those socialist programs to help woman in extreme circumstances to choose life.
 
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