Pro Life Movement

[Zerith]

1ke:

Unlike ancient Judaism, modern Judaism has no central authority, nor do they have one, unified teaching on the subject. There are various “branches” of rabbinic Judaism including Orthodox (and Hasidic), Conservative, and Reform. The latter have teachings in conflict with orthodox Jews.

Unfortunately, not all Jews are pro-life and not all of Judaism teaches abortion is wrong.

Actually, almost all the “escorts” that work at the PP where I sidewalk counsel are Jewish. Sad. Very sad.

In Judaism and Islam, you may do whatever you please with the child during the first forty days of pregnancy, I believe. In and around that length, anyway.

 

[1ke]

Zerith:

In Judaism and Islam, you may do whatever you please with the child during the first forty days of pregnancy, I believe. In and around that length, anyway.

With both Judaism and Islam, you can never speak in absolutes. They have no centralized, unified teaching authority. They are like Protestants. You can never make a statement that encompasses all Jews or all Muslims, because they go by the teachings of their particular Rabbi or Imam.

 

[Ghosty]

1ke:

Unlike ancient Judaism, modern Judaism has no central authority, nor do they have one, unified teaching on the subject. There are various “branches” of rabbinic Judaism including Orthodox (and Hasidic), Conservative, and Reform. The latter have teachings in conflict with orthodox Jews.

Unfortunately, not all Jews are pro-life and not all of Judaism teaches abortion is wrong.

Actually, almost all the “escorts” that work at the PP where I sidewalk counsel are Jewish. Sad. Very sad.

I’m well aware of the diversity in Judaism, but I tend to consider only Orthodox Judaism to be representative in any way. The other “branches” didn’t exist until very recently, even more recent than Protestantism. Prior to about 125 years ago, there were only Orthodox Jews and non-practicing Jews; any exceptions were so small as to be barely noteworthy.

I, for one, refuse to give Reform Judaism any weight in discussions of Judaism, and Conservative Judaism is younger than Reform Judaism, and is in fact a response to it.

Of course, I say this as someone who came to Faith through studying Orthodox Judaism, so I’m a bit biased perhaps. Historically, though, Reform and Conservative Judaism don’t really have a basis in ongoing Jewish theology.

Peace and God bless!

 

[1ke]

Ghosty:

I, for one, refuse to give Reform Judaism any weight in discussions of Judaism, and Conservative Judaism is younger than Reform Judaism, and is in fact a response to it.

Of course, I say this as someone who came to Faith through studying Orthodox Judaism, so I’m a bit biased perhaps. Historically, though, Reform and Conservative Judaism don’t really have a basis in ongoing Jewish theology.

Peace and God bless!

You may give them no weight and discount them as not “real” Judaism but they do not view themselves that way.

My point was merely to state that there is no equivalent of a Pope in Judaism or Islam and you cannot say “the Jews” or “the Muslims” as if they are one corporate body all believing the same thing, they do not.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

1. But, then, what are our laws about marriage? That law owns no other mixture of sexes but that which nature hath appointed, of a man with his wife, and that this be used only for the procreation of children. But it abhors the mixture of a male with a male; and if any one do that, death is its punishment. It commands us also, when we marry, not to have regard to portion, nor to take a woman by violence, nor to persuade her deceitfully and knavishly; but to demand her in marriage of him who hath power to dispose of her, and is fit to give her away by the nearness of his kindred; for, says the Scripture, “A woman is inferior to her husband in all things.” (23) Let her, therefore, be obedient to him; not so that he should abuse her, but that she may acknowledge her duty to her husband; for God hath given the authority to the husband. A husband, therefore, is to lie only with his wife whom he hath married; but to have to do with another man’s wife is a wicked thing, which, if any one ventures upon, death is inevitably his punishment: no more can he avoid the same who forces a virgin betrothed to another man, or entices another man’s wife. The law, moreover, enjoins us to bring up all our offspring, and forbids women to cause abortion of what is begotten, or to destroy it afterward; and if any woman appears to have so done, she will be a murderer of her child, by destroying a living creature, and diminishing human kind; if any one, therefore, proceeds to such fornication or murder, he cannot be clean. Moreover, the law enjoins, that after the man and wife have lain together in a regular way, they shall bathe themselves; for there is a defilement contracted thereby, both in soul and body, as if they had gone into another country; for indeed the soul, by being united to the body, is subject to miseries, and is not freed therefrom again but by death; on which account the law requires this purification to be entirely performed.

godrules.net/library/flavius/flaviusapion6.htm

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

74 AD The Letter of Barnabas “The way of light, then, is as follows. If any one desires to travel to the appointed place, he must be zealous in his works. The knowledge, therefore, which is given to us for the purpose of walking in this way, is the following. . . . Thou shalt not slay the child by procuring abortion; nor, again, shalt thou destroy it after it is born” (Letter of Barnabas 19).

137 AD The Apocalypse of Peter “And near that place I saw another strait place . . . and there sat women . . . And over against them many children who were born to them out of due time sat crying. And there came forth from them rays of fire and smote the women in the eyes. And these were the accursed who conceived and caused abortion” (The Apocalypse of Peter 25).

150 AD Didache “The second commandment of the teaching: You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not seduce boys. You shall not commit fornication. You shall not steal. You shall not practice magic. You shall not use potions. You shall not procure [an] abortion, nor destroy a newborn child” (Didache 2:1)

170 AD Mark Felix “There are some women among you who by drinking special potions extinguish the life of the future human in their very bowels, thus committing murder before they even give birth.” (Mark Felix, Christian Lawyer, Octavius chap. 30)

bible.ca/H-Abortion.htm

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

I did not say abortion was common among Jewish people in Jesus day. I said it was common practice in his day.

I referrence, the phrase “let the little children come on to me” which has been used in prolife literatue against abortion.

rephrasing my question,

Jesus being God and having foreknowledge, what of his teachings would apply to the subject of abortion both in his time and in ours time?

For example, the easy teachings would be his teachings concerning creation and marriage and having children as a blessing of God.

Can you think of something else that would apply?

“What we have here is a failure to comunicate”