Pro-Life vs Pro-Choice Candidates

[Cbus]

As someone who always voted pro-life, I’ve become discouraged by how little progress has been made on this issue as well as the lack enthusiasm that supposed pro-life candidates show for actually ending abortion.

What’s more (and this is only my opinion, so don’t flame me), is the deterioration in the quality of “conservative” politicians. I put conservative in quotation marks because their ideology barely resembles classical conservative beliefs. I apologize in advance for these uncharitable words, but they all seem to be either stupid or crazy at best. At worst, they are intentionally setting up roadblocks to our economic recovery simply to hurt the president at the expense of the American people. In good conscience, I simply cannot vote for a republican again until some fundamental changes are made within the party.

Of course, this means I will have to vote for a candidate that is mostly likely pro-choice. Should I feel guilty about this? I’m not voting for them because they are pro-choice, but in spite of it.

I’m curious how other’s feel about this dilemma.

 

[Giordano_Bruno]

the thing is… can you and the other pro lifers cover every possible scenario and still defend pro life in All of those cases. its not so black and white as you all want it to be

 

[Corki]

Protecting life is a paramount issue. The only way to support a candidate that refuses to defend innocent life is if

A) the other candidate is also not pro-life. In which case, you can support the candidate that will likely do the least harm to life.

or

B) the other candidate supports something that is also intrisically evil such as genocide or institutional racism.

Be careful of judging candidates solely on national results. When you look at individual voting records, what may seem to be a “lack of enthusiasm” is sometime a consistent voting recored to support life issues.

It’s not easy, by any means. But if someone is so immoral as to publically declare support for the killing of unborn children, that’s a pretty big indictment to overcome.

 

[Giordano_Bruno]

Protecting life is a paramount issue. The only way to support a candidate that refuses to defend innocent life is if

A) the other candidate is also not pro-life. In which case, you can support the candidate that will likely do the least harm to life.

or

B) the other candidate supports something that is also intrisically evil such as genocide or institutional racism.

Be careful of judging candidates solely on national results. When you look at individual voting records, what may seem to be a “lack of enthusiasm” is sometime a consistent voting recored to support life issues.

It’s not easy, by any means. But if someone is so immoral as to publically declare support for the killing of unborn children, that’s a pretty big indictment to overcome.

EXAMPLE for you to chew over…
should the woman whi has been raped (it could be her husband, or a stranger, friend, anyone…) should she have to endure 9 months of hell, to be followed by a lifetime of being reminded of the event every time she looks at her child?? Hmm

 

[_Abyssinia]

As someone who always voted pro-life, I’ve become discouraged by how little progress has been made on this issue as well as the lack enthusiasm that supposed pro-life candidates show for actually ending abortion.

What’s more (and this is only my opinion, so don’t flame me), is the deterioration in the quality of “conservative” politicians. I put conservative in quotation marks because their ideology barely resembles classical conservative beliefs. I apologize in advance for these uncharitable words, but they all seem to be either stupid or crazy at best. At worst, they are intentionally setting up roadblocks to our economic recovery simply to hurt the president at the expense of the American people. In good conscience, I simply cannot vote for a republican again until some fundamental changes are made within the party.

Of course, this means I will have to vote for a candidate that is mostly likely pro-choice. Should I feel guilty about this? I’m not voting for them because they are pro-choice, but in spite of it.

I’m curious how other’s feel about this dilemma.

I think you should look at what the Church has to say about voting:

In this context, it must be noted also that a well-formed Christian conscience does not permit one to vote for a political program or an individual law which contradicts the fundamental contents of faith and morals. – (CDF DOCTRINAL NOTE
on some questions regarding The Participation of Catholics in Political Life, 4)

The Church teaches that, regarding a law permitting abortions, it is “never licit to obey it, or to take part in a propaganda campaign in favor of such a law, or to vote for it” – (John Paul II, Evangelium Vitae, 73).

“When legislation in favor of the recognition of homosexual unions is proposed for the first time in a legislative assembly, the Catholic lawmaker has a moral duty to express his opposition clearly and publicly and to vote against it. To vote in favor of a law so harmful to the common good is gravely immoral” – (CDF Considerations regarding Proposals to Give Legal Recognition to Unions between Homosexual Persons, 10).

80+ Pro Life Laws have been passed this year, I would not call that little progress.

lifesitenews.com/news/a-reason-to-celebrate-80-pro-life-laws-passed-this-year/

The Bishops approved a document called Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship, it is basically voting guidelines, you can read it here: usccb.org/faithfulcitizenship/FCStatement.pdf

“as Catholics we are not single-issue voters. A candidate’s position on a single issue is not sufficient to guarantee a voter’s support. Yet a candidate’s position on a single issue that involves an intrinsic evil, such as support for legal abortion or the promotion of racism, may legitimately lead a voter to disqualify a candidate from receiving support.”

 

[Nate13]

At worst, they are intentionally setting up roadblocks to our economic recovery simply to hurt the president at the expense of the American people. In good conscience, I simply cannot vote for a republican again until some fundamental changes are made within the party.

haha don’t be fooled by such nonsense. The president had two years where he was able to pass whatever he wanted to pass. If a trillion dollars didn’t get the job done why would half that much? What people don’t get is there is a difference between saying the government “makes jobs” and the government “makes jobs possible”. The question you should be asking is why the president won’t call for a revamping of the tax code instead of trying to tweak the broken one we already have. The answer is he would like to eat his cake and keep it too. He doesn’t want the tax code to change because then he wouldn’t be able to give tax breaks to all his pet green jobs. You will hear him curse the oil subsidies and corporate jet tax loopholes, but strangely we never hear him complaining about the all the green companies that get off paying few to none taxes. Both sides are playing the system with agenda’s in mind, just figure out who’s agenda your ready to buy into if either. I don’t buy into either sides agenda personally (Big Government vs Big Business), but rather put myself on the side of the family.

 

[_Abyssinia]

As someone who always voted pro-life, I’ve become discouraged by how little progress has been made on this issue as well as the lack enthusiasm that supposed pro-life candidates show for actually ending abortion.

What’s more (and this is only my opinion, so don’t flame me), is the deterioration in the quality of “conservative” politicians. I put conservative in quotation marks because their ideology barely resembles classical conservative beliefs. I apologize in advance for these uncharitable words, but they all seem to be either stupid or crazy at best. At worst, they are intentionally setting up roadblocks to our economic recovery simply to hurt the president at the expense of the American people. In good conscience, I simply cannot vote for a republican again until some fundamental changes are made within the party.

Of course, this means I will have to vote for a candidate that is mostly likely pro-choice. Should I feel guilty about this? I’m not voting for them because they are pro-choice, but in spite of it.

I’m curious how other’s feel about this dilemma.

I think you should look at what the Church has to say about voting:

**In this context, it must be noted also that a well-formed Christian conscience does not permit one to vote for a political program or an individual law which contradicts the fundamental contents of faith and morals. – (CDF DOCTRINAL NOTE
on some questions regarding The Participation of Catholics in Political Life, 4)
**
The Church teaches that, regarding a law permitting abortions, it is “never licit to obey it, or to take part in a propaganda campaign in favor of such a law, or to vote for it” – (John Paul II, Evangelium Vitae, 73).

"When legislation in favor of the recognition of homosexual unions is proposed for the first time in a legislative assembly, the Catholic lawmaker has a moral duty to express his opposition clearly and publicly and to vote against it. To vote in favor of a law so harmful to the common good is gravely immoral" – (CDF Considerations regarding Proposals to Give Legal Recognition to Unions between Homosexual Persons, 10).

80+ Pro Life Laws have been passed this year, I would not call that little progress.

lifesitenews.com/news/a-reason-to-celebrate-80-pro-life-laws-passed-this-year/

Lots of reports of abortion clinics closing because of pro life laws being passed and having an impact: lifenews.com/

The Bishops approved a document called Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship, it is basically voting guidelines, you can read it here: usccb.org/faithfulcitizenship/FCStatement.pdf

One of the statements made in this document is:

"as Catholics we are not single-issue voters. A candidate’s position on a single issue is not sufficient to guarantee a voter’s support. Yet a candidate’s position on a single issue that involves an intrinsic evil, such as support for legal abortion or the promotion of racism, may legitimately lead a voter to disqualify a candidate from receiving support."

 

[ChadS]

EXAMPLE for you to chew over…
should the woman whi has been raped (it could be her husband, or a stranger, friend, anyone…) should she have to endure 9 months of hell, to be followed by a lifetime of being reminded of the event every time she looks at her child?? Hmm

Are you absolutely sure that is always the case to risk another human life on it? Has the victim lost all capacity to love due to this event? Are we to have a standard other than God’s – i.e. to punish the child for the sins of the father?

ChadS

 

[Xntrik]

I put conservative in quotation marks because their ideology barely resembles classical conservative beliefs. I apologize in advance for these uncharitable words, but they all seem to be either stupid or crazy at best. At worst, they are intentionally setting up roadblocks to our economic recovery simply to hurt the president at the expense of the American people. In good conscience, I simply cannot vote for a republican again until some fundamental changes are made within the party.

Of course, this means I will have to vote for a candidate that is mostly likely pro-choice. Should I feel guilty about this? I’m not voting for them because they are pro-choice, but in spite of it.

You can vote for someone like Keyes (he’s Catholic, too! ); he ran on the Independent ticket in the last election. IMHO, voting for a pro-infanticist is just about tantamount to the unpardonable sin.

 

[Nate13]

EXAMPLE for you to chew over…
should the woman whi has been raped (it could be her husband, or a stranger, friend, anyone…) should she have to endure 9 months of hell, to be followed by a lifetime of being reminded of the event every time she looks at her child?? Hmm

I’m confused…why would her child remind her of her raper as opposed to the baby Jesus? But forgive me your solution is much better. Murdering someone always solves problems. I’m sure that the only way she would ever be reminded of that horrible event is when she looked at that particular child, not just every time she saw a baby or had sex. By your reasoning she probably should just never have a child let alone have sex afterwards since it is only going to remind her of that awful event You can’t solve one injustice by committing another. If one person gets robbed and has their heart get damaged, you can’t solve it by taking another healthy person and forcing them to allow you to cut out their heart so you can perform a heart transplant on the other patient. You may feel great because you have apparently solved one injustice, but it only came at the expense of someone else. The proper response to injustice is justice.

 

[Giordano_Bruno]

Are you absolutely sure that is always the case to risk another human life on it? Has the victim lost all capacity to love due to this event? Are we to have a standard other than God’s – i.e. to punish the child for the sins of the father?

ChadS

Not being a woman, i cannot answer this fully, but i cannot believe you would say that…who are we to decide about someones capacity to love in such a situation. This is my original point… each situation is different, Surely the victim should decide the outcome… Never mind the unborn child in this case, what about the trauma of the woman?

 

[Nate13]

Not being a woman, i cannot answer this fully, but i cannot believe you would say that…who are we to decide about someones capacity to love in such a situation. This is my original point… each situation is different, Surely the victim should decide the outcome… Never mind the unborn child in this case, what about the trauma of the woman?

liberals/socialists…picking and choosing winners and losers since forever…

You have an interesting string of thought here though…next time you commit a crime of any degree we will let the person that it affects determine the punishment for you even if its the death penalty. After all, surely the victim should decide the outcome right?

 

[ChadS]

Not being a woman, i cannot answer this fully, but i cannot believe you would say that…who are we to decide about someones capacity to love in such a situation. This is my original point… each situation is different, Surely the victim should decide the outcome… Never mind the unborn child in this case, what about the trauma of the woman?

It seems to me you have decided already that the woman can’t love this child or shouldn’t. Your last line of “never mind the unborn child” speaks volumes.

ChadS

 

[Z_Ninja]

EXAMPLE for you to chew over…
should the woman whi has been raped (it could be her husband, or a stranger, friend, anyone…) should she have to endure 9 months of hell, to be followed by a lifetime of being reminded of the event every time she looks at her child?? Hmm

I suppose I should have told a friend in high school that his mother went through hell for 9 months carrying him and is reminded of her rape and traumatized every time she looked at him all those years. And will continue to suffer for her lifetime.

We are called to protect innocent lives. This includes the unborn child and the mother.

 

[Giordano_Bruno]

liberals/socialists…picking and choosing winners and losers since forever…

You have an interesting string of thought here though…next time you commit a crime of any degree we will let the person that it affects determine the punishment for you even if its the death penalty. After all, surely the victim should decide the outcome right?

yes. i agree…

 

[Nate13]

I suppose I should have told a friend in high school that his mother went through hell for 9 months carrying him and is reminded of her rape and traumatized every time she looked at him all those years. And will continue to suffer for her lifetime.

We are called to protect innocent lives. This includes the unborn child and the mother.

yeah I’ll make sure to tell my girlfriend that as well considering she is one of those babies to which Giordano Bruno says “never mind them…”

 

[Giordano_Bruno]

I suppose I should have told a friend in high school that his mother went through hell for 9 months carrying him and is reminded of her rape and traumatized every time she looked at him all those years. And will continue to suffer for her lifetime.

We are called to protect innocent lives. This includes the unborn child and the mother.

your friend is one person… What about the rest who may feel differently… As I said… Each case is different.

 

[Nate13]

your friend is one person… What about the rest who may feel differently… As I said… Each case is different.

We live in a society where “heroic virtue” is now routinely called “heroic stupidity”. Also I happen to personally know someone who fits your situation. Seems like a pretty common situation considering how quickly we have come up with examples that we personally know.

 

[Giordano_Bruno]

your friend is one person… What about the rest who may feel differently… As I said… Each case is different.

Maybe I should tell my friend that she should change her opinion of her assault and rape by two men. She couldnt face bringing up a baby that she couldnt afford to raise… She never wanted children. What was she to do??

 

[Giordano_Bruno]

I’m confused…why would her child remind her of her raper as opposed to the baby Jesus?

Nice response!!! come down to earth