Pro-Potter or Anti-Potter?

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Seeing the plethora of Harry Potter threads that have cropped up recently, I became curious as to how many people here are for or against Harry Potter. I am also interesetd in how you came about finding yourself in one camp or the other (or somewhere in between). I started on one end, but am now leaning towards the other.

I was anti-Potter for a long time. Not that I went out of my way to bash the series or campaign against it. I just thought it was, more likely than not, evil.

I only had a peripheral sense of the series growing popularity when I read an article in Envoy magazine that was very much against the series. As I had never read an article in Envoy that I disagreed with and as I am predisposed to disliking whatever is “popular” I pretty much wrote off the series. I figured, if I have the time to read, I’d rather re-read The Lord of the Rings or The Chronicles of Narnia.

The pro-Potter people also turned me off with such arguments as “It’s only fiction” and "If you haven’t read the books, then you just don’t know what you’re talking about. It reminded me of the same line of thought that “DaVinci Code” supporters used. This rubbed me the wrong way because, first, I’m not stupid and I realize it’s fiction. Fiction still influences people. Second, just because you haven’t read the book doesn’t mean you can’t discuss general principles (I can argue against the historical inaccuracies found in the DaVinci Code without knowing the plot points). I admit, though, that I never spoke out against Harry Potter. I didn’t feel I had enough info to do that. But I deferred to people like Micheal O’Brien (whom I respected) when they made distinctions between the type of magic found in Harry Potter and that in LotR or Narnia.

More recently, I discovered that a priest friend of mine loves the series. (He bought the 7th book and read it that weekend). As he is fiercely orthodox in his beliefs and very much liturgically minded (no improv Masses for him!), I started to have second thoughts. My wife and I have watched the first four movies recently (I know, I know, watch the movies before reading the books? :eek: ) I also read The Mystery of Harry Potter: A Catholic Family Guide. And I must say, I think I’m coming around. Now I understand what the pro-Potter camp is saying when they say that the magic in HP is not the same thing as the occult. Of course, I’ll reserve final judgment until I get the chance to read all the books myself.

I would like to hear from people as to why you are pro-Potter or anti-Potter. Did you read something somewhere? Did a trusted friend make a recommendation? Did you read the books yourself and then come to your decision?

I’m not looking to start another debate on the morality of Harry Potter. I’m just looking for the reasons behind your beliefs one way or the other.
 
I was anti-Potter for a long time. Not that I went out of my way to bash the series or campaign against it. I just thought it was, more likely than not, evil.

But I deferred to people like Micheal O’Brien (whom I respected) when they made distinctions between the type of magic found in Harry Potter and that in LotR or Narnia.
I’m not a fan of HP, and I haven’t read any of the books or seen any of the movies. Respectfully, here’s why:
Deuteronomy 18:9-13
Detestable Practices
9 When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. 10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in [a] the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. 12 Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. 13 You must be blameless before the LORD your God.
Also, I’m not that familiar with this website, but found this article interesting:
The most prominent Potter critic in North America, Catholic novelist and painter Michael O’Brien commented to LifeSiteNews.com on the “judgement” of now-Pope Benedict saying, “This discernment on the part of Benedict XVI reveals the Holy Father’s depth and wide ranging gifts of spiritual discernment.” O’Brien, author of a book dealing with fantasy literature for children added, “it is consistent with many of the statements he’s been making since his election to the Chair of Peter, indeed for the past 20 years - a probing accurate read of the massing spiritual warfare that is moving to a new level of struggle in western civilization. He is a man in whom a prodigious intellect is integrated with great spiritual gifts. He is the father of the universal church and we would do well to listen to him.” (emphasis mine)
My husband and sister and many friends love HP – they see nothing wrong with it. I don’t try to force them to stop liking it, but I won’t be reading them to my little girl. While those of us with strong faith may not fall victim to spiritual warfare via HP, people without a strong faith, who have not dedicated their lives to Jesus may not have the awareness of how evil can penetrate our lives without us even realizing it. I see HP as another step on a slippery slope, and the fact that it’s aimed mostly at children is scary.

My conscience was what initially told me to stay away from HP, and I was happy to find that the Word of God and the word of the Pope confirmed my original thoughts. That’s enough for me.

God bless, and I hope your thread doesn’t get nasty (I know sometime it happens, which is a shame). :hug1:

Additionally, here’s an excerpt from The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis. While it is a work of fiction, it portrays what many believe may be close to actual spiritual warfare tactics. It’s very interesting:
Devil to his nephew:
You understood me correctly. All you have to do is make them doubt I exist. If you can’t quite get them to believe that, the next best thing is make them believe that my servants are really good guys. Get them to believe that what is evil is not to bad by calling it fiction. Oh and be sure to have them make fun of anyone who points out it is evil. Before you know it we will have them and their children in our clutches laughing all the way to us.
 
I am Catholic and Pro-Potter (sounds like a 12 step intro, no?)

I started out not interested. Then I read alot of articles about how “dangerous” it was. I also heard from pro-Potter people (my husband actually who, incidently, brought me back to the Catholic Church)that I should read the books before I made a decision on whether they’re good or bad. My husband got me a book called Looking for God in Harry Potter by John Granger. It seemed there was more to the books than I was hearing.

This was when the 5th book came out. My husband borrowed it from a friend. I figured I had better be up to speed on the books, especially since we have two daughters (too young for Potter, but since teachers are all ga ga over them they’re likely to be around awhile). I read the first 5 in quick succession and really enjoyed them! I could easily see what John Granger was talking about!

I have read the first 3 to my 8 year old and have had some very good discussions on bullying, discrimination, cheating, following rules/why there are rules etc. They are also good books to show writing tools such as foreshadowing, character development and narrative misdirection.

If you want some more indepth writings about Harry Potter visit hogwartsprofessor.com/ Its John Granger’s website (he’s a member of the Orthodox Church) there are lots of articles on the christian content in HP as well as the current hubbub now in the media.

Just wanted to add that the Granger site as well as jimmyakin have addressed the comments by the pope.
 
OK–I’ll bite. I’m one of those who enjoy the novels.

In the beginning, my oldest son wanted to read the books back when the first movie was in the theater. However, we said that he had to read the book before seeing the movie. So–aware that there was controversy, I began reading what people had to say. And then I read the book (first one) myself.

Well, part of the reason that I have said ‘read the books before condemning them’ is that I found in my reading that the ‘anti-HP novels’ crowd had terribly mis-represented what is in the books. I’ve said before that if the Harry Potter novels were as the “Harry-is-evil” camp claimed, I would not have continued reading, nor would I have allowed my oldest son to read the novels.
 
I’ve read all the book ( don’t have time for the movies)

My general opinion is that the books after the first two are simply not suitable for children, outside possibly the later teens.

In these books, the ‘good’ side seems to be able to do whatever the ‘evil’ side does, only they attempt to justifiy it better.

The prime example are Harry use of torture against Bellatrix Lastrange (‘Order of the Phoenix’ in revenge for killing Harry’'s godfather) and against Amycus Carrow ( in revenge for spitting on Harry’s favorite teachers face)

In addition, the Auror’s (the magical police) are permitted to use the torture spell.

I do not find a book where the ‘hero’ uses torture with impunity ( and simply for revenge purposes, as if torture could be justified at all). And compound that with the use of State sponsored torture, I can’t see how it would be appropriate for children to read these books.

Rawlings should have stuck to the premise of the first two books, where ‘love’ and ‘good’ had their traditional meanings.
 
OK–I’ll bite. I’m one of those who enjoy the novels…
Melissa,

Could you tell me your honest thought about how you felt when you read about Harry using the Cruciatus Curse on Amycus Carrow in the last book?

Did you feel any objection, were you uncomfortable, or did you ‘root’ for Harry, thinking that Carrow had it coming to him?
 
Catholic anti-Potterist here. But my anti-Potterism has nothing to do with my Catholicism. Instead, it has to do with my aesthetic sensibilities. J. K. Rowling is a hack who will soon go into the dustbin of literary history, and each and every Harry Potter movie has been a waste of time and money (but not talent, since little talent was evidenced in any of them).

– Mark L. Chance.
 
I don’t fall into any of those categories.

I’m an atheist who is neither pro-Potter nor anti-Potter. I don’t read the books, but I do enjoy the movies.

I don’t think the Dumbledore thing is a big deal at all.
 
Catholic anti-Potterist here. But my anti-Potterism has nothing to do with my Catholicism. Instead, it has to do with my aesthetic sensibilities. J. K. Rowling is a hack who will soon go into the dustbin of literary history, and each and every Harry Potter movie has been a waste of time and money (but not talent, since little talent was evidenced in any of them).

– Mark L. Chance.
Hahahaha, have you ever seen the movies? They’re amazing, it’s obvious that a huge amount of talent and care and love went into them.

And none of the movies going lower than 79% on RottenTomatoes.com supports that.
 
Hahahaha, have you ever seen the movies? They’re amazing, it’s obvious that a huge amount of talent and care and love went into them.
I said I’d seen them. Why assume I’m lying? The movies aren’t amazing. They’re boring, trite, rely entirely too much on typically untalented young actors, and have plot holes large enough to drive mobile homes through which are lamely hidden by overwrought special effects.
And none of the movies going lower than 79% on RottenTomatoes.com supports that.
:rolleyes:

– Mark L. Chance.
 
I said I’d seen them. Why assume I’m lying? The movies aren’t amazing. They’re boring, trite, rely entirely too much on typically untalented young actors, and have plot holes large enough to drive mobile homes through which are lamely hidden by overwrought special effects.

:rolleyes:

– Mark L. Chance.
And what would you consider to be comparable and superior to the Harry Potter movies?
 
Then it shouldn’t be difficult to name 5 or 6 for me.
Okay, just to keep you happy, in no particular order:

1-3. Every one of Peter Jackson’s Lord of the Rings movies.
4. You Kill Me.
5. Rope.
6. Young Frankenstein.

Now, does posting this list some how invalidate my opinion that the Harry Potter movies are drek?

– Mark L. Chance.
 
Seeing the plethora of Harry Potter threads that have cropped up recently, I became curious as to how many people here are for or against Harry Potter. I am also interesetd in how you came about finding yourself in one camp or the other (or somewhere in between). I started on one end, but am now leaning towards the other.

I was anti-Potter for a long time. Not that I went out of my way to bash the series or campaign against it. I just thought it was, more likely than not, evil.

I only had a peripheral sense of the series growing popularity when I read an article in Envoy magazine that was very much against the series. As I had never read an article in Envoy that I disagreed with and as I am predisposed to disliking whatever is “popular” I pretty much wrote off the series. I figured, if I have the time to read, I’d rather re-read The Lord of the Rings or The Chronicles of Narnia.

The pro-Potter people also turned me off with such arguments as “It’s only fiction” and "If you haven’t read the books, then you just don’t know what you’re talking about. It reminded me of the same line of thought that “DaVinci Code” supporters used. This rubbed me the wrong way because, first, I’m not stupid and I realize it’s fiction. Fiction still influences people. Second, just because you haven’t read the book doesn’t mean you can’t discuss general principles (I can argue against the historical inaccuracies found in the DaVinci Code without knowing the plot points). I admit, though, that I never spoke out against Harry Potter. I didn’t feel I had enough info to do that. But I deferred to people like Micheal O’Brien (whom I respected) when they made distinctions between the type of magic found in Harry Potter and that in LotR or Narnia.

More recently, I discovered that a priest friend of mine loves the series. (He bought the 7th book and read it that weekend). As he is fiercely orthodox in his beliefs and very much liturgically minded (no improv Masses for him!), I started to have second thoughts. My wife and I have watched the first four movies recently (I know, I know, watch the movies before reading the books? :eek: ) I also read The Mystery of Harry Potter: A Catholic Family Guide. And I must say, I think I’m coming around. Now I understand what the pro-Potter camp is saying when they say that the magic in HP is not the same thing as the occult. Of course, I’ll reserve final judgment until I get the chance to read all the books myself.

I would like to hear from people as to why you are pro-Potter or anti-Potter. Did you read something somewhere? Did a trusted friend make a recommendation? Did you read the books yourself and then come to your decision?

I’m not looking to start another debate on the morality of Harry Potter. I’m just looking for the reasons behind your beliefs one way or the other.
I was not anti-Potter until the Dumbledore sexuality question arose.

(( I should like to state that IF Dumbledore is a non-practicing SSA sufferer, as opposed to the opposite, then the only problem I have with JK is her non-disclosure of this fact, and not that she would include an SSA sufferer in her works per se. ))

It’s precisely the massive popularity, and good use of, the books in the service of making reading a GREAT THING TO DO for children, and non-readers, that makes it such an evil that JK has done.

A bomb disguised as a treat is a very bad thing, even if it was enjoyed for quite some time as a great and useful toy.

It’s the blast that harms,… not the nifty “good stuff” which is only bait.

And I also consider the movies to be quite banal, other than the relatively good special effects.

I’m sure the books were MUCH better, they would have to be to be of such interest to the kids, and kids at heart.

But tasty poison is even more despicable than an honest, nasty tasting, poison.

(( The number of pro-potter Catholics is very disgusting to me, personally. ))

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.
 
Okay, just to keep you happy, in no particular order:

1-3. Every one of Peter Jackson’s Lord of the Rings movies.
4. You Kill Me.
5. Rope.
6. Young Frankenstein.

Now, does posting this list some how invalidate my opinion that the Harry Potter movies are drek?

– Mark L. Chance.
Uh…you missed the point.

I’m not asking you to give me a list of movies that are simply better than Harry Potter. I can do that myself. Saying ‘Harry Potter is stupid, Citizen Kane is way better’ is meaningless.

I’d like you to tell me where a story similar to Harry Potter has been done better. As in, a fantastical, epic coming of age type saga.

Yes, Lord of the Rings is great.

It just seems to me that you’re discounting it because it’s popular.
 
Melissa,

Could you tell me your honest thought about how you felt when you read about Harry using the Cruciatus Curse on Amycus Carrow in the last book?

Did you feel any objection, were you uncomfortable, or did you ‘root’ for Harry, thinking that Carrow had it coming to him?
No, I did not like the fact that Harry was using (and in previous books attempted to use) Dark magic. However, I consider the last book to be suitable for children no younger than 14 (oldest son hasn’t read it yet). The most important thing for children at that stage to understand is that your choices in aggregate determine character, and a bad choice is not irredeemable. There’s plenty of room for discussion with an older child ‘should he?’ and ‘what should he have done instead?’
 
I was not anti-Potter until the Dumbledore sexuality question arose.

It’s precisely the massive popularity, and good use of, the books in the service of making reading a GREAT THING TO DO for children, and non-readers, that makes it such an evil that JK has done.

A bomb disguised as a treat is a very bad thing, even if it was enjoyed for quite some time as a great and useful toy.

It’s the blast that harms,… not the nifty “good stuff” which is only bait.

And I also consider the movies to be quite banal, other than the relatively good special effects.

I’m sure the books were MUCH better, they would have to be to be of such interest to the kids, and kids at heart.

But tasty poison is even more despicable than an honest, nasty tasting, poison.

(( The number of pro-potter Catholics is very disgusting to me, personally. ))

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.
RIGHT, because JK Rowling spent years and years writing 7 books just so she could finally reveal that Dumbledore is gay.
 
RIGHT, because JK Rowling spent years and years writing 7 books just so she could finally reveal that Dumbledore is gay.
I personally think she was “persuaded” by her secular “cool kid friends” (“progressive” literati buds of her’s) to drop a “homosexuals (prefereably sexually-practicing) are not sinful in their acts” message after the fact (post completion).

But, in any case, this ambiguous position on homosexuality is a bomb,… and it’s going off BIG TIME in society.

That the bomb does what you want doing is neither here nor there to the effect produced by the bomb.

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.
 
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