Problem in my carmelite group

[Le_Bonvivant]

Thank you for the kind replies everyone. Many of your answers and suggestions have helped me out.

@Angel12:
I do not attend the formation meetings yet as I have only just joined the group. They have their program in the morning and then later I and some others who haven’t started formation yet join in the afternoon. Still it’s said by the same person who does the formation, who I think is called a friar in English.

@Zgraf:
I understand what you’re saying. I’m not afraid of trials, but my problem is that it must not become the focal point of my spirituality either. It’s a way of thinking that makes me feel depressed, that it’s God who would send me trials contiously, that everytime something bad happens it would be a sign of God. There are people who think the opposite way as well, that everytime something goes wrong it’s Satan trying to get them down.

@tis Bearself:
Defenitely, it would be terrible to tell that to a mother.

@Francis:
Excactly, those are some uplifting words I can better relate to.

@OTJM:
For now I do not get anything but doubts from this group so for me it’s better not to keep going to this. It may also be, that no matter how much I love Therese of Lisieux, it doesn’t immediately mean that Carmelite spirituality is for me. What was relevant to this great saints life may not completely work for me as well. The life of a 24 year old nun in france in the 1890’s is different than my life.

@JimR-OCDS:
It’s the same kind of Carmelites as you Jim. There is a spiritual director, but to be honest it’s someone i can relate to. However it shouldnt really matter if i like this person or not, my problem is with the things he teaches.

@Adgloriam:
Exactly, the danger with people who are full of talk of things of God being tests for others and things like that are often the ones who wouldn’t be able to stand a simple ‘test’ themselves.

 

[goout]

God is not the cause of evil. At the same time God brings good out of evil. In this God asks for our response and cooperation.

It seems to me that the way this was worded to you ascribes to God a motivation in willing evil to accomplish his purposes, which isn’t quite right.

 

[guanophore]

God tests every true believer

I have difficulties with the concept of “true believer”. It is as if a distinction is being made that some persons in the pew are “true” while others are not. Now we know that there are tares among the wheat, but it is the angels who sort them at the end, not the human beings. So who are we to determine who is “true”?

Anyway, back to the thread topic, this mindset reminds me of the primitive spirituality reflected in the OT. They believed that God was omnipotent, therefore, everything that happened was caused by Him directly. There are certainly sufficient trials in life through which we can be perfected in faith that we don’t need to go looking for more!

I don’t agree that every soul experiences a dark night. I think we all go through periods where are faith is tested, but realistically, this happens on a daily basis to lesser degrees.

I would urge you not to go by your emotional reaction to this group, but focus on the spiritual benefit (or lack of it) for yourself. Your inner witness that they might be missing the mark may be an opportunity for you to be tested with regard to your community. It is a challenge for us to love and embrace others in fellowship when we have divergent spiritual experiences. Perhaps you have something to add to this group!

 

[guanophore]

I would have ripped off their head and spit down their throat.

I think you have nailed the reason that God allows such painful events in our lives. He intends to perfect our character through suffering. I think this framework is much more useful than characterizing it as a “test”. It is a fact that human beings get very “testy” when suffering, and tend towards reacting out of our base and carnal nature. It is a supreme challenge to be perfected in grace at such times.

 

[angel12]

It may also be, that no matter how much I love Therese of Lisieux, it doesn’t immediately mean that Carmelite spirituality is for me. What was relevant to this great saints life may not completely work for me as well. The life of a 24 year old nun in france in the 1890’s is different than my life.

This is quite true. Also, not everyone who is drawn to Carmelite spirituality has a vocation to join the secular order. Since you are drawn to her, I would suggest you continue to read her writings, and read about her. She may lead you to the teachings of other Carmelite saints, as she led me to St. John of the Cross.

 

[otjm]

I will gladly and openly admit I am not perfected in grace yet. By any means. And a little over 34 years ago, we almost lost one of our twin daughters at age 9 months. Had anyone said… yeah, my reaction would not have been pretty.

 

[guanophore]

perfected in grace

None of us will be until our final purification. Suffering brings out our most base carnal nature. This is why it is such a valuable experience for sanctification.

 

[anon10271182]

After a false start or two, I just started reading “Ascent” again. It’s so gorgeous, and so deep, and I’m taking it slow and re-reading frequently for real understanding. Trying to average one chapter per day.
Sorry about the group difficulties. Maybe you could start a discussion group here?
Pax et bonum!

 

[mbmulkern]

I don’t belie e that God “tests” you by taking your child or any other unfortunate thing. That is really sad I can understand why you are disheartened. Bad things happen because we are still in this world filled with imperfection and evil not because God wants you to suffer. I don’t know who is teaching you this but maybe you should take a break from this group