Problem with a friend: Do I need boundaries or more charity?

[Irishmom2]

Don’t want to sound “mean” but…it seems to me that when you know a guy is romantically interested in you and you don’t share those feelings, that hanging out with them 2-3 times a week is not wise. My goodness…that’s a lot of free time being spent with someone, giving them “hope” of something that isn’t going to happen. You both need to be developing other friendships, too.

Since you aren’t a real forceful person, I would compose an email stating the truth…that you have enjoyed the friendship, but don’t share the romantic feelings and it is best to change the direction. Limit “hanging out” to a couple times a month (and if possible, include others in that time).

No, he won’t like it…but it seems the most charitable thing to do.

Yup, this. You have been so busy trying not to hurt his feelings, nothing has really changed for him. He sees you all he wants. Says he knows you are just friends while filling all of your days because you have allowed it.

You have to change the dynamics. Maybe you actually can’t be just friends with him anymore. If you get a new boyfriend-- do you see the 3 of you socializing together? No. Are you going to want to worry about fitting this guy into your life when you have a boyfriend? Probably not.

Cutting him loose might be nicer.

 

[Viki63]

I second all these comments.
I would just add, that I can relate to this guy. I was not raised with good social boundaries, and was very lonely for some years. I would drop by friends’ houses, it was pretty relaxed and we were all young, people came in and out, and I would end up staying until bedtime.
I later realized how inappropriate this was, and if I think about it I’m embarrassed that I didn’t know better. If my friends had been less courteous, not wanting to hurt my feelings, I probably would have figured it out sooner. But they were very kind.
You will be doing this guy a favor by setting boundaries, and improving his future social life. He needs to learn what is appropriate in a friendship and what is not.
So don’t feel guilty at all. He will be grateful someday.
By the way, I would talk to him in person, to tell him that two or three times a month is what you had in mind, but I would do it with someone else in the house, or at a restaurant - somewhere you’re not alone. Just in case, as others have suggested.

 

[Xantippe]

I second all these comments.
I would just add, that I can relate to this guy. I was not raised with good social boundaries, and was very lonely for some years. I would drop by friends’ houses, it was pretty relaxed and we were all young, people came in and out, and I would end up staying until bedtime.
I later realized how inappropriate this was, and if I think about it I’m embarrassed that I didn’t know better. If my friends had been less courteous, not wanting to hurt my feelings, I probably would have figured it out sooner. But they were very kind.
You will be doing this guy a favor by setting boundaries, and improving his future social life. He needs to learn what is appropriate in a friendship and what is not.
So don’t feel guilty at all. He will be grateful someday.
By the way, I would talk to him in person, to tell him that two or three times a month is what you had in mind, but I would do it with someone else in the house, or at a restaurant - somewhere you’re not alone. Just in case, as others have suggested.

Yes.

If you take away his hope in a future romantic relationship, it’s unpredictable how he may behave. Make sure you do it either by email or in a safe public place. And maybe make sure to warn a friend or family member or two in a little bit in advance, just in case, so that if things go bad, you don’t have to tell a long backstory before getting help from them.

 

[SecretGarden]

I wouldn’t email and set the boundaries. I hate to say this: but it is the chicken way out and it could cause some issues later on. It is better to set them on the telephone with a family member present for moral support.

I would ask yourself what are your boundaries and begin to set them over a period of a few months. That way it will give him some time to get used to them and you some time to set them and keep them. If you wavier he will not take them seriously.

If you wish you could use us as a sounding board.

Tell us what would you like those boundaries to be and let us help you set them.

 

[Xantippe]

I wouldn’t email and set the boundaries. I hate to say this: but it is the chicken way out and it could cause some issues later on. It is better to set them on the telephone with a family member present for moral support.

**I don’t see that going well, especially as the OP is a mild-mannered person who has previously let him have his way so much.

It’s really hard to say exactly what you want to say and no more and no less in a real-time situation with somebody who is trying to steamroll you.

Also, phone calls are getting to be somewhat unusual and archaic among the young.

techcrunch.com/2010/11/13/alexia-phone-home/**

I would ask yourself what are your boundaries and begin to set them over a period of a few months. That way it will give him some time to get used to them and you some time to set them and keep them. If you wavier he will not take them seriously.

If you wish you could use us as a sounding board.

Tell us what would you like those boundaries to be and let us help you set them.

 

[queentakesjack]

Thank you all for the wonderful suggestions. I am seriously taking them all into consideration. If you all don’t mind I think I would like to use you guys as a soundboard as SecretGarden suggested. I’m going to start scaling it back slowly because as many have pointed out that it is also my fault for letting him think this behavior is acceptable. I’m going to tell him today face to face that I won’t be seeing him again until next week. I genuinely am busy with some things and I’m just going to say to him that “I’ve got a lot of things that I need to get done and will not be able to see him until next week and that I probably will not be able to talk much on the phone either.”

I want to see how he does with this little boundary first before I tell him how our entire friendship dynamic has to change. If he can accept it and act accordingly then I think there is hope for our friendship because we have been friends for 10 years. But if even this is hard for him then as many mentioned then maybe going back to being friends will be too difficult for him and in that case it is time to dissolve the friendship.

I don’t think he’d ever hurt me, but at the same time isn’t that what everyone says because you truly just can never predict a person’s behavior. I have told my mother of the situation and she is supporting me. On top of which my uncle is a sheriff’s deputy so if things get too scary I have him, but I honestly don’t see it getting like that. But to be safe I do have a sound support system in place and someone who knows how to deal with such situations.

If he can handle a week with this little boundary well, then I think these are the boundaries that I’d like to put in place permanently. I’d like to limit seeing him to once a week and only for 4 hours tops. I say 4 hours because we volunteer at my parish’s food pantry and so on those days we can be there for a while but that is the maximum limit and I will be firm that sometimes it will be less than that. As for the phone I’d only like to to talk or text maybe twice a week. If he can’t comply with these then I think it would be best just not to be friends anymore.

I’m going to try and gauge how I break it to him by how well he does with just me limiting this week’s interactions with him. If he does well then I will sit him down face to face and tell him what ThyKingdomCome suggested which I thought was very kind but also direct “I’ve mistakenly given you the wrong message. I’ve told you I’m interested in you as a friend, but the level that we have been doing things together, it is too much like a dating relationship. That has to change, because my feelings haven’t. I value your friendship, but to remain friends, I’m going to need to make a little more space between us.” I might add some more in there like maybe “I feel like your feelings are never going to change if we keep spending this much time together and I’m worried our friendship will not be able to survive at all if we don’t give each other space to breathe. I need time to myself and I think this is what is best for both of us in the end. I value your friendship but I do not want a romantic relationship with you. If being friends in this way is too difficult for you (referring to the boundaries I will set in place) then I think we should just go our separate ways from now on.” What do you guys think? Is this a good way to approach the situation by starting small and then if he can handle it just have the big frank talk?

If he doesn’t do well respecting that I’m busy this week then I think it would be best to tell him over the phone that I need space away from him and that his behavior is leading me to believe that maybe just being friends is not possible for us. I mean if he can’t leave me alone for just one week then I think it is a more serious problem that would be best to be dealt with from a distance. Does that sound like a good strategy to you all?

 

[Xantippe]

Thank you all for the wonderful suggestions. I am seriously taking them all into consideration. If you all don’t mind I think I would like to use you guys as a soundboard as SecretGarden suggested. I’m going to start scaling it back slowly because as many have pointed out that it is also my fault for letting him think this behavior is acceptable. I’m going to tell him today face to face that I won’t be seeing him again until next week. I genuinely am busy with some things and I’m just going to say to him that “I’ve got a lot of things that I need to get done and will not be able to see him until next week and that I probably will not be able to talk much on the phone either.”

I want to see how he does with this little boundary first before I tell him how our entire friendship dynamic has to change. If he can accept it and act accordingly then I think there is hope for our friendship because we have been friends for 10 years. But if even this is hard for him then as many mentioned then maybe going back to being friends will be too difficult for him and in that case it is time to dissolve the friendship.

I don’t think he’d ever hurt me, but at the same time isn’t that what everyone says because you truly just can never predict a person’s behavior. I have told my mother of the situation and she is supporting me. On top of which my uncle is a sheriff’s deputy so if things get too scary I have him, but I honestly don’t see it getting like that. But to be safe I do have a sound support system in place and someone who knows how to deal with such situations.

If he can handle a week with this little boundary well, then I think these are the boundaries that I’d like to put in place permanently. I’d like to limit seeing him to once a week and only for 4 hours tops. I say 4 hours because we volunteer at my parish’s food pantry and so on those days we can be there for a while but that is the maximum limit and I will be firm that sometimes it will be less than that. As for the phone I’d only like to to talk or text maybe twice a week. If he can’t comply with these then I think it would be best just not to be friends anymore.

I’m going to try and gauge how I break it to him by how well he does with just me limiting this week’s interactions with him. If he does well then I will sit him down face to face and tell him what ThyKingdomCome suggested which I thought was very kind but also direct “I’ve mistakenly given you the wrong message. I’ve told you I’m interested in you as a friend, but the level that we have been doing things together, it is too much like a dating relationship. That has to change, because my feelings haven’t. I value your friendship, but to remain friends, I’m going to need to make a little more space between us.” I might add some more in there like maybe “I feel like your feelings are never going to change if we keep spending this much time together and I’m worried our friendship will not be able to survive at all if we don’t give each other space to breathe. I need time to myself and I think this is what is best for both of us in the end. I value your friendship but I do not want a romantic relationship with you. If being friends in this way is too difficult for you (referring to the boundaries I will set in place) then I think we should just go our separate ways from now on.” What do you guys think? Is this a good way to approach the situation by starting small and then if he can handle it just have the big frank talk?

If he doesn’t do well respecting that I’m busy this week then I think it would be best to tell him over the phone that I need space away from him and that his behavior is leading me to believe that maybe just being friends is not possible for us. I mean if he can’t leave me alone for just one week then I think it is a more serious problem that would be best to be dealt with from a distance. Does that sound like a good strategy to you all?

Yes.

The best plan is the one that you can follow through on.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

…Does that sound like a good strategy to you all?

Sounds good! Prayers for you to say the words you need to say, and for him to hear what he needs to hear.

 

[EasterJoy]

Thank you all for the wonderful suggestions. I am seriously taking them all into consideration. If you all don’t mind I think I would like to use you guys as a soundboard as SecretGarden suggested. I’m going to start scaling it back slowly because as many have pointed out that it is also my fault for letting him think this behavior is acceptable. I’m going to tell him today face to face that I won’t be seeing him again until next week. I genuinely am busy with some things and I’m just going to say to him that “I’ve got a lot of things that I need to get done and will not be able to see him until next week and that I probably will not be able to talk much on the phone either.”

I want to see how he does with this little boundary first before I tell him how our entire friendship dynamic has to change. If he can accept it and act accordingly then I think there is hope for our friendship because we have been friends for 10 years. But if even this is hard for him then as many mentioned then maybe going back to being friends will be too difficult for him and in that case it is time to dissolve the friendship.

I don’t think he’d ever hurt me, but at the same time isn’t that what everyone says because you truly just can never predict a person’s behavior. I have told my mother of the situation and she is supporting me. On top of which my uncle is a sheriff’s deputy so if things get too scary I have him, but I honestly don’t see it getting like that. But to be safe I do have a sound support system in place and someone who knows how to deal with such situations.

If he can handle a week with this little boundary well, then I think these are the boundaries that I’d like to put in place permanently. I’d like to limit seeing him to once a week and only for 4 hours tops. I say 4 hours because we volunteer at my parish’s food pantry and so on those days we can be there for a while but that is the maximum limit and I will be firm that sometimes it will be less than that. As for the phone I’d only like to to talk or text maybe twice a week. If he can’t comply with these then I think it would be best just not to be friends anymore.

I’m going to try and gauge how I break it to him by how well he does with just me limiting this week’s interactions with him. If he does well then I will sit him down face to face and tell him what ThyKingdomCome suggested which I thought was very kind but also direct “I’ve mistakenly given you the wrong message. I’ve told you I’m interested in you as a friend, but the level that we have been doing things together, it is too much like a dating relationship. That has to change, because my feelings haven’t. I value your friendship, but to remain friends, I’m going to need to make a little more space between us.” I might add some more in there like maybe “I feel like your feelings are never going to change if we keep spending this much time together and I’m worried our friendship will not be able to survive at all if we don’t give each other space to breathe. I need time to myself and I think this is what is best for both of us in the end. I value your friendship but I do not want a romantic relationship with you. If being friends in this way is too difficult for you (referring to the boundaries I will set in place) then I think we should just go our separate ways from now on.” What do you guys think? Is this a good way to approach the situation by starting small and then if he can handle it just have the big frank talk?

If he doesn’t do well respecting that I’m busy this week then I think it would be best to tell him over the phone that I need space away from him and that his behavior is leading me to believe that maybe just being friends is not possible for us. I mean if he can’t leave me alone for just one week then I think it is a more serious problem that would be best to be dealt with from a distance. Does that sound like a good strategy to you all?

Wait, wait, wait–what do you mean, “see how he does with this little boundary”? Why would you tell him you aren’t going to see him next week because you are busy when you have no intention of going back to seeing him as much as you have, even when you’re not busy? You don’t think he’s going to see through this as time goes on?

I would go with “Jack, I think we’re making a mistake with this ‘just friends’ thing. I like spending time with you, but X hours a week is too much for me. It does not feel right. I think we need to just break up for a while, like normal people do. Then maybe, after awhile, we’ll go back to spending time with each other two or three times a month.”

If that is what you want, then say so. It is enough for you to say, “What we have does not feel right to me. This doesn’t feel like being ‘just friends.’ I want to try something different.” Then try something different. You don’t have to apologize because you are also finding your way socially. Don’t be too hard on him and don’t be too hard on yourself, either.

 

[LongingSoul]

I think Queentakesjacks plan will have the advantage of showing up what’s really going on with the guy. It could just be that he is socially ignorant of her boundaries, but it could also likely be that he is deliberately trying to win her over or break down her defenses by imposing his presence.

If she buts in boundaries and follows through consistently, she is not going to be vulnerable to either of the above tactics.

 

[queentakesjack]

Wait, wait, wait–what do you mean, “see how he does with this little boundary”? Why would you tell him you aren’t going to see him next week because you are busy when you have no intention of going back to seeing him as much as you have, even when you’re not busy? You don’t think he’s going to see through this as time goes on?

I would go with “Jack, I think we’re making a mistake with this ‘just friends’ thing. I like spending time with you, but X hours a week is too much for me. It does not feel right. I think we need to just break up for a while, like normal people do. Then maybe, after awhile, we’ll go back to spending time with each other two or three times a month.”

If that is what you want, then say so. It is enough for you to say, “What we have does not feel right to me. This doesn’t feel like being ‘just friends.’ I want to try something different.” Then try something different. You don’t have to apologize because you are also finding your way socially. Don’t be too hard on him and don’t be too hard on yourself, either.

I’m planning on telling him I’m busy this week to see how well he will react to it before I have the talk with him because if he reacts badly to just this little week then I will have to flat out tell him I don’t think we can be friends at all because then it would be obvious he is way too attached to me for that to happen. But if he does well and respects that I’m busy this week and gives me space then it will show me that we have a chance at just being friends. I’m only telling him I’m busy for this week for that purpose only I don’t intend to keep telling him I’m busy every week. Like LongingSoul said I just want to get a feel for where his head is at. If he pushes me at all this week after I politely tell him that I’m busy and can’t hang out or talk much, then I will know for sure that the “let’s just be friends” talk isn’t going to work and that I need to have a “we can’t be friends anymore” talk instead. I hope that makes more sense.

 

[3DOCTORS]

Two words: Assertiveness Training. Get thyself to Google or find a book on it at the library.

 

[SecretGarden]

I think you are on the right track. Instead of you going right out and say something you don’t want to see him until next week, wait for him to ask if you are free to meet and then say you are busy this week with some stuff that way it will come more naturally and less rehearsed. You have your plan but he doesn’t need to know it. Plus if you end up telling him in person, make sure you bring a guy friend with you. He doesn’t have to be there but close by such as at the restaurant or some place where it would be easy for the two of you to run into each other.

It’s all about waiting for the right moment and then pouncing on it. I would seriously pray about it and ask God to lead you for the right time. I have done this and it has helped greatly.

I like your idea of saying you are busy that week and if he persists, you can be honest and simply tell him the truth. (If you are in person, make sure someone is present just in case)

That said, depending on how he reacts, you might have to stop volunteering at that place and find another place to volunteer at because if he becomes a jerk, there then you should bring it up the people in charge because sometimes people can’t handle just being friends. In their mind they are in love with you and that’s where the trouble begins. Sometimes you have to cut 100% (which I suspect you might have to do) in order to keep your sanity.

You mentioned, your uncle is a sheriff, I suggest that you speak with him as well and tell him everything you told us and ask him what he would do. When I was breaking up with an abusive boyfriend, I actually called the police up and asked them how to break up with him so I wouldn’t need them. The policeman in my city was awesome and I have passed his advice numerous times to other young ladies.

Please let us know what he says so that if there is another young woman in your position, who reads this thread she will also know what to do.

It takes a lot of guts to ask your question and who knows perhaps your question will help another sister in Christ.

Keep us posted and keep using us as a sounding board.

We are here for you.

 

[queentakesjack]

I told him Thursday that I’d be busy and he was curious why I was so busy this week but as I said I genuinely am busy this week so I told him my plans. It has been two days since and I haven’t heard from him at all not even my phone so hopefully things are looking well for the let’s be friends talk with real boundaries. Thank you everyone so much for your support and advice. I will keep you updated if things change and how the eventual talk will go. :flowers:

 

[Xantippe]

I told him Thursday that I’d be busy and he was curious why I was so busy this week but as I said I genuinely am busy this week so I told him my plans. It has been two days since and I haven’t heard from him at all not even my phone so hopefully things are looking well for the let’s be friends talk with real boundaries. Thank you everyone so much for your support and advice. I will keep you updated if things change and how the eventual talk will go. :flowers:

Very good!

For future reference, don’t feel that you need to tell him every single detail of your schedule or justify it to him.

When one adult tells another adult, “I can’t. I’m busy then,” that’s the signal for the other to say, “OK!” and move on.

 

[EasterJoy]

I’m planning on telling him I’m busy this week to see how well he will react to it before I have the talk with him because if he reacts badly to just this little week then I will have to flat out tell him I don’t think we can be friends at all because then it would be obvious he is way too attached to me for that to happen. But if he does well and respects that I’m busy this week and gives me space then it will show me that we have a chance at just being friends. I’m only telling him I’m busy for this week for that purpose only I don’t intend to keep telling him I’m busy every week. Like LongingSoul said I just want to get a feel for where his head is at. If he pushes me at all this week after I politely tell him that I’m busy and can’t hang out or talk much, then I will know for sure that the “let’s just be friends” talk isn’t going to work and that I need to have a “we can’t be friends anymore” talk instead. I hope that makes more sense.

Yes, that does make more sense. I think he’s way too attached for anything but just an old-fashioned breaking up period to work at this point, but you know him better and one never can tell. It is important to choose a route that you’re going to feel comfortable looking back on, too. I’ve taken someone else’s route a time or two, and you have to be ready for it to go down in flames. I’d rather go down in flames with my own hand-picked plan than someone else’s, but that also depends on you.

 

[EasterJoy]

I told him Thursday that I’d be busy and he was curious why I was so busy this week but as I said I genuinely am busy this week so I told him my plans…

I do not like the grilling. He’s gotten some idea that you have to have a reason not to spend time with him. He needs to be disabused of that idea. It may be as simple as saying, “You don’t think that you are entitled to spend time with me if I don’t have something else concrete scheduled, do you? I have news for you: My time is my time, and I don’t have to make an account of it to you.”

 

[queentakesjack]

I see what you are saying EasterJoy and you are very right. He does feel entitled to my time I feel and I want to address this with him. So far it has been 3 days and I haven’t heard a peep from him so this makes me hopeful. I really want to try and salvage the friendship if I can because we’ve been friends for a really long time and he really is a good person I just feel his feelings for me are too much and he’s become desperate to hold on to me in the hopes I will someday feel the same way for him. So I want to at least try this little week trial before sitting him down with the ultimatum of either give me some space and start acting like a real friend would or just leave me alone completely. But I will definitely keep what you said about the entitlement to my time comment when I do confront him about his behavior at the end of the week.

 

[EasterJoy]

I see what you are saying EasterJoy and you are very right. He does feel entitled to my time I feel and I want to address this with him. So far it has been 3 days and I haven’t heard a peep from him so this makes me hopeful. I really want to try and salvage the friendship if I can because we’ve been friends for a really long time and he really is a good person I just feel his feelings for me are too much and he’s become desperate to hold on to me in the hopes I will someday feel the same way for him. So I want to at least try this little week trial before sitting him down with the ultimatum of either give me some space and start acting like a real friend would or just leave me alone completely. But I will definitely keep what you said about the entitlement to my time comment when I do confront him about his behavior at the end of the week.

It is possible to run a guilt trip on generous people by slipping this little presumption past them. Once you recognize the presumption involved in these “little” guilt trips, it makes it much easier to draw a line and say, “Hey, I don’t have to make an accounting to you. You’re presuming that you own me. I won’t stand for that.” When you call them on it, they might try to backpedal or act offended that you’d “accuse” them of such a thing, but they don’t have a leg to stand on. The rules that apply to all your other friends and the limits you put on yourself with regards to even your most generous friends also apply to him. Hold him to it.

 

[queentakesjack]

Well it has officially been a week and I haven’t seen or heard from him at all so things are looking up. Next time I see him I plan to address some of the issues a little at a time so I don’t bombard him but I do want to remain firm and resolute and not let myself feel guilt tripped into anything. I also am practicing on how to tell other people that I’m busy means I’m busy and I don’t have to explain why and that I would like to spend time by myself that day is a perfectly acceptable answer. Again I can’t thank you all enough! Thank you guys so much for all of your advice. I will definitely be taking it and putting it into practice,