Problems with Fr Barron's Catholicism

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I enjoyed the Catholicism DVDs and introduced the series to our parish. But it didn’t work as well as I’d hoped. The numbers dropped each week.
Perhaps it is too theologically deep or maybe ordinary folk just aren’t that interested in Clark’s Civilisation as a model.

Has anyone else found that it didn’t go as well as they had hoped?

Perhaps it was the approach of Carl Olson’s Workbook.
 
Interesting. I look forward to answers. I just bought the work books from the Church. Start classes in a couple weeks
 
It worked quite well in a parish near me, but that parish is exceptionally educated (intellectually sophisticated). I haven’t followed its introduction anywhere else.

The live discussions which were part of the presentation were thoughtful and insightful, with contributors picking up on some of Barron’s threads such as the concept of firm but nonviolent confrontation when unjustly accused or when encountering more general injustice.
 
.Our parish did it, and attendance was good. I wonder, did you use the workbooks that came with the series? That was helpful to stimulate thought and sharing. Sometimes timing can effect turnout…like summer months when folks are traveling.
 
I like Fr. Barron’s YouTube videos; he’s sharp and articulate and has a gift for engaging the culture and defending the faith. But I wanted this to be something different. It is packaged like a documentary, but the style is more in the vein of apologetics. We still need a documentary series which is not only factual and orthodox, but also a documentary series.
 
In my parish, we have gone over that program, videos plus workbook, and there was some attrition, but not enough to worry me.

I think a lot depends on the expectations of the participants. If they were thinking it would be just like watching TV, then they would have been surprised. Compared to typical television documentaries, the Catholicism videos are deep, as you say, full of information and fairly fast-paced. They really demand that you listen closely and think, or you might miss the point.

The readings in the workbook are similarly weighty (as they are based on the same content), and may be difficult for participants who are not used to reading about scripture study, philosophy, and catechism. The “questions for understanding” demand that the participant read the material ahead of time. In other words, participants must do their homework! Those questions will not be very helpful to someone who just shows up to watch the videos.

As I write this, I can envision two approaches that might work for different target groups.
  • For more scholarly parishioners, the sort who might participate in other workshop-style programs (e.g., scripture study, Why Catholic), use the workbook but make it clear that participants should read the chapter and answer the “questions for understanding” ahead of time, so that they can participate in and benefit from the discussions.
    By the way, my Catholicism video+workbook group developed as an extension of a Why Catholic study group, so the participants were already self-selected and primed for a workbook-based approach.
  • For those who don’t want to do all that work, you could run a separate program without the workbook. Just watch the video and discuss it over refreshments. In case the discussion falters or drifts off topic, the leader/facilitator would have to be prepared to redirect the conversation and perhaps review key points and ask questions.
I have not organized any such programs myself, so I cannot give you much more advice.

May the Holy Spirit bless your parish and assist you in your efforts.
 
Beryllos said:
In my parish, we have gone over that program, videos plus workbook, and there was some attrition, but not enough to worry me.

I think a lot depends on the expectations of the participants. If they were thinking it would be just like watching TV, then they would have been surprised. Compared to typical television documentaries, the Catholicism videos are deep, as you say, full of information and fairly fast-paced. They really demand that you listen closely and think, or you might miss the point.

The readings in the workbook are similarly weighty (as they are based on the same content), and may be difficult for participants who are not used to reading about scripture study, philosophy, and catechism. The “questions for understanding” demand that the participant read the material ahead of time. In other words, participants must do their homework! Those questions will not be very helpful to someone who just shows up to watch the videos.

As I write this, I can envision two approaches that might work for different target groups.
  • For more scholarly parishioners, the sort who might participate in other workshop-style programs (e.g., scripture study, Why Catholic), use the workbook but make it clear that participants should read the chapter and answer the “questions for understanding” ahead of time, so that they can participate in and benefit from the discussions.
    By the way, my Catholicism video+workbook group developed as an extension of a Why Catholic study group, so the participants were already self-selected and primed for a workbook-based approach.
  • For those who don’t want to do all that work, you could run a separate program without the workbook. Just watch the video and discuss it over refreshments. In case the discussion falters or drifts off topic, the leader/facilitator would have to be prepared to redirect the conversation and perhaps review key points and ask questions.
I have not organized any such programs myself, so I cannot give you much more advice.

May the Holy Spirit bless your parish and assist you in your efforts.
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We had them in our parish last year and while I liked it very much, there was a few things I was a bit uncomfortable with. I thought they may be a bit above the ones who didn’t understand the Catholic Faith. Maybe that’s why some drifted away. We really need something that helps the confused, uneducated Catholic. And after what we have been thru the past 50 years or so, there are plenty of them around. And the DVD’s are sooo expensive that many people can’t afford to buy them for home use. I have watched it several times on EWTN and learned more each time. And I have had the good fortune to have belonged to Catholics United For the Faith, and teaching CCD for many years in a very orthodox Catholic Church. And I had a very Holy Uncle Priest, (of happy memory) that helped me a lot during those troubled times. Seems the Converts, and Catholic Answers Forum has many of them on her staff, are some of the best informed and educated Catholics. I have learned so much from them too. Thank God we have these wonderful teachers in these troubled times. God Bless, Memaw
 
Been through it and the numbers were consistent and we hated when we had to miss for any reason.

It’s an outstanding course and one of the most visually inspiring videos I’ve ever seen.

I learned a boatload!
 
Jim_in_Scotland said:
I enjoyed the Catholicism DVDs and introduced the series to our parish. But it didn’t work as well as I’d hoped. The numbers dropped each week.
Perhaps it is too theologically deep or maybe ordinary folk just aren’t that interested in Clark’s Civilisation as a model.

Has anyone else found that it didn’t go as well as they had hoped?

Perhaps it was the approach of Carl Olson’s Workbook.
Click to expand...
When my parish was presented with the videos, I quickly realized that our talks before and after the video were less about the content and more about the emotional response of the couple who presented it.

I heard over and over about how they felt, the wife wanted to sing before the group started every week, and the husband seemed to only care for how he felt about the information that was given. They would stop the video at parts they liked and they actually fast forwarded through a part about the crucifixion because it made the wife upset.

The group didn’t feel organic because the people who were leading it were emotional and controlling.

It was a mess and I left after the 3rd tape.
 
kmuestwin said:
When my parish was presented with the videos, I quickly realized that our talks before and after the video were less about the content and more about the emotional response of the couple who presented it.

I heard over and over about how they felt, the wife wanted to sing before the group started every week, and the husband seemed to only care for how he felt about the information that was given. They would stop the video at parts they liked and they actually fast forwarded through a part about the crucifixion because it made the wife upset.

The group didn’t feel organic because the people who were leading it were emotional and controlling.

It was a mess and I left after the 3rd tape.
Click to expand...
Eek! :eek: What a mess! Sorry you had such a bad experience.

Try to catch it again under better circumstances.
 
Thankyou for your thoughts on this.
I asked for views from the participants at our current Study - Edward Sri’s Biblical Walk through the Mass.

I was surprised that they wanted to do more home-study. I had thought that simply using the DVDs, with a chance for some chat would have been preferred.
Perhaps my research simply shows that people who liked that sort of thing, tended to like that sort of thing.
 
Jim_in_Scotland said:
I enjoyed the Catholicism DVDs and introduced the series to our parish. But it didn’t work as well as I’d hoped. The numbers dropped each week.
Perhaps it is too theologically deep or maybe ordinary folk just aren’t that interested in Clark’s Civilisation as a model.

Has anyone else found that it didn’t go as well as they had hoped?

Perhaps it was the approach of Carl Olson’s Workbook.
Click to expand...
I think the problem with his work like many contemporary works deal with trying to appeal through beauty. The “beauty” is not always recognizable in this day and age where men and women think of it in terms of subjectivity.

So to try and make them feel attracted to be “Catholic” or to reinforce it with this sort of series doesn’t usually help much. People just take in the eye candy and leave and they don’t want to come in the next time because they know other places to get “eye candy”.

The biggest mistake in the modern Church is trying to appeal to people using what they think they want => beauty, love, happiness etc. Then the Church just becomes like a commercial that is competing for attention. Fr. Barron’s video tends to fall in the advertising category.
 
I somewhat agree with your post 12, Jaberwocky, with the exception of this:

When the series was shown in a parish local to me, the viewers most intrigued and seemingly moved were the tentative Catholics (one foot in the door, one foot out, meaning cradle Catholics but not active). My take on the series is that it is more for insiders, actually, than outsiders. If you don’t have a context for Fr.Barron’s remarks, you’re not going to appreciate his more philosophical understanding of some of Jesus’ sayings, nor will the beauty resonate in a way other than aesthetic.

So what I’m saying is that it is has more evangelical value as Homecoming material, i.m.o. (And some of the attendees, the ones most enamored and responsive, were of the same background as the groups who attend the Homecoming series which is offered in that same parish.) I think that it’s a great tool for the Coming Home Network, and of course the televised commercials of the latter do appeal to emotion and beauty, very much so. For those outside the Church, it’s hard to tell the effect.
 
Elizabeth502 said:
I somewhat agree with your post 12, Jaberwocky, with the exception of this:

When the series was shown in a parish local to me, the viewers most intrigued and seemingly moved were the tentative Catholics (one foot in the door, one foot out, meaning cradle Catholics but not active). My take on the series is that it is more for insiders, actually, than outsiders. If you don’t have a context for Fr.Barron’s remarks, you’re not going to appreciate his more philosophical understanding of some of Jesus’ sayings, nor will the beauty resonate in a way other than aesthetic.

So what I’m saying is that it is has more evangelical value as Homecoming material, i.m.o. (And some of the attendees, the ones most enamored and responsive, were of the same background as the groups who attend the Homecoming series which is offered in that same parish.) I think that it’s a great tool for the Coming Home Network, and of course the televised commercials of the latter do appeal to emotion and beauty, very much so. For those outside the Church, it’s hard to tell the effect.
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Very good point and I agree with you completely.

I think as you said the series is effective as a final push for someone already leaning very much toward the Church or to return to it. It probably reinforces the decision at that stage and can make them take that final jump in.

The difficulty with someone outside is that as with any issue, the more emotional arguments do not help. Since our society is not attuned to viewing topics like beauty and love from the more reasonable and philosophical view (love and beauty have infact become the examples given for subjectivism), the arguments using these that are present in Barron’s video just appear in a completely emotional way. Therefore I think it becomes less effective.
 
I’ve watched most of the series when its been aired on EWTN. I ensured I was focused on the episode as there is a lot going on. I think its an excellent series and well done.
 
A neighboring parish to mine just started this series where we can watch the video and then have a discussion time afterwards. I absolutely love the series and have seen some other other episodes through another prayer group I am a member. It is so profound and really pulls you into the depth and beauty of the Catholic faith. It is such a blessing to be able to take part and learn more about my faith.

My only wish about this series is that there was an accompanying answer key to the study workbook. My discussion group really doesn’t have the time to go over all of the questions and I am so interested in the topics and really want to learn it and I am afraid I may learn it in an incomplete way. I’ve looked on Amazon and on the Catholicism website and there are no answer keys available for individual purchase. I was even hoping to find a forum that talks about this to find some discussion on the questions in the study guide.

Regardless of that I really enjoy the study and experience of watching this series. I recommend it to anyone!
 
Helped me revert back to the faith from being a Deistic like catholic to a very faithful catholic
 
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