Problems with LDS/Mormon History

[Holly3278]

Hello everyone. Mormonism makes claims about history that are factually untrue. There are other problems with Mormon history as well such as contradictory accounts of Joseph Smith’s vision of what he falsely believed to be Jesus and God the Father.

Did you know that the Book of Mormon claims that the ancient Central American natives were descendents of ancient Jews from modern day Israel/Palestine? The fact is that ancient Central American and South American natives are descended from ancient Siberia and are not related at all to ancient Jews.

Here is an unbiased source for the information:

religioustolerance.org/lds_migr.htm

Here is Wikipedia:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_history_of_indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetics_and_the_Book_of_Mormon

There are numerous problems with archeology and the Book of Mormon’s reliability as well:

religioustolerance.org/lds_migr.htm

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeology_and_the_Book_of_Mormon

This site is biased but it’s a decent article:

exmormon.org/whyileft.htm

There is also a lot of evidence of plagiarism in the Book of Mormon. It is often held that the Joseph Smith plagiarized parts of the Bible and other books into the Book of Mormon.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Book_of_Mormon

Here is an interesting article about Joseph Smith:

pbs.org/mormons/themes/smith.html

So basically there are a lot of problems with the Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith had his share of character flaws too.

I honestly believe that these things debunk Mormonism, especially as concerns the so-called history that they believe.

 

[PaulDupre1]

Hi Holly,
A number of us here on the non-Catholic religions forum are former LDS, including myself. There have been a number of interesting (and spirited) threads on the topics you mentioned.
If you search in the Non-Catholic Religions forum for any Mormon-related word you find several good threads on it.

A favorite thread of mine is called Cumorah.

Have fun reading!

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

 

[Holly3278]

Hi Holly,
A number of us here on the non-Catholic religions forum are former LDS, including myself. There have been a number of interesting (and spirited) threads on the topics you mentioned.
If you search in the Non-Catholic Religions forum for any Mormon-related word you find several good threads on it.

A favorite thread of mine is called Cumorah.

Have fun reading!

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

Thanks Paul! I’m a former LDS too but am also happily Catholic.

 

[PaulDupre1]

Thanks Paul! I’m a former LDS too but am also happily Catholic.

Welcome Home! Isn’t it great?

 

[Jon_S_1]

Hi Holly,
A number of us here on the non-Catholic religions forum are former LDS, including myself. There have been a number of interesting (and spirited) threads on the topics you mentioned.
If you search in the Non-Catholic Religions forum for any Mormon-related word you find several good threads on it.

A favorite thread of mine is called Cumorah.

Have fun reading!

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

Welcome home neighbor!

 

[Petaro]

I feel very sorry for the young men who are all dressed in the same dark pants and white shirt and white teeth, all with a gentle yank accent, trying consciously to save my soul. They are good, serious priests with their underwear on correctly, but they are blind to the obvious historical errors of their faith that has been so ably and comprehensibly debunked over years of exposure, along with its flagrant attempts to cover up the inconvenient truths.
The historicity of the Catholic Church has equally been challenged over the centuries, but the very recent nature of LDS establishment has not brought the debate the same smoke of the centuries that allow for such debate on Catholic(Christian) origins.
We must pray for these earnest young men who sacrifice years in the service of their falsehood. What have we done for our truth?

 

[PaulDupre1]

Thanks Paul! I’m a former LDS too but am also happily Catholic.

Hello again Holly,

I read your blog. Wow. You are quite the Catholic scholar!

Folks, I highly recommend Holly’s blog. This is one bright woman. Lots of insightful reflections on Catholic teachings and a very sharp old-school Catholic perspective on recent events.

I am always happy to see that those who leave Mormonism and become Catholic are those who have done their homework, learned the history and teachings of true Christianity and made a decision for truth based on both faith and reason.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

 

[PaulDupre1]

They are good, serious priests with their underwear on correctly, but they are blind to the obvious historical errors of their faith…

Darn you Petaro, you made me spit wine on my shirt!

 

[Holly3278]

Welcome Home! Isn’t it great?

Yes, it is wonderful!

Hello again Holly,

I read your blog. Wow. You are quite the Catholic scholar!

Folks, I highly recommend Holly’s blog. This is one bright woman. Lots of insightful reflections on Catholic teachings and a very sharp old-school Catholic perspective on recent events.

I am always happy to see that those who leave Mormonism and become Catholic are those who have done their homework, learned the history and teachings of true Christianity and made a decision for truth based on both faith and reason.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

Thanks Paul. I’m not a scholar though. I actually am not very smart. Any knowledge or wisdom I have, I attribute to the Holy Spirit and to reading apologetics online and offline.

 

[Porknpie]

I feel very sorry for the young men who are all dressed in the same dark pants and white shirt and white teeth, all with a gentle yank accent, trying consciously to save my soul. They are good, serious priests with their underwear on correctly, but they are blind to the obvious historical errors of their faith that has been so ably and comprehensibly debunked over years of exposure, along with its flagrant attempts to cover up the inconvenient truths.
The historicity of the Catholic Church has equally been challenged over the centuries, but the very recent nature of LDS establishment has not brought the debate the same smoke of the centuries that allow for such debate on Catholic(Christian) origins.
We must pray for these earnest young men who sacrifice years in the service of their falsehood. What have we done for our truth?

If the LDS Church would simply excavate Cumorah, they could show the world that their religion is true and would not have to send anyone out to evangelize. They would gain more converts, more quickly, than 100 years of sending out missionaries on two year journeys.

Yet…

They do not excavate this hillside.

Wonder Why?

PnP

 

[TexanKnight]

If the LDS Church would simply excavate Cumorah, they could show the world that their religion is true and would not have to send anyone out to evangelize. They would gain more converts, more quickly, than 100 years of sending out missionaries on two year journeys.

Yet…

They do not excavate this hillside.

Wonder Why?

PnP

I have been tooting that horn for years. Sent a letter to the First Presidency asking that they excavate Cumorah, but never got a response.

 

[iepuras]

I have been tooting that horn for years. Sent a letter to the First Presidency asking that they excavate Cumorah, but never got a response.

Don’t you know that such a question is a “local matter” that you should have taken up with your bishop or stake president? The First Presidency has more important matters to attend to like excommunicating uppity women and real estate development.

 

[TexanKnight]

Don’t you know that such a question is a “local matter” that you should have taken up with your bishop or stake president? The First Presidency has more important matters to attend to like excommunicating uppity women and real estate development.

Yes…I can think of a MILLION things they think about…

 

[iepuras]

I feel very sorry for the young men who are all dressed in the same dark pants and white shirt and white teeth, all with a gentle yank accent, trying consciously to save my soul. They are good, serious priests with their underwear on correctly, but they are blind to the obvious historical errors of their faith that has been so ably and comprehensibly debunked over years of exposure, along with its flagrant attempts to cover up the inconvenient truths.
The historicity of the Catholic Church has equally been challenged over the centuries, but the very recent nature of LDS establishment has not brought the debate the same smoke of the centuries that allow for such debate on Catholic(Christian) origins.
We must pray for these earnest young men who sacrifice years in the service of their falsehood. What have we done for our truth?

I felt sorry for a pair of Mormon elders who were walking down the main road as I was driving to confession Saturday morning. It was a typical Houston summer morning - hot and humid. It is tortuous to wear any clothing at all in this heat and humidity much less two layers with sleeves!

I should have asked them if they wanted a ride but they would have declined because I am a girl and have cooties.

 

[TexanKnight]

I felt sorry for a pair of Mormon elders who were walking down the main road as I was driving to confession Saturday morning. It was a typical Houston summer morning - hot and humid. It is tortuous to wear any clothing at all in this heat and humidity much less two layers with sleeves!

I should have asked them if they wanted a ride but they would have declined because I am a girl and have cooties.

I served my mission in Honduras. Those missionaries had it easy.

 

[iepuras]

I served my mission in Honduras. Those missionaries had it easy.

They do have an air conditioned apartment and look well fed. They are in suburban Houston so they have it quite good. Supportive wards and with the influx of people to the city, the illusion of growth in the LDS church. You are correct, they have a pretty cushy existence compared to all the missionaries south of the border or in the non-suburban parts of Houston. I’m sure these guys hope and pray they don’t get transferred to Baytown.

 

[TexanKnight]

They do have an air conditioned apartment and look well fed. They are in suburban Houston so they have it quite good. Supportive wards and with the influx of people to the city, the illusion of growth in the LDS church. You are correct, they have a pretty cushy existence compared to all the missionaries south of the border or in the non-suburban parts of Houston. I’m sure these guys hope and pray they don’t get transferred to Baytown.

In Honduras, I never had a place to live that had air conditioning. We walked everywhere. No bikes or cars. And we never had hot water. All showers were cold water. All shaving was with cold water.

In Progreso, Honduras, we had to put a sock over the shower head to filter out dirt. It was so humid, we would feel like we were seating while in the shower. No AC, so our sheets were soaked each morning.

In Talanga, we shared a 5-seat outhouse with the other people in our strip of small rooms.

Electricity was spotty.

We walked so much that our shoes went bad in a hurry. I had two pair, one pair was constantly getting repaired to add soles, fix holes, etc.

We always ate and drank what was offered to us…it would have been rude not too. I once had dysentery for 21 straight days and had it off and on throughout my mission. I went on my mission 195 pounds and came back 168 pounds.

Don’t get me wrong, I LOVED my mission and consider it 2 of the best years of my life.

But the missionaries you saw have it easy…lol

 

[iepuras]

In Honduras, I never had a place to live that had air conditioning. We walked everywhere. No bikes or cars. And we never had hot water. All showers were cold water. All shaving was with cold water.

In Progreso, Honduras, we had to put a sock over the shower head to filter out dirt. It was so humid, we would feel like we were seating while in the shower. No AC, so our sheets were soaked each morning.

In Talanga, we shared a 5-seat outhouse with the other people in our strip of small rooms.

Electricity was spotty.

We walked so much that our shoes went bad in a hurry. I had two pair, one pair was constantly getting repaired to add soles, fix holes, etc.

We always ate and drank what was offered to us…it would have been rude not too. I once had dysentery for 21 straight days and had it off and on throughout my mission. I went on my mission 195 pounds and came back 168 pounds.

Don’t get me wrong, I LOVED my mission and consider it 2 of the best years of my life.

But the missionaries you saw have it easy…lol

I am so glad I never went on a mission. My husband grew up behind the Iron Curtain and has plenty of horror stories himself (electricity shut off in the evenings, no hot water in the winter, spotty gas service in the winter, standing in the bread line by himself at the age of 4). But he was generally happy and had a good family life. Money certainly doesn’t buy happiness.

I’m sure these missionaries know they have it good because they are one transfer away from being sent to Baytown, which is a rough place for lily white boys from Utah and Idaho. Even in Baytown, they still have clean running water, reliable electricity and a window unit air conditioner.

 

[PaulDupre1]

In Honduras, I never had a place to live that had air conditioning. We walked everywhere. No bikes or cars. And we never had hot water. All showers were cold water. All shaving was with cold water.

In Progreso, Honduras, we had to put a sock over the shower head to filter out dirt. It was so humid, we would feel like we were seating while in the shower. No AC, so our sheets were soaked each morning.

In Talanga, we shared a 5-seat outhouse with the other people in our strip of small rooms.

Electricity was spotty.

We walked so much that our shoes went bad in a hurry. I had two pair, one pair was constantly getting repaired to add soles, fix holes, etc.

We always ate and drank what was offered to us…it would have been rude not too. I once had dysentery for 21 straight days and had it off and on throughout my mission. I went on my mission 195 pounds and came back 168 pounds.

Don’t get me wrong, I LOVED my mission and consider it 2 of the best years of my life.

But the missionaries you saw have it easy…lol

Your mission sounds a lot like mine - hot, humid, filthy, no AC and lots of cockroaches and other wildlife. In Taiwan (1977 to 1979) the air was so polluted that our lungs and throats ached most of the time. And don’t get me started on the fungal infections under the garments…

We also had to boil all the water we used for drinking, toothbrushing, etc. because it was contaminated with sewage and other stuff.

I must have gotten some unboiled water somewhere, because I came down with a whopping case of hepatitis A. I left for my mission at a trim and buff 174 pounds and came home at 113 pounds and yellow from jaundice. I had lost virtually all of my muscle mass (that’s one thing hepatitis does to you). My parents walked right past me in the airport, because they didn’t recognize me. When I followed them and they finally saw that it was me, they were horrified and my mother broke down in tears.

It took about 8 months of medical care, rest and good food to recover more or less fully. But for the next several years I would now and then spike a high fever for 12-18 hours for no apparent reason. My doctor said that hep hangs on a long time. I don’t recommend it.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

 

[Jeremyrose21]

My best friend since high school is a Mormon. I never attack the religion by bringing up historical inaccuracies or the character of Joseph Smith. I find it counterproductive because they believe persecution is further proof that they’re the true church(society has a short memory and they clearly don’t understand the persecution the Catholic church has endured throughout history). I’ve found I only need one argument. I believe that Jesus gave the authority to the apostles and I can see no reason that that authority wouldn’t be passed down. When Judas betrayed Jesus, the apostles replaced him. Why would they not do that with Peter? The issue of authority is one that mormans understand very well.
That argument may not change their minds, but it’s one they can respect. And conversely, at least they have a doctrine they hold their members to. I can respect that. That’s more than you can say about the “bible” churches.
I always welcome the missionaries(magic underwear and all) into my home and offer them a seat and something to eat and drink.