Problems with the Book of Mormon

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RebeccaJ said:
And please, using this “logic”, we could say any number of things are true. Space aliens. Planets populated with big intelligent bugs. You only put your argument into the realm of fantasy.
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Yes we could, but the existence of “Space aliens. Planets populated with big intelligent bugs.” is on an entirely different spectrum than thinking that Egyptians may have learned beekeeping from another civilization or their predecessors. One is based on patterns found in history. The other is not.
 
Paul and others,
Is this a high schoolers forum? I can’t believe I am reading the thinking process of mature adults in this discussion. Think independently, folks, please. The Sidney Rigdon theory and the Solomon Spaulding theory are not even remotely plausible for authorship of the Book of Mormon, except to high schoolers who are one-source wonders in their study habits.

I said before that the Book of Mormon corroborates the Bible in every detail. Mormons believe in the Bible far more literally than any other denomination. I read from the Bible nearly every day, and love it as the word of God. I love that it is written on so many levels; thus, God allows humankind to glean from it what will help them improve their lives at the level that they are committed to in life. You get out of it what you put into the reading and thinking or pondering about it. Read Isaiah. Thank deeply about Isaiah’s latter day prophecies. Read the Book of Revelation, and think about what Jesus wants you to know about his promises to you.
 
ParkerD said:
Dear Holly,
I have a daughter named Holli, since she was born on December 25.
I enjoyed reading your posts.
I’m going to give you my opinion about some of the things mentioned, since I’ve read the Book of Mormon over 40 times and am comfortable discussing it.

First, it is a remarkable book and I have never found anyone who can explain its existence without “explaining it away” by citing evidence that they think proves “it couldn’t possibly be true”. They do just what the bloggers here have done. But nobody can explain how a farm youth could “write” such a book. If God wants such a book to be believable only to those who are willing to read it with a sincere heart and an interest in understanding how God communicates to humankind, then of course He is going to “hide” the archeological evidences and the DNA evidences and going to allow such a thing as (perhaps) a “mammoth” to be described as an “elephant” by that farm youth who was describing what he could relate to in words that made sense to him.

I also have never heard an explanation of the countless prophecies in the Old Testament that are fulfilled most closely by the Book of Mormon account than by anything I’ve read. For example, for the House of Israel to be scattered among all the nations on earth, and gathered in the “last days” (see Isaiah 2)–we surely are in the “last days” and how is that gathering taking place?

I could answer any question posed about the Book of Mormon, and would be happy to do so. But I suggest a questioner about that book should read the Old Testament (especially Genesis, Deuteronomy, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Hosea, Micah, and Malachi) five times and the New Testament twice, before asking the questions so they have a basis for understanding the answers.

Good day, all.
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Paul, I am confused…in the upper right hand corner of the page you are referenced as “Orthodox.” Now I am not the most learned person when it comes to Orthodoxy, but I know enough about it to say that no one who claims to be Orthodox would defend the veracity of the BOM. Therefore, you must be using the term “Orthodox” differently than it is usually understood…would you care to clarify? Thanks. MGL
 
Jash said:
Yes we could, but the existence of “Space aliens. Planets populated with big intelligent bugs.” is on an entirely different spectrum than thinking that Egyptians may have learned beekeeping from another civilization or their predecessors. One is based on patterns found in history. The other is not.
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One is based on FACTS. The other pure fantasy. Which is where the BoM resides.
 
MGLechner said:
Paul, I am confused…in the upper right hand corner of the page you are referenced as “Orthodox.” Now I am not the most learned person when it comes to Orthodoxy, but I know enough about it to say that no one who claims to be Orthodox would defend the veracity of the BOM. Therefore, you must be using the term “Orthodox” differently than it is usually understood…would you care to clarify? Thanks. MGL
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Are you addressing me? It says “Catholic”, not “Orthodox”.

And why do you think our Orthodox brothers would defend a 19th-century work of fiction?
 
PaulDupre said:
Are you addressing me? It says “Catholic”, not “Orthodox”.

And why do you think our Orthodox brothers would defend a 19th-century work of fiction?
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I think MGLechner meant Parker. I’ve been wondering the same thing too.
 
PaulDupre said:
Are you addressing me? It says “Catholic”, not “Orthodox”.

And why do you think our Orthodox brothers would defend a 19th-century work of fiction?
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I think he meant ParkerD. I have been wondering the same thing:shrug:
 
LDSGuy said:
Your post has a slight Protestant/sola scriptura tone to it, at least that’s what it sounds like to me. Anyway, which temple was this? Do you have these phrases that invoke demons and are also used in Wicca and Witchcraft? Why would he invite you to the temple when, if he was an actual LDS, he knew that you wouldn’t be able to enter? Unless he wanted you to just see it or maybe the visitor’s center…:confused:

The only words I know of on top of all temples are “House of the Lord”, “Holiness to the Lord”.
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Well your right it is Kind of Sola Scriptura, Because, i believe in only One bible, One Bible alone. There is nothing Added to it nothing, else we need. and Guess what, God gave us the Church, the ONE, HOLY, AND CATHOLIC CHURCH, to help us as we read it and Understand it. DO not think that i just go willy nilly translating the bible without taking what i understand to the Church. If i did that, i would be on the verge of making my own religion, oh, wait some already did that…

Oh and another thing that Just destroys Mormonism, lets go ask the people who actually lived here during the time that your False Gospel talks about, and ask them what happened, Cause i am pretty sure the native Americans will tell a pretty different story of what actually happened, I am more willing to believe them, then some half cracked idea that almost every bit of History disproves and believing in something that has been disproved…wow, no wonder America is falling apart. Most of us are… wait that would be uncharitable.
 
Dchsknight said:
Well your right it is Kind of Sola Scriptura, Because, i believe in only One bible, One Bible alone. There is nothing Added to it nothing, else we need. and Guess what, God gave us the Church, the ONE, HOLY, AND CATHOLIC CHURCH, to help us as we read it and Understand it. DO not think that i just go willy nilly translating the bible without taking what i understand to the Church. If i did that, i would be on the verge of making my own religion, oh, wait some already did that…

Oh and another thing that Just destroys Mormonism, lets go ask the people who actually lived here during the time that your False Gospel talks about, and ask them what happened, Cause i am pretty sure the native Americans will tell a pretty different story of what actually happened, I am more willing to believe them, then some half cracked idea that almost every bit of History disproves and believing in something that has been disproved…wow, no wonder America is falling apart. Most of us are… wait that would be uncharitable.
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Uh, the Catholic Church doesn’t believe in sola scriptura.

Your arguments on history are not new. If you go to actual LDS apologists and writers, you will see that many have and continue to address these issues.

Also, what about my questions about the temple? I’m patiently waiting to hear about these Satanic/Witchcraft phrases that are on top of the temple(s).
 
RebeccaJ said:
One is based on FACTS. The other pure fantasy. Which is where the BoM resides.
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You have the first two thirds right. Civilizations adopting technology from preceding civilizations is a historical fact. Talking Space bugs are pure fantasy (to our knowledge.)
However, fantasy or not the Book of Mormon backs up teachings found in the Bible and when used in conjunction with the Bible clarifies the Doctrines of Christ.
 
LDSGuy said:
Uh, the Catholic Church doesn’t believe in sola scriptura.

Your arguments on history are not new. If you go to actual LDS apologists and writers, you will see that many have and continue to address these issues.

Also, what about my questions about the temple? I’m patiently waiting to hear about these Satanic/Witchcraft phrases that are on top of the temple(s).
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I am waiting for the answer on why all mormons are S.E.X fiends?
 
LDSGuy said:
as suspected.
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What about the answer as to why mormons were all Racist white supremacists and hated on black people for ever? Where is your answer on, were are the Golden plates? were is your answer to why mormons Believe in Multiply Wives? and were is your answer to the FACT that you all believe that you will be elevated to gods? Because that is what Satan wanted and is going for, he got damned for ever so what makes you think you will be any better then him, Because if you forgot, he was an angel and vastly more powerful then any human, and still is… What makes you think God is gonna treat you any different?
 
Dchsknight said:
I am waiting for the answer on why all mormons are S.E.X fiends?
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Come on, man. That’s really over the top. I have a lot of Mormon relatives and acquaintences, and their sexual orientations and appetites seem no different than the larger population.
 
Jash said:
You have the first two thirds right. Civilizations adopting technology from preceding civilizations is a historical fact. Talking Space bugs are pure fantasy (to our knowledge.)
However, fantasy or not the Book of Mormon backs up teachings found in the Bible and when used in conjunction with the Bible clarifies the Doctrines of Christ.
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The historical fact is that the Egyptians are the people who developed bee husbandry. You can pretend that someone else taught them. That doesn’t make it a fact. That makes it something you hope is true. Like, talking space bugs.
 
PaulDupre said:
Come on, man. That’s really over the top. I have a lot of Mormon relatives and acquaintences, and their sexual orientations and appetites seem no different than the larger population.
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Thank you Paul:)
 
Dchsknight said:
What about the answer as to why mormons were all Racist white supremacists and hated on black people for ever? Where is your answer on, were are the Golden plates? were is your answer to why mormons Believe in Multiply Wives? and were is your answer to the FACT that you all believe that you will be elevated to gods? Because that is what Satan wanted and is going for, he got damned for ever so what makes you think you will be any better then him, Because if you forgot, he was an angel and vastly more powerful then any human, and still is… What makes you think God is gonna treat you any different?
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So I’m assuming you can’t actually back up your false claims about Witchcraft/Demon invoking phrases on the temples.
 
Jash said:
I too have read the Book of Mormon and have to chuckle at these “problems” that “prove” it is false.

I believe measuring anything of God by the discoveries of man is the gateway to atheism.

There have been some items from the Book of Mormon presented here that I would like to clarify:

“daughters of Ishmael” as quoted in the Book of Mormon are the daughters of a man named Ishmael not daughters of a race.

The dates included in the Book of Mormon were not included in the original text but have been added as study helps to aid the reader understand it’s chronology.

The party that according to the Book of Mormon left Jerusalem around 600 B.C. consisted of two families, The family of Lehi and the family of Ishmael.

additional minor details:

There is record of honey bees and elephants in the Book of Mormon. However, this reference, found in the book of Ether refers to a time period a short 7 generations after the tower of Babel described in Genesis 11. For Comparison, Genesis 11 concludes in about 14 generations ending with Abraham. Note that in the life of these generations 3 key events occur:
  1. Flood Ends
  2. Languages Confounded at Babel
  3. Earth divided
(Not necessarily in that order.)

My point is simply this:

We have very little evidence of anything from this time period. Just because we have not found something does not mean it did not exist. If one insists something must be discovered to be “true” then the Americas did not exist until 1492.
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Is that a reference to hobbit-holes 🙂 ? There are Iron Age dwellings which look remarkably like them, & the natural inference seems to be, that those dwellings are modelled upon hobbit holes. If so, then hobbit holes must have existed. As if there were any doubt of this, hobbit fossils have even been discovered. There is as least as strong a case for believing in the inspiration & inerrancy & historicity of the texts which relate the doings of hobbits, as for accepting the claims made for the BoM :cool:​

 
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