Problems With Vengeance

[Aureole]

How does one go about forgiving someone who has wronged them terribly? Say, for instance, your spouse was murdered by someone and the murderer got away with it legally because there was a lack of evidence? How would you forgive that person for having committed such a heinous act against you?

I realize that prayer in this situation is essential. Without prayer one would likely fall into the sin itself. But desiring vengeance is just as sinful as actually doing it, so how does one go about ridding their mind of vengeful thoughts?

 

[Joan_M]

Aureole:

How does one go about forgiving someone who has wronged them terribly? Say, for instance, your spouse was murdered by someone and the murderer got away with it legally because there was a lack of evidence? How would you forgive that person for having committed such a heinous act against you?

I realize that prayer in this situation is essential. Without prayer one would likely fall into the sin itself. But desiring vengeance is just as sinful as actually doing it, so how does one go about ridding their mind of vengeful thoughts?

I’m sure such a situation would be terribly difficult. The only thing to do is to pray and, in that prayer, to acknowledge the vengeful thoughts, to further acknowledge complete helplessness in ridding oneself of those thoughts and asking God to take them away.

It may take a lot of prayer, and regular confession, but God’s grace will do it for us - if we have faith and truly submit to God’s will.

I know that if someone murdered my husband - even if the person was convicted - I would have a hard time coming to terms with that, much less forgiving him. I think I would be on my knees frequently and long, begging for my hard heart to melt.

 

[Lorik]

I have a friend who’s sister was put into a vegitative state by a drunk driver. A priest told her that she needed to realize that forgiving the person is not the same as forgiving the deed. The deed will never be ok. Easier said than done but possible only with God’s grace.

 

[LukeQ]

Forgiveness and what we are called to do is a difficult area of which I don’t have an answer but I do see a distinction in two types of situations:

1. Where there has been an injustice done to us or to someone we love and the perpetrator is contrite;
2. Where the perpetrator is not contrite.

in the first situation, it is clear cut - we are called to forgive the person;

In the second situation I realise we are not called to seek vengence and with God’s help, hand over the situation to Him, BUT, are we called to forgive a person who is not sorry for their actions? Does someone have a theological answer to this?

Luke

 

[Aureole]

Joan M:

It may take a lot of prayer, and regular confession, but God’s grace will do it for us - if we have faith and truly submit to God’s will.

This is exactly what I thought as well.
Joan M:

I know that if someone murdered my husband - even if the person was convicted - I would have a hard time coming to terms with that, much less forgiving him. I think I would be on my knees frequently and long, begging for my hard heart to melt.

This is beautifully put, thank you. It’s so true.

Lorik:

I have a friend who’s sister was put into a vegitative state by a drunk driver. A priest told her that she needed to realize that forgiving the person is not the same as forgiving the deed. The deed will never be ok. Easier said than done but possible only with God’s grace.

Indeed, I realize that the person and deed are two separate things. We never have to forgive the deed, but we must forgive the person.

LukeQ:

In the second situation I realise we are not called to seek vengence and with God’s help, hand over the situation to Him, BUT, are we called to forgive a person who is not sorry for their actions? Does someone have a theological answer to this?

That’s an interesting thought, are we still required to forgive someone who isn’t contrite? Certainly the most holy thing to do would be to forgive anyway but I’m curious to see what exactly the Church teaches on this.

 

[banjo]

. . . as we forgive those who trespass against us

2842 This “as” is not unique in Jesus’ teaching: “You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect”; “Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful”; "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another."139 It is impossible to keep the Lord’s commandment by imitating the divine model from outside; there has to be a vital participation, coming from the depths of the heart, in the holiness and the mercy and the love of our God. Only the Spirit by whom we live can make “ours” the same mind that was in Christ Jesus.140 Then the unity of forgiveness becomes possible and we find ourselves “forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave” us.141

2843 Thus the Lord’s words on forgiveness, the love that loves to the end,142 become a living reality. The parable of the merciless servant, which crowns the Lord’s teaching on ecclesial communion, ends with these words: "So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart."143 It is there, in fact, “in the depths of the heart,” that everything is bound and loosed. It is not in our power not to feel or to forget an offense; but the heart that offers itself to the Holy Spirit turns injury into compassion and purifies the memory in transforming the hurt into intercession.

2844 Christian prayer extends to the forgiveness of enemies,144 transfiguring the disciple by configuring him to his Master. Forgiveness is a high-point of Christian prayer; only hearts attuned to God’s compassion can receive the gift of prayer. Forgiveness also bears witness that, in our world, love is stronger than sin. The martyrs of yesterday and today bear this witness to Jesus. Forgiveness is the fundamental condition of the reconciliation of the children of God with their Father and of men with one another.145

2845 There is no limit or measure to this essentially divine forgiveness,146 whether one speaks of “sins” as in *Luke *(11:4), “debts” as in *Matthew *(6:12). We are always debtors: "Owe no one anything, except to love one another."147 The communion of the Holy Trinity is the source and criterion of truth in every relation ship. It is lived out in prayer, above all in the Eucharist.148

 

[Aureole]

Thanks for the passages from the Catechism banjo. I really ought to familliarize myself with it…

 

[JCPhoenix]

I think a situation like this is the ultimate test of faith and obedience.

Maybe this wouldn’t work for some people, but if you have even a spark of creativity, try this:

Write it all out. Put yourself in the shoes of the person who is in the wrong. Take what you KNOW of this person as a foundation, and then put yourself there. Was it a stupid mistake such as drinking too much and getting behind the wheel? This one might be an easier one because the nature of the wrong is more “common” and does not involve intent.

If it’s something that involves intended violence, then this excercise would be harder, but see if you can, in your mind, write a backstory about the person. What brought them to that point?

It’s not about accuracy in understanding the true identity of the person, but more about giving this person a “soul”, even a fictional one. By unforgiveness, we dehumanize, and in order to forgive them, we have to recognize their humanity and the fact that they, too, are a child of God.

I don’t know that I coudl do this myself, but take the suggestion for what it’s worth.

And go to confession …a LOT, and if possible, find a spiritual director, or at least some pastoral counseling. This kind of thing is a big deal and spells out spiritual death if it can’t be held at bay.

God bless,
J

 

[maryj]

can we ever be angry? are we expected to forgive immediately? I’ve always wondered if there is a “grace” period for forgiveness. Is there is an acceptable amount of time for a person to come to grips with forgiveness, or is it always a sin to not forgive immediately. I know from experience that it is so much easier to forgive on the spot with someone who you love, than to forgive someone you don’t like! Just thinking out loud…

 

[SMHW]

I think there are a couple of things to consider.

First, we are definitely called to forgive. Second, anger about an injustice is not necessarily a bad thing.

Forgiveness is an act of the will. We may never get over the negative feelings we have towards the person who wronged us but we can release them from the ‘debt’ that they owe us. Even if we do successfully forgive it is unlikely we will ever truly forget a serious offense against us.

As far as the feelings go… I recently heard something that I think might help. We might not want to forgive someone who wronged us. But we might want to want to forgive them. There is a subtle, but I think very real, difference.

If we pray to want to want to forgive then that is a first step on the road to full forgiveness.