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snowman10

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I goto a Presbyterian college and am a good friend of our Princeton Graduate, a very intelligent man that teaches Religion. He is also a Presbyterian pastor. Well he claims that it is unclear which came first, the Roman Catholic or the Orthodox Church. He also said that Biblically speaking, we don’t go straight to Heaven or Hell when we die. We are just dead. And we will be awakened when/if the ressurection takes place. He says that it doesnt make alot of the sense for the soul to come back down from heaven, or up from hell, to be judged again. I really don’t know if I should believe all he says or not or I should just trust the Church. My opinion is the Church came before the Bible. Any comments?

DU
 
Snowman,

I sorry, I just got hit wuth a total sence os relief. I am just SOOooo grateful to Jesus that I don’t have to sit arouind and wonder what MAKES SENCE. I don’t even know why Jesus thought He need a Moon in the shy.

Your Presbyterian may be doing a snowjob on you snowman.

Give glory to Jesus, there is absolutly NO REASON you should respond to me.

I love You,
CHECK OUT THE EUCHARIST!
John
 
Snowman,

I guess it really is hard to delineate which came first as the Orthodox and Catholic Churches started as “One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church”. On the whole up, down and all that applies to the four dimensions our bodies live in (length, width, height and time), and therefore up or down is figurative language not necessarily literal when applied in the spiritual realm (perhaps Einstein’s Fifth dimension he hinted about???). Hope this helps. Thanks and God Bless.
 
I wouldn’t trust all he says, I would go to the Church for clarification on anything that sounds a little fishy.
What came first was the Church, or else how would we even have a Bible? The Catholic Church existed and exists, the Roman Catholic Church is the largest rite within the Catholic Church.

I am not sure, but I think he is talking about he theory of soul sleep, which I don’t know too much about. I will look into it if no-one else answers with more on that theory and if possible post some links and some insight

Scylla
 
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snowman10:
I goto a Presbyterian college and am a good friend of our Princeton Graduate, a very intelligent man that teaches Religion. He is also a Presbyterian pastor. Well he claims that it is unclear which came first, the Roman Catholic or the Orthodox Church. He also said that Biblically speaking, we don’t go straight to Heaven or Hell when we die. We are just dead. And we will be awakened when/if the ressurection takes place. He says that it doesnt make alot of the sense for the soul to come back down from heaven, or up from hell, to be judged again. I really don’t know if I should believe all he says or not or I should just trust the Church. My opinion is the Church came before the Bible. Any comments?

DU
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The Orthodox Church isn’t Catholic, as they are not in union with the Pope, although they have much (not all) in common with Catholic doctrine. Jesus established a Catholic church with a leader, namely, Peter and his successors, so it is quite clear that the Catholic Church came 1000 years before the schismatic group of the Eastern Orthodox came on the scene.

Read more about your faith at Catholic.com and in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which states:

**1022 **Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven-through a purification or immediately,–or immediate and everlasting damnation.

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a12.htm#I
 
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snowman10:
I goto a Presbyterian college and am a good friend of our Princeton Graduate, a very intelligent man that teaches Religion. He is also a Presbyterian pastor. Well he claims that it is unclear which came first, the Roman Catholic or the Orthodox Church.
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That’s a red herring. It assumes that in ancient times there were TWO churches. There weren’t – the Way, the Christian Church, and the Catholic Church were all names for the Church Christ established. The split between Orthodox and Catholic came around 1000 AD. The name “Orthodox” was coined to designate those churches which split from the main, Catholic Church
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snowman10:
He also said that Biblically speaking, we don’t go straight to Heaven or Hell when we die. We are just dead. And we will be awakened when/if the ressurection takes place. He says that it doesnt make alot of the sense for the soul to come back down from heaven, or up from hell, to be judged again.
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We have plenty of evidence the soul lives on – what did Christ say to the Good Thief? "Amen, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise. (Luke, 23, 43).

I used this on an SDA, and his response was, “It doesn’t mean Heaven!! Paradise is a Persian word meaning a hunting preserve!”

Now, that’s a nice dodge – because clearly Jesus means the Good Thief will be with him AFTER death. My response was, “So you interpret this verse to mean, ‘Hey, buddy! What say when the crucifyin’s over we go out to my cabin and see kin we shoot us a deer?’”

That kinda rocked him back a bit. You’re free to use it, if you want.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif
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snowman10:
I really don’t know if I should believe all he says or not or I should just trust the Church. My opinion is the Church came before the Bible. Any comments?

DU
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The Church did come before the bible – and although the books of the New Testament were written in the First Century (or thereabouts) it was a long time before they were recognized as being on a par with the Old Testament. By them, there was lots of Christian literature, so picking out the right ones was the final act. The canon (list of books) of the New Testament was proclaimed by Pope Damasus I around 392 AD. The books chosen were those considered most in keeping with the Church’s long oral tradition.

A protestant may say, “My church is based on the bible:” with perfect truth – someone in the 16th century or later read the Bible and came up with the specific doctrine that his church holds.

But the Catholic Church is not based on the Bible – the Bible (the New Testament) is based on the Catholic Church.
 
vern humphrey:
I used this on an SDA, and his response was, “It doesn’t mean Heaven!! Paradise is a Persian word meaning a hunting preserve!”

Now, that’s a nice dodge – because clearly Jesus means the Good Thief will be with him AFTER death. My response was, “So you interpret this verse to mean, ‘Hey, buddy! What say when the crucifyin’s over we go out to my cabin and see kin we shoot us a deer?’”
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Sounds like heaven to me. :love:
 
We see in Revelations 5 the “dead” martyrs are clearly awake and active in heaven appealing to God for justice.
We even see the “dead” Moses standing next to Jesus during the transfiguration.

I think it is your professor that doesn’t make much sense.
 
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Trelow:
Sounds like heaven to me. :love:
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Heaven is Stone County, Arkansas – where we’re up to our hips in deer, turkeys, squirrels and fish.
 
vern humphrey:
Heaven is Stone County, Arkansas – where we’re up to our hips in deer, turkeys, squirrels and fish.
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Isn’t there an old story about them having to keep a good ol’ ozarks boy chained up in heaven cuse he would get loose every fall and spring?

You can’t visit the ozarks and still doubt the existence and majesty of God.
 
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Trelow:
Isn’t there an old story about them having to keep a good ol’ ozarks boy chained up in heaven cuse he would get loose every fall and spring?

You can’t visit the ozarks and still doubt the existence and majesty of God.
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We have a saying hereabouts, "If you live here, you never die. Because . . . what’s the point?"http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif

I just did 45 miles on the Ozark Highlands Trail. Two thunderstorms in two nights, ripped the straps out of my pack, and had to hike 15 miles holding then around my neck.

It was glorious!http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
 
vern humphrey:
We have a saying hereabouts, "If you live here, you never die. Because . . . what’s the point?"http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif

I just did 45 miles on the Ozark Highlands Trail. Two thunderstorms in two nights, ripped the straps out of my pack, and had to hike 15 miles holding then around my neck.

It was glorious!http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
Click to expand...
I bet so. Man it’s beautiful there.

Fiddle, I’m bad about taking threads off topic.

Sorry guys.
 
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Trelow:
I bet so. Man it’s beautiful there.

Fiddle, I’m bad about taking threads off topic.

Sorry guys.
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Good practice - when you actually get into a discussion with people like the Perfesser, they change topics all the time, never letting you nail down one point before going on to another – it’s their standard tactic.
 
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