Progressive Philippines Catholicism

[ConstantineTG]

edit
double post, sorry

 

[ConstantineTG]

Consider this: there’s nothing specific because they have no idea what they’re going to do.

No matter what, its all just suggestions and its up to the Bishops to actually approve it and request for recognitio from the Holy See. So its really a stretch to say abuse will see the light of day over there. We have very conservative Bishops although there are a couple who may be more modernists. But just see the current events in the Philippines today and see this really ugly events where the CBCP is battling the government against a Reproductive Health bill that will make contraceptives accesible to many of the poor of the country. Its ugly because it has become a Church vs. State battle and many anti-Catholics are seizing this issue as their chance to attack the Church. But it just shows what kind of Bishops we have.

 

[crossedsabres]

I’ve gone over a couple of pages on this thread, and I just wanted to contribute my two cents. It just seems to me like the discussion keeps going around in circles and I, quite frankly, am rather confused as to what is actually being debated right now, so I’m just going to comment on the article itself.

What seems to have gotten a lot of flak was the first section, Use of the Vernacular. To be honest, there is little that this is changing. Not once did I see a Mass offered in Latin, when I lived there last year to get back in touch with my roots. The Masses are offered in English or Filipino.The report is not suggesting to ban Latin altogether, but to use the vernacular so that the people, particularly those who are not fluent in English, can comprehend the beauty of the Mass more fully.

I also see a lot of discussion about the “Liturgical Inculturation.” Again, what is the evil in this? If the people can benefit more from understanding things from our culture, and not a Western culture, then isn’t it better? If it brings people closer to God and gives us a fuller understanding of what it means to be Catholic, then why fight it? Sometimes I think that we all spend too much time debating on the smallest things and not focusing about the bigger ones.

 

[Layman]

I also see a lot of discussion about the “Liturgical Inculturation.” Again, what is the evil in this?

A hallmark of liberalism, I think, is the over-use of technical phrases. e.g. ‘Celebrate the Liturgy of the Eucharist’ which means, ‘Say Mass’.

‘Liturgical Inculturation’ sounds good. Sounds educated. Sounds like we know what we’re talking about. When we don’t. It’s not defined at all.

What I think it means in practice is local, mediocre minds making something up. In Ireland, it was colleens doing Irish dancing in front of the sanctuary. A lad in tights censing a book. Graveside orations by would-be Brutus’ now moved into the sanctuary. When we try to recreate an older culture we tend to make something that, in ten years, looks like what it is: a reflection of our own, passing, fashions.

e.g. Look at Hollywood 1960’s depictions of, say, the old West. They don’t look like how cowboys actually dressed and behaved. They look like what they are: American actors from the 1960’s giving their version of that era. And looking … false … doing it.

In practice, ‘Liturgical Inculturation’ means whatever the local ‘historian’ thinks would be good. Like local amateur dramatics, the result is likely embarassing and often banal, especially in the context of the central, supposedly sacred (taboo) rite of our religion.

It’s a sacred rite. Why let amateurs mess with it? A pal showed me a Spanish book for MC’s in the old rite. There was a passage in it that said that anyone who deviated from what was authorised should be accursed. Now Mr. L. Iturg can have a go?

**See, those old guys were smart or they simply learnt from immemorial experience. Like a good franchise, they tried to make sure the service was the same throughout Christendom, so the locals wouldn’t be cheated of a holy Mass by proud intellectuals or deviant priests. Time for centralised quality control to be reasserted. **

 

[Ockham]

I’ve gone over a couple of pages on this thread, and I just wanted to contribute my two cents. It just seems to me like the discussion keeps going around in circles and I, quite frankly, am rather confused as to what is actually being debated right now, so I’m just going to comment on the article itself.

Welcome to the thread. It’s not necessary to read the whole thing as unfortunately it keeps getting thrown off-topic.

In a nut shell, the bishops of the Philippines are trying to clean things up. A group of progressive liturgists put out a counter statement inferring more changes and less conformity to the Latin Rite. This is contrary to the direction the Pope and senior clergy are trying to take the Church. Some people seem to think the liturgy is their personal toy to be customized to their liking and constantly infused with novelties to spark the next great thing. As the Protestants have proven this is a disasterous path.

There is no “Filipino liturgy” or “Western Rite”. There is the Catholic Church: One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic.

"*Looking back, some of the culprits for me for the gradual loss of the true reform of the liturgy were the so-called “liturgists” who were more like technicians and choreographers rather than pure students of liturgy.

They had a peculiar affinity for refined liturgical celebrations coupled with disdain for the old rites and devotions. Unfortunately, some bishops, not pure students of liturgy either, gave in to their terrorist proclivities.

A search for creativity and community were dominant projects in “reform-minded” Catholic circles in the 1960s and beyond. In itself, this might not have been bad. But the philosophy that the community was god, and that “God” was not fully “God” without the community was the source of ideas that have done most damage to the Church.

This secular notion of community made its way into the liturgy to gradually supplant the inherited Christian tradition.

These self-appointed arbiters of the reform were, and I hate to say this, liturgical hijackers who deprived ordinary parishioners – and bewildered pastors – of their right to the normative worship of their own Church. Hence, there was the need for a reform of the reform.

A major goal of Pope Benedict XVI is the restoration of our Catholic identity. Liturgy is a key component of such an endeavor.

…]

What is the Pope up to? In the words of Monsignor Guido Marini, “I think what the Holy Father is trying to do is to wisely bring together traditional things with the new, in order to carry out, in letter and spirit, what Vatican II intended, and to do it in such a way that papal liturgies can be exemplary in all aspects. Whoever takes part in, or watches, a papal liturgy should be able to say, “This is the way it should be done. Even in my diocese, in my parish!”

And that is how I would like the direction of the liturgical renewal to take with the Mass to be recast, yes, but in order to remain what it is, Calvary and the Upper Room*."

Archbishop Jesus Dosado of Ozamis
ucanews.com/2010/09/23/the-liturgical-renewal-i-would-like-to-see/

FYI here is a blog you may be interested in: catholicphilippines.blogspot.com/

“Mabuhay! Welcome to this blog dedicated in spreading news regarding related happenings concerning the restoration and promotion of orthodox and traditional Roman Catholic customs, traditions, practices, music, sacred art and liturgy in the Philippine setting.”

And the TLM is making a comeback as shown by the leadership of the country’s bishops:

“On April 27, 2010, feast of St. Peter Canisius, His Excellency Antonio Tobias, Bishop of Novaliches, offered Solemn Pontifical Mass in the convent chapel of the Franciscan Sisters of the Immaculate in his diocese. He was assisted by priests and brothers belonging to the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate.”
rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2010/04/first-solemn-pontifical-mass-by-ruling.html