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M
myfavoritmartin
Guest
Back to the main focus of this thread…
Here is what is left.
Bells
Blessed medals
Blessed palms
Blessing of people
Bowing the head
Bows
Church buildings
Fire
Icons
Liturgical hours
Liturgical vessels
Liturgical year
Mary gardens
Minor orders
Religious habits
Rosaries
Salt
Scapulars
Here is what is left.
Bells
Blessed medals
Blessed palms
Blessing of people
Bowing the head
Bows
Church buildings
Fire
Icons
Liturgical hours
Liturgical vessels
Liturgical year
Mary gardens
Minor orders
Religious habits
Rosaries
Salt
Scapulars
M
myfavoritmartin
Guest
I suspect when all is said and done there will be at least one item remaining undefined by scripture and in fact being against the scriptures anyone care to venture a guess?
W
wisteria
Guest
You’re the one making the accusation so the burden is upon you to show us the error of our ways. Show us from the Bible where these items are condemned.
As with wedding rings, there may be many traditions without definitions from the Bible - but you will not find ANY of these things taught by the Church that is “against the scriptures.”
M
myfavoritmartin
Guest
matthew 6:7
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
How does the rosary contradict this? let me count the ways…
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
How does the rosary contradict this? let me count the ways…
M
myfavoritmartin
Guest
could it also contradict what is taught in exodus 20:4-5 its a little to close to a slippery slope for me! when the good Lord tells me not to do certain things and I have men defining them in diffrent ways than what they read, I would rather not follow others, rather I will go where the holy spirit leads me.
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Della
Guest
On the contrary. The rosary isn’t a mere repetition of words, although to the casual observer who doesn’t understand the true nature of prayer it may appear so.
Repetition itself isn’t what Our Lord was condemning. The Psalms, which he knew and loved, are filled with repetitions, so is Proverbs and other such literary forms.
What he was condemning was the idea that if you just assault God’s ears with lots of words, you’ll get what you want. That is what the heathens practiced and a pitfall for us, too. We aren’t to approach God as if he were the big Candyman in the sky who can be cajoled into giving us what we want.
The rosary is a prayer of meditation, as are the Psalms. Indeed, the rosary’s more formal name is “The Psalter of the Blessed Virgin Mary.” Those who use it for prayer are meditating, as Mary did, on the life of Jesus as presented in the Gospel and repeating the words of the Angel Gabriel to Mary from Luke 1:28 and St. Elizabeth’s greeting from Luke 1:42. You’ll note that in the preceding verse, 41, we are told that Elizabeth was “filled with the Holy Spirit” when she made her declaration of Mary’s blessed state, hardly the prayer of a heathen.
The rest of the rosary is an invocation for Mary’s intercession–a request that she pray for us. Considering we are to pray unceasingly with “psalms and hymns and spiritual songs” the rosary fulfills that directive from St. Paul to a tee.
J
JSmitty2005
Guest
Go ahead and count, my friend. You’ve misunderstood the passage. The key word is “vain.” Yes, the rosary has the potential to be vain repetition, but not when it is done the way it is indended to be. Likewise, Protestants are fond of repeating phrases like “Amen, brotha!,” “Alleluia!,” and “Praise tha Lawd!” over and over and over again. That seems to be pretty vain repetition to me. Furthermore, do you recall what the angels in heaven are saying? Let me remind you: “Holy, Holy, Holy…” Oh my gosh, there’s some repetition! Is it vain though? No, I don’t think so. How about when Our Lord is in the desert and repeats His prayers? Dare you say the Lord contradicts Scripture? The point is that there is nothing at all wrong with repetition. After all, do you ever get tired of being complimented?
I love you. - I’m sure you would appreciate that every time I or anyone else has said that to you. So does God!
Finally, the Hail Mary is an entirely biblical prayer. The majority of it is taken directly from Scripture!
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
Sorry, back to the list
M
Mickey
Guest
The rosary, when prayed attentively, is anything but vainly repititious. We are to be persistent in our petitions to the Lord. And what does Sacred Scripture say about persistence?
Luke 18:1-6
And he told them a parable, to the effect that they ought always to pray and not lose heart.
He said, “In a certain city there was a judge who neither feared God nor regarded man;
and there was a widow in that city who kept coming to him and saying,
Vindicate me against my adversary.' For a while he refused; but afterward he said to himself, Though I neither fear God nor regard man,yet because this widow bothers me, I will vindicate her, or she will wear me out by her continual coming.’”
And the Lord said, “Hear what the unrighteous judge says.
**And will not God vindicate his elect, who cry to him day and night? **Will he delay long over them?
I tell you, he will vindicate them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of man comes, will he find faith on earth?”
J
JSmitty2005
Guest
No, not yet. Don’t you have a response to our rebuttals? What say you?
D
Della
Guest
Indeed, no discussion on your part, MFM, no going on with the list! :tsktsk:
M
myfavoritmartin
Guest
My bad I was giving an opinion from a protestant point of view in that any time I see ewtn and all the sisters praying via mary with the rosary, It sounds as though they are consistently repeating the same phrases, I’m not very astute on this so bear with me, I jumped to judging when I shouldn’t have but do they not say the same phrase over and over, and doesn’t it seem like they are doing working instead of having a heartfelt talk with our lord?
Once again I didn’t mean to get side tracked and this is moving away from the original thread.
Once again I didn’t mean to get side tracked and this is moving away from the original thread.
J
JSmitty2005
Guest
It’s okay. Don’t worry about it. Yes, the nuns do repeat themselves when they pray the rosary. But as we’ve shown above, repetition is not the problem. I understand that you are not a Catholic, so you probably don’t understand the rosary, but to us, it is a instrument for meditation. There are 5 decades in the rosary. This means that there are 5 sets of 10 beads on which a ‘Hail Mary’ is prayed. While praying a decade, we are to meditate on a certain set of mysteries that focus on the life of Jesus. Of course there are also ‘Our Father’s,’ ‘Glory Be’s,’ and other prayers throughout. Although I don’t intend to give the impression that the rosary is complex, this is a super-simplified explanation. So, if you’re interested, you can check out the mysteries that we meditate on here:
catholic.org/clife/prayers/mystery.php
For a more thorough instruction on the rosary, check out these links:
ewtn.com/Devotionals/prayers/rosary/how_to.htm
newadvent.org/library/rosary.pdf
And if you’re really feeling Catholic
, you can go here to download a program that will take you step-by-step through the rosary (& the Divine Mercy chaplet) on your computer if you don’t actually have a rosary:virtualrosary.org/dload.php
I can assure you that every last one of those nuns has had many a heartfelt talks with Jesus. BTW, I just thought I’d throw this out there: don’t you think that impromptu Protestant prayers are repetitious too? Whenever I’m at my girlfriend’s house and they say grace, it’s always structured similar with the same phraseology and rubrics. I just found it curious to see how repetitious they could be and yet she has made the same accusation regarding the rosary to me before.
Maybe you don’t notice since you’re not looking for it, but you should try some time.
M
myfavoritmartin
Guest
This is an interesting point while I was growing up and even into my 20’s I was a member of lcms, In looking back our church service and even home prayer was a very structured set of prayers from come lord jesus to now I lay me. As I aged and switched over to baptist The church I belong to rarely has a prayer that is rehearsed, and when we pray before dinner its that of giving thanks in a manner specifically revolving that day, when I pray at night it truly is just me sharing my heart both burdens and joys, pains and thankfulness with Christ.BTW, I just thought I’d throw this out there: don’t you think that impromptu Protestant prayers are repetitious too? Whenever I’m at my girlfriend’s house and they say grace, it’s always structured similar with the same phraseology and rubrics. I just found it curious to see how repetitious they could be and yet she has made the same accusation regarding the rosary to me before.
R
Rebecca_New
Guest
The Apostles asked Jesus, “Teach us to pray.” The Lord’s Prayer is one that all Christians say. The structured set of prayers help me to focus. I also pray with sharing my heart. There is no real difference here, just variety.
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
And will not God vindicate his elect, who cry to him day and night? Will he delay long over them?
I tell you, he will vindicate them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of man comes, will he find faith on earth?"
I don’t really see this in the same light as you do, this to me indicates none stop prayer people in pain and suffering crying out could be one way of deducing this , not so much repition, in my opinion.
I tell you, he will vindicate them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of man comes, will he find faith on earth?"
I don’t really see this in the same light as you do, this to me indicates none stop prayer people in pain and suffering crying out could be one way of deducing this , not so much repition, in my opinion.
M
myfavoritmartin
Guest
Rebecca New:
The point here is structured prayer is quite diffrent from repetitious prayer.
I couldn’t agree more.
The point here is structured prayer is quite diffrent from repetitious prayer.
M
myfavoritmartin
Guest
Shall we?
J
JSmitty2005
Guest
“So, leaving them again,
he went away and
prayed for the third time,
saying the same words.”
(Matthew 26:44)
I’m sorry. I said before that Jesus prayed repetitiously in the desert, but I was mistaken. This was the verse I was thinking of and it is right before His passion. I apologize for the misinformation.
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