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agapewolf
Guest
No, thats not the point. Please read again.
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Phemie
Guest
Your point was that they would concentrate on the screen and singing and not pay attention to the fact that they were actually go up to receive Communion.
The person responded ‘what about hymnals?’ to which I responded that people rarely take hymnals in the Communion procession, meaning that they don’t distract when people are going to receive – intending to support your point, not to support the idea of the screen, something which I absolutely loathe.
I fought to have the practice banished from our church when our organist refused to give Hymn # but projected the lyrics on the sanctuary wall when we had perfectly good hymnals in the pews. “They don’t like to use them” was her argument, one that had never been proved. People didn’t sing any less once the projection was stopped.
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Newbie2
Guest
While that is true in general, it seems like it’s about time for this to be addressed by the Vatican in light of newer technologies.
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TheMc
Guest
Maybe, but why address it if nothing has changed? Projectors are very unfitting to use in churches.
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agapewolf
Guest
Um, no it wasn’t. At all. Please read again.
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Cat
Guest
Projectors are a tool to communicate, just like microphones and speakers (thank God for good sound systems, which many Catholic churches do not have), and headphones for those who are hard-of-hearing, and church bulletins, which, in my opinion, are more likely to distract someone away from Mass than a projection of a hymn or song. They are all just methods to facilitate better, more accurate transmission of important information. There is no inherent irreverence in any of the methods of communication.
Sometimes I think that perhaps the entire Mass should just be utterly silent, with the priest saying nothing out loud, and no one saying anything, and everyone wearing a long black robe and a hood that covers the entire head. Maybe that would help people not to get distracted by everything and everyone else. Not sure what we would do with the babies.
If projection methods were used in Mass, eventually everyone would get used to it and it wouldn’t be distracting anymore. Any innovation is going to be distracting. A new sculpture of the Blessed Mother in the church would be distracting, so should we not ever add any new art to our churches?
Maybe this is why so many older Catholic Churches only have one bathroom stall, and it’s way down in a sub-basement, and it looks like it was added back on in the 1970s by a do-it-yourself guy who volunteered. Was there a time when people thought that modern bathrooms were unfitting to use in churches?
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ProVobis
Guest
For 1900 years, the Church has been able to communicate the Mass message with rubrics (bowing, genuflecting, gospel side, epistle side, hands over host, signs of cross, kissing the altar, etc. etc.) People were well aware of where they were in the Mass without microphones, without speakers, without the priest facing them, without hearing every Latin word in the Mass, and without air conditioning and in many places without heat. And churches were full.
So why do all of a sudden we need projectors again?
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Trader
Guest
Thanks for the picture. I have nothing against depictions of our risen Lord. We have one in our 150 year old cathedral that is moved to a spot near the ambo and Easter candle during the Easter season. If you are saying that this type of image is a replacement for the the crucifix, I have three words for it: WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.I can’t find anything online which is exactly what I see out here, but the pic on this page is similar.
examiner.com/catholicism-in-fort-lauderdale/third-sunday-of-easter-may-8-2011
However, this one seems more colorful than the ones that I see here locally, and the arms in this pic seem lower than those around here. That may be partly due to an optical illusion though because those around here are all hung on a wire so that the feet touch the wall and the head and arms hang forward a bit. This adds to the effect of looking like he is jumping off the wall. I suppose there is nothing particularly wrong with these images, but I am not crazy about them. They seem bland, the artwork is uninspiring, and of course they make the Lord look like he is about to stage dive into the nave.
I had not heard of churches that use projection during liturgy before. It would certainly not be used in my catherdral parish, and I can’t think of a good reason to use it anywhere else.
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cothrige
Guest
Yes, it is uncommon in this area for a church to have a crucifix near the altar. Instead they like these alternatives. I don’t dislike them in theory, and in another place, but in actual practice everyone I have ever seen has been less than impressive. They are just drab affairs which don’t seem to really say anything artistically.
I don’t like it either. It doesn’t seem to match the necessary solemnity of the action.
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cothrige
Guest
I agree with what you say here. And in addition modern churches seem to be designed intentionally to have terrible acoustic qualities, which might cause one to wonder what necessitated that so many be so ugly. In any case, nothing short of a shout can be heard without a microphone in these structures.
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Cat
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Cat
Guest
But that was then. This is now.
Why talk about trying to return to the past? We have a Catholic Church in our city that lives “in the past.” The Mass is Latin, the music is ancient, the church building is ancient, the priest wears a cassock, the women all wear dresses and veils, and the few families are huge. I don’t think there is is a sound system in the church, but I couldn’t swear to that. I know that the bathroom is ancient. It’s truly like stepping into the past.
And about 400 people step into the past each week at this church. It’s not full. It’s been around since the 1990s and it gets plenty of promotion, including promotion in the secular newspaper. But it’s not full. Far from it. I don’t buy the argument that if Catholic churches did an about-face and returned to the past practices, that our Masses would be full again. I’m not seeing that happen.
And there’s a reason for that. Lots of other things were present in the past that are no longer present, and lots of things are present now that weren’t around back then. We live now. We need to embrace that rather than sighing for times gone by.
As for your question about the need for projectors, you’re right. Most Catholic parishes don’t need them because most Catholic parishes are full of people who do not sing. Corporate singing is not a part of the culture of Catholicism. Too bad. I miss it.
I will say, though, that seeing the “new old music” projected and having a music director point to the neumes and “teach” the congregation how to sing the new pieces would be a very effective and enjoyable teaching method. Too bad that this perfectly good and useful idea will be rejected. What are the alternatives?
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TheMc
Guest
You seem quite bitter that the projectors are not allowed. Why not teach the choir, then start chanting the Mass propers and ordinary, then get the ordinary into the hands of the people, in square notes. They will soon catch on. Tomorrow night, we are singing the agnus dei from Missa De Angelis at an ordination, in addition to a tallis piece, a few psalms in latin, and a chanted pater noster, also in latin. People can do it.
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pnewton
Guest
Here is the link to the papal encyclical by Pope Pius XII on Sacred Music. It does not mention projectors.
catholicapologetics.info/thechurch/encyclicals/musicae.htm
Here is a report from Cardinal Cicgnani from 1958 from where the above quote comes on projectors.
adoremus.org/1958Intro-sac-mus.html
It is an instruction from 1958 on the implementation of the papal encyclical. Nothing in the encyclical bans overhead projectors. The context of the instruction seems more aimed at noise reduction than the visual effect. If I were the OP, I would be very slow to call down a priest on this issue based on “obedience”. It seems thin and it may be he knows more about what is allowable liturgically than posters here do. I bet a dollar to a doughnut that the resistence you see here is due to the type of music associated with projectors and not any sort of enforcement issue.
By the way, I do not like projected music.
catholicapologetics.info/thechurch/encyclicals/musicae.htm
Here is a report from Cardinal Cicgnani from 1958 from where the above quote comes on projectors.
adoremus.org/1958Intro-sac-mus.html
It is an instruction from 1958 on the implementation of the papal encyclical. Nothing in the encyclical bans overhead projectors. The context of the instruction seems more aimed at noise reduction than the visual effect. If I were the OP, I would be very slow to call down a priest on this issue based on “obedience”. It seems thin and it may be he knows more about what is allowable liturgically than posters here do. I bet a dollar to a doughnut that the resistence you see here is due to the type of music associated with projectors and not any sort of enforcement issue.
By the way, I do not like projected music.
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pnewton
Guest
I for one totally disagree with your assesment. There is a reason why music is chosen at the local level where people know their congregation better than others sending suggestions on what is ideal.
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ProVobis
Guest
If it’s about numbers, the Hour of Power grew a worldwide audience with projecting the lyrics on the TV set while no doubt projecting the same words on their own screens for their live congregations. It was fuller than full. I think Mitch Miller did this same thing back in the 50’s.
Where are they now? Do they even have 400 who remember them? I think you need to recognize a fad when you see it.
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jdoughty
Guest
I don’t mind the words being projected at all. It is up to us, w/ the power of the Trinity, to advance our relationship w/ God and there is a balance between focusing on the externals w/ our internal relationship w/ God. I do embrace using my iphone, to many wayward looks, during the Latin mass especially since I love the Latin but get completely lost and therefore have a less satisfying experience of the MEANING of the mass so the technology allows me to PARTICIPATE in a more meaningful way. There’s nothing like singing Sanctus w/ confidence to bring the presence of God forward v. quietly attempting to imitate those around me!
I will agree that when I first began using the phone I would admittedly be focused on my phone and not so much on the priest and the space of the church and the presence of God w/in the church. But I trusted God and began to learn how to balance the technology w/ the beauty of the mass and the awesome love and power of the Eucharist, really. I try to put the technology away when I can understand the cantor, choir, or even the priest during the readings but will absolutely take out the daily reading on my phone when I can’t understand the hymn, psalm, or even the reading: We have a priest from Latin America, love you Fr. Valentine!, and when I can’t understand his accent I can follow along, and again, be able to get a better meaning of the mass.
I do believe Pope Benedict XVI, does intend for technology to advance our understanding of the mass and Catholicism as this will increase all of our capacity to evangelize. So break out your ipad, iphone, or project those words in confidence to the glory of God!!
I will agree that when I first began using the phone I would admittedly be focused on my phone and not so much on the priest and the space of the church and the presence of God w/in the church. But I trusted God and began to learn how to balance the technology w/ the beauty of the mass and the awesome love and power of the Eucharist, really. I try to put the technology away when I can understand the cantor, choir, or even the priest during the readings but will absolutely take out the daily reading on my phone when I can’t understand the hymn, psalm, or even the reading: We have a priest from Latin America, love you Fr. Valentine!, and when I can’t understand his accent I can follow along, and again, be able to get a better meaning of the mass.
I do believe Pope Benedict XVI, does intend for technology to advance our understanding of the mass and Catholicism as this will increase all of our capacity to evangelize. So break out your ipad, iphone, or project those words in confidence to the glory of God!!
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Cat
Guest
Bless your heart! You remind me of my husband, the techno geek. He is as comfortable with his droid as others are with their Rosaries. In fact, I believe he has a Rosary App!
It’s coming. The future is here.
BTW, our bishop (Thomas Doran) is known for being orthodox and conservative, and he has been supportive of the development of the TLM in our diocese for decades. He is definitely a “Latin” kinda guy!
*But projectors and televisions are used in Masses in the parishes in our diocese with his approval. They are used to convey to the people the message of the bishop, who is, after all, an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ. * Each year, the bishop conveys a message by video *during Mass *to the people to inform them about the annual Diocescan Appeal. We have also seen videos about the 100th Anniversary of the Diocese (a few years ago), the yearly emphasis of the diocese (this year, it’s sacred marriages), and I believe that the bishop issued a video after the Pope’s announcement about the Latin Masses, during which he explained what the announcement meant for all of us.
I for one, am grateful for these videos. I frankly don’t know how else the bishop would be able to communicate messages of importance to the entire diocese, other than through snail mail to each and every registered Catholic–whoa, what an expense! The videos are easy and cheap to make and replicate, and they get across the message in a very gripping and moving way to a generation of people who is used to watching television, films, and computer screens rather than reading or listening.
I trust my bishop and do not believe that he would do something incorrect in the liturgy. After all, he’s a canon lawyer. We have a good diocese (just ordained 7 more priests), and our Masses are not full of some of the abuses that I hear described on CAF.
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Cat
Guest
Wonderful!
I know that I need to pray more often and more fervently for more vocations, and that those who are called will be used mightily by the Lord. I will pray for your friend.
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