Prom cancelled due to lesbian date - Catholic perspective

[Koopa]

Can I have some Catholic perspectives on the cancellation of a Mississippi prom because one student wanted to bring her gay girlfriend? I looked on google for around 20 minutes and couldn’t even find one site that supported the school’s decision (bad idea to go looking for it–all I found was a lot of hatred for that “homophobic” Catholic Church.

Basically, I need good arguments in case this comes up in school. I’ve expressed myself very briefly, simply saying that homosexual activity is wrong and the school is right to restrict these students.

Well, the school has a right to do whatever it wants anyway–there is no reason they can’t not-have a prom. Plus, it would be offensive to students who believe homosexual activity is wrong (I feel like this is a weak argument because people will just say that we can’t ban something just because it could be offensive).

Help me firm this argument up!

 

[rjparson]

Basically, I need good arguments in case this comes up in school. I’ve expressed myself very briefly, simply saying that homosexual activity is wrong and the school is right to restrict these students.

Well, the school has a right to do whatever it wants anyway–there is no reason they can’t not-have a prom. Plus, it would be offensive to students who believe homosexual activity is wrong (I feel like this is a weak argument because people will just say that we can’t ban something just because it could be offensive).

Help me firm this argument up!

I went to college about an hour from this school, and I am one of many who disagrees with what they did.

First, while the first clause I bolded may be true, it doesn’t follow that the school can restrict something if finds to be immoral. Using that logic, they shouldn’t have let people go to prom who plan on having pre-marital sex afterwards, plan on drinking underage beforehand, etc. Singling out one vice (a vice that applied to -one- couple) and tolerating all the others doesn’t make sense in a public school.

And you’re right, you can’t ban something because you find it offensive. The 14th Amendment, etc.

You’re probably having trouble firming this argument up because its a silly argument. Having a gay date wasn’t going to materially affect the other students, and its certainly isn’t affecting anyone else outside of the school. And I doubt canceling the whole prom and making her the object of all her classmates’ hatred is going to convince her that she should, somehow, stop being gay.

There are worthier social problems to address. A minority of people in this country are gay. A much larger portion of society is/will be divorced. This mysterious gay agenda is little more than a strawman propped up by social conservatives to distract from more pressing issues.

 

[I_Fortuna]

I went to college about an hour from this school, and I am one of many who disagrees with what they did.

First, while the first clause I bolded may be true, it doesn’t follow that the school can restrict something if finds to be immoral. Using that logic, they shouldn’t have let people go to prom who plan on having pre-marital sex afterwards, plan on drinking underage beforehand, etc. Singling out one vice (a vice that applied to -one- couple) and tolerating all the others doesn’t make sense in a public school.

You’re probably having trouble firming this argument up because its a silly argument. Having a gay date wasn’t going to materially affect the other students, and its certainly isn’t affecting anyone else outside of the school. And I doubt canceling the whole prom and making her the object of all her classmates’ hatred is going to convince her that she should, somehow, stop being gay.

There are worthier social problems to address.

I agree completely. Also, many people are not aware that many religious gays and lesbians are celibate.

It is not right for anyone engaged or dating to partake in sex out side of marriage.

We are all sinners and we need to love all these folks. We condemn the act but many unwed heteros sin too.

I think we need to be more charitable and encourage bible study and education for all concerned.

 

[4elise]

I went to college about an hour from this school, and I am one of many who disagrees with what they did.

First, while the first clause I bolded may be true, it doesn’t follow that the school can restrict something if finds to be immoral. Using that logic, they shouldn’t have let people go to prom who plan on having pre-marital sex afterwards, plan on drinking underage beforehand, etc. Singling out one vice (a vice that applied to -one- couple) and tolerating all the others doesn’t make sense in a public school.

And you’re right, you can’t ban something because you find it offensive. The 14th Amendment, etc.

You’re probably having trouble firming this argument up because its a silly argument. Having a gay date wasn’t going to materially affect the other students, and its certainly isn’t affecting anyone else outside of the school. And I doubt canceling the whole prom and making her the object of all her classmates’ hatred is going to convince her that she should, somehow, stop being gay.

There are worthier social problems to address. A minority of people in this country are gay. A much larger portion of society is/will be divorced. This mysterious gay agenda is little more than a strawman propped up by social conservatives to distract from more pressing issues.

Sounds like someone understood today’s Gospel.
Blessings

 

[Koopa]

Worthier social problems to address -agreed- but it’s a problem nonetheless.

Don’t get the false impression that I’m not loving these people. They are obviously doing something wrong (homosexual dating) whether they know it or not.

Homosexual activity is destructive and I think if a school is willing to recognize these two as a “couple” then it creates immediate problems. Allowing them to prom would not be a problem if they were friends, but being that she specifically intended to bring her “gay lover” to prom, it becomes an issue.

Prom is a public event and I don’t think the school should allow its students to be influenced by the presence of gay dates.

I get that we can’t single out one couple’s vices, but the fact that this vice was made known and that it would be readily observable at the prom makes it a significant disruption.

 

[PatriceA]

Was it a public or private school?

If it was a public school, they can’t discriminate based on one’s sexual orientation, no matter how much I may disagree with it.

 

[Newbie2]

I went to college about an hour from this school, and I am one of many who disagrees with what they did.

First, while the first clause I bolded may be true, it doesn’t follow that the school can restrict something if finds to be immoral. Using that logic, they shouldn’t have let people go to prom who plan on having pre-marital sex afterwards, plan on drinking underage beforehand, etc. Singling out one vice (a vice that applied to -one- couple) and tolerating all the others doesn’t make sense in a public school.

And you’re right, you can’t ban something because you find it offensive. The 14th Amendment, etc.

You’re probably having trouble firming this argument up because its a silly argument. ***Having a gay date wasn’t going to materially affect the other students, and its certainly isn’t affecting anyone else outside of the school. ***And I doubt canceling the whole prom and making her the object of all her classmates’ hatred is going to convince her that she should, somehow, stop being gay.

There are worthier social problems to address. A minority of people in this country are gay. A much larger portion of society is/will be divorced. This mysterious gay agenda is little more than a strawman propped up by social conservatives to distract from more pressing issues.

You’re probably right about what is or isn’t likely to stop this person from “being gay”, but I think you missed the reason that the school is legitimately using to cancel the prom.
Although freedom of speech is protected, a student can be forced either to change a tee shirt that has something controversial and is likely to cause a commotion at school, even though whatever is written might not be swear words, blatently racist, etc.

If the school officials though that having two lesbian girls at the prom is likely to be disruptive, they have the same right to cancel the prom as they do to make a student change his controversial tee shirt or go home for the day.

The other reason why they’re not simply barring her from the prom and elected to cancel it is to prevent a lawsuit. They cannot be sued for not hosting a prom but if they didn’t let this girl bring her girl date I’d give a million to one odds that they’d hear from her lawyer the next day.

So…the school apparently disagrees with you about the possibility of this girl bringing a girl date not “materially affect the other students”. Hey, they could even use the argument it’s for her protection, as they cannot guarantee she not be “bullied” at the prom by other students. School districts, rightly or wrongly, have dished out millions of dollars of taxpayer money settling “bullying” lawsuits.

The Catholic viewpoint would be, methinks, that such was a responsible decision by the School.

 

[Anna2552]

First, while the first clause I bolded may be true, it doesn’t follow that the school can restrict something if finds to be immoral. Using that logic, they shouldn’t have let people go to prom who plan on having pre-marital sex afterwards, plan on drinking underage beforehand, etc. Singling out one vice (a vice that applied to -one- couple) and tolerating all the others doesn’t make sense in a public school.

And you’re right, you can’t ban something because you find it offensive. The 14th Amendment, etc.

So following this logic, the school would probably be out of line if they said a couple couldn’t attend prom in their matching KKK suits.

 

[4elise]

So following this logic, the school would probably be out of line if they said a couple couldn’t attend prom in their matching KKK suits.

I would disagree with the line of thought.
Those who are members of KKK are a hate group - a lesbian couple, that while it may be something one may consider disordered - are two people who have civil rights for individual association.

The school has the right to ban the prom - perhaps it is as was suggested they are concerned that the couple would be harassed - however if it is only because this couple planned to attend the prom of a public school I would think the school would be on thin ice legally.

 

[rjparson]

So following this logic, the school would probably be out of line if they said a couple couldn’t attend prom in their matching KKK suits.

The KKK is a hate group that advocates violence towards minorities, Catholics, everyone that’s not them. This is a terrible argument.

Gay people live an immoral lifestyle in the privacy of their own homes. If the other students were going to be affected by one gay couple (at PROM of all places, I’m sure there were plenty of other moral problems going on) then they have bad parents.

I’m sure the school (it was public) thought, “We find this gross, how can we justify making it go away” and worked from there. I’m also willing to bet that with the past 30 years they had segregated proms.

The schools in this part of Mississippi should focus on the atrocious quality of their education, not parenting their students’ morals (when they, erm, have parents to do that).

 

[Newbie2]

I’m sure the school (it was public) thought, “We find this gross, how can we justify making it go away” and worked from there.

Perhaps, but I’m sure the school administration thought was also: “Allowing this is going to cause a huge disruption, possibly even a bullying/harrasement lawsuit if this girl gets taunted, etc, which is very likely to happen. Not allowing her to attend will invite a lawsuit from her. We’re between a rock and a hard place, only option is to cancel”.

Do you disagree?

 

[rjparson]

Perhaps, but I’m sure the school administration thought was also: “Allowing this is going to cause a huge disruption, possibly even a bullying/harrasement lawsuit if this girl gets taunted, etc, which is very likely to happen. Not allowing her to attend will invite a lawsuit from her. We’re between a rock and a hard place, only option is to cancel”.

Do you disagree?

Yes, but I don’t have any compelling evidence to offer.

More importantly, I’m sure canceling the prom and publicly linking this girl to the decision to cancel has invited much more bullying/harassment than a few hours of dancing with another girl would have.

I also wouldn’t be surprised if a lawsuit comes out of this, and all the attention this has gotten in the national press hasn’t helped things for anyone.

 

[4elise]

Yes, but I don’t have any compelling evidence to offer.

More importantly, I’m sure canceling the prom and publicly linking this girl to the decision to cancel has invited much more bullying/harassment than a few hours of dancing with another girl would have.

I also wouldn’t be surprised if a lawsuit comes out of this, and all the attention this has gotten in the national press hasn’t helped things for anyone.

That is a good point that I hadn’t considered… of course all the kids looking forward to attending - I would think she must really be the target of their anger, not the school.

 

[Anna2552]

I would disagree with the line of thought.
Those who are members of KKK are a hate group - a lesbian couple, that while it may be something one may consider disordered - are two people who have civil rights for individual association.

The school has the right to ban the prom - perhaps it is as was suggested they are concerned that the couple would be harassed - however if it is only because this couple planned to attend the prom of a public school I would think the school would be on thin ice legally.

The KKK doesn’t think they are a “hate group.” Regardless of what they are they do not cease to possess civil rights. They are not permitted to wear their outfits to a publicly- sponsored prom because of the uproar it would create. This is no different.

Nonetheless it is established that (public) free expression may be suppressed among those who violate social norms in ways society finds unacceptable.

 

[Anna2552]

The KKK is a hate group that advocates violence towards minorities, Catholics, everyone that’s not them. This is a terrible argument.

Gay people live an immoral lifestyle in the privacy of their own homes. If the other students were going to be affected by one gay couple (at PROM of all places, I’m sure there were plenty of other moral problems going on) then they have bad parents.

I’m sure the school (it was public) thought, “We find this gross, how can we justify making it go away” and worked from there. I’m also willing to bet that with the past 30 years they had segregated proms.

The schools in this part of Mississippi should focus on the atrocious quality of their education, not parenting their students’ morals (when they, erm, have parents to do that).

So to sum up your argument, people who do not agree with you have bad parents. Got it!

 

[rjparson]

So to sum up your argument, people who do not agree with you have bad parents. Got it!

You know, I don’t think that’s even close to what I said. I said, if simply being near gay people somehow affects someone’s morality (“hey, they’re gay, let’s have sex”?) then they should have been raised better. They don’t need a public school reinforcing the notion that a gay teenager, however immoral her private life may be, is somehow equivalent to the KKK (and who cares what -they- call themselves, they are a hate group).

 

[Newbie2]

Yes, but I don’t have any compelling evidence to offer.

More importantly, I’m sure canceling the prom and publicly linking this girl to the decision to cancel has invited much more bullying/harassment than a few hours of dancing with another girl would have.

I also wouldn’t be surprised if a lawsuit comes out of this, and all the attention this has gotten in the national press hasn’t helped things for anyone.

If the school board is like most school boards, they are most interested in protecting the interests of the school system. Not having a prom isn’t anything that they’d be likely to get successfully sued over. Not a single student there has any right to go to prom.

Who do you think would sue whom and for what reason?

 

[ComputerGeek25]

If the school board is like most school boards, they are most interested in protecting the interests of the school system. Not having a prom isn’t anything that they’d be likely to get successfully sued over. Not a single student there has any right to go to prom.

Who do you think would sue whom and for what reason?

Interesting arguement.

Does stuff like the prom fall outside of the education system and therefore outside of the school boards jurisdiction? If it does fall under jurisdiction, should it really?

What are students gaining from the prom?

 

[Anna2552]

You know, I don’t think that’s even close to what I said. I said, if simply being near gay people somehow affects someone’s morality (“hey, they’re gay, let’s have sex”?) then they should have been raised better. They don’t need a public school reinforcing the notion that a gay teenager, however immoral her private life may be, is somehow equivalent to the KKK (and who cares what -they- call themselves, they are a hate group).

The point is that whom it affects, and how it affects them, is a subjective decision.

It is not unconceivable that we should limit public displays of behavior that greater society finds repulsive (such as matching klan prom suits). If they choose to permit same sex couples at proms in Massachussetts, that probably falls within their norms. Should others states find it offensive, divisive and abhorrent (like the KKK) it stands to reason that publicly-funded event should prohibit the behavior.

A discussion of the effects of homosexuality on society at large (particularly youth) is a far broader topic. I am most concerned with the inconsistent application of civil “rights” to force society at large to tolerate behaviors they find to be wrong.

 

[Newbie2]

Interesting arguement.

Does stuff like the prom fall outside of the education system and therefore outside of the school boards jurisdiction? If it does fall under jurisdiction, should it really?

What are students gaining from the prom?

I guess it depends on where the prom is held and the involvement of the school. The kids and parents, if they wanted, could independantly have a prom off the school grounds but they’d have to do all the organizing themselves. If the school was involve one teesy, weensy little bit, like helping to pass around fliers, they’d be “involved”.

I also guess that prom is mostly tradition. Used to be that it was a sort of coming out (no pun intended) out of high school and into adulthood and the real world, perhaps elements of that still remain.

If the school has anything to do with it, yep, the school board and administration should be involved to protect the taxpayer’s interests. If a prom is done completely independantly from school, they have nothing to say about it. I’d guess that if it was done independantly they could not call it the (Insert school name here) prom, again, because of the potential legal association with the school.