Pronunciations and word use

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PartoftheBody

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I have a few silly questions:

I’ve heard St Augustine’s name pronounced “AWE-gus-teen” and “Uh-GUS-tin.” Are both right?

What is the significance of pronouncing “Amen” as “AH-men” vs “AE-men?”

What is the difference between calling the Third Person of the Trinity “Holy Spirit” vs “Holy Ghost?”
 
Within Catholic circles Augustine is generally pronounced “Uh-gus-tin.” Or at least, I have never heard an educated Catholic say “Ah-gus-teen” like so many people pronounce the city in Florida. shudder

Amen, I suppose, is a preference, but you just try to sing “ay-men” to the set tones for the liturgy and it sounds absolutely atrocious! “Ah-men” is generally more aesthetic imo and is virtually unchallenged as the pronunciation if it is a sung response.

Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost, meh, I don’t have any comments on that.
 
Most English speaking Catholics will say St. Uh-Gus-tin, however in Spanish it is aw-Goo-steen. Holy Spirit is more modern than Holy Ghost but both refer to the third person of the Trinity. Ae-men and Ah-men are interchangeable as well.
 
PartoftheBody said:
I have a few silly questions:

I’ve heard St Augustine’s name pronounced “AWE-gus-teen” and “Uh-GUS-tin.” Are both right?
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There is no significance. It depends on what region one comes from. Look at the City of St. Augustine, FL . They say it differently.
What is the significance of pronouncing “Amen” as “AH-men” vs “AE-men?”
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Other than so very scrupulous person who feels that if he doesn’t use the Latin pronunciation he is missing out on something, there is no difference. Use whichever is comfortable for you.
What is the difference between calling the Third Person of the Trinity “Holy Spirit” vs “Holy Ghost?”
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More silliness. Again, this is where scruples and tradition get mixed in together. In Latin the term is Holy Spirit. In German it’s Geist (sp?) for ghost. But not the kind of ghost in haunted houses.

In either way, the meaning does not change at all. It’s the same person. In fact, Scripture does not use the term Holy Ghost. It uses the term “spirit”.

Some people like to make an issue out of this. I’m convinced that those who make an issue out of this must be very wealthy. They don’t have to worry about anything else, including feeding their families. So they find something a simple as this to spend hours on it.

I’m not kidding you. I admit that the number is very small, but there is a small number of people who will go to hell and back over Holy Ghost vs Holy Spirit. Then you get people like me who just roll their eyes, because I have too many important things to care about and this is not even in the top 50 of my list.

Use whichever or do as I do. When in Rome . . .
 
It’s funny because I always hear Holy Ghost at EF Masses and really that’s the only place. It seems like even the lay people if they’re reciting the Doxology in the Rosary or something will even say Holy Ghost. I prefer Spirit as it’s what I’ve always heard. Also, even in Latin the word is Spirit, so it makes more sense to me.
 
In Latin the term is Holy Spirit.
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Except we don’t translate the Sanctus here as “Saint” in the English. That would really give the Anglophones fits. 😉
 
GangGreen said:
It’s funny because I always hear Holy Ghost at EF Masses and really that’s the only place. It seems like even the lay people if they’re reciting the Doxology in the Rosary or something will even say Holy Ghost. I prefer Spirit as it’s what I’ve always heard. Also, even in Latin the word is Spirit, so it makes more sense to me.
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They use it because it’s a tradition. What many do not realize is that it’s not a tradition of the universal Church. It’s not even a tradition of the Latin Church. It’s only a tradition in certain cultures and languages. Try pushing Holy Ghost to a Chaldean, Melkite, or Syrian Catholic. They’ll look at you as if you lost your mind. In those languages the term is Spirit. If you try translating ghost into Spanish, Italian or Portuguese, you’ll find that you’ll get very strange looks. They have always said Spirit, from the Latin. It’s not one of those traditions that’s worth arguing about.
ProVobis said:
Except we don’t translate the Sanctus here as “Saint” in the English. That would really give the Anglophones fits. 😉
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Are you trying to start the next great schism? :eek:

Shhhhh, bite your tongue. :rotfl:
 
JReducation said:
Are you trying to start the next great schism? :eek:

Shhhhh, bite your tongue. :rotfl:
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Well, I haven’t heard the term “AmChurch” in a while so I figured I was safe. 🙂

But you’re right about its being a tradition only in certain cultures and languages. The entire Catholic world thankfully doesn’t revolve about one right translation in English. But it’s a good exercise (in futility). 🙂
 
I’ve met people or known of plenty of people who argued fiercely that “Holy Spirit” is the only correct name for the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity, but it seems like either “Spirit” or “Ghost” is just fine.
 
ProVobis said:
Well, I haven’t heard the term “AmChurch” in a while so I figured I was safe. 🙂

But you’re right about its being a tradition only in certain cultures and languages. The entire Catholic world thankfully doesn’t revolve about one right translation in English. But it’s a good exercise (in futility). 🙂
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AmChurch
 
ProVobis said:
Well, I haven’t heard the term “AmChurch” in a while so I figured I was safe. 🙂

But you’re right about its being a tradition only in certain cultures and languages. The entire Catholic world thankfully doesn’t revolve about one right translation in English. But it’s a good exercise (in futility). 🙂
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I’ve been doing online apostolate since I became disabled in 2007. That’s almost 7 years. And my experiences has been stunning. The number of people who enjoy exercises in futility is incredible. I have a blog and you should see some of the comments that I do not allow to be seen in public, because they’re like the proverbial stairs that go nowhere.
Rich_C said:
I’ve met people or known of plenty of people who argued fiercely that “Holy Spirit” is the only correct name for the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity, but it seems like either “Spirit” or “Ghost” is just fine.
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I was involved in a thread on this subject, right here on TC Forum. I dropped out after a day or two. It was going nowhere. First of all, just because one posts something on the internet does not mean that the hierarchy is going to see it. Secondly, everyone knows that even if the hierarchy saw, it cannot change these things to satisfy one group, because it will only cause despair in another group. As I tell our novices, “Don’t worry about the laity’s opinion. They never agree among themselves. Just do the best you can.” I don’t tell them this to be rude or cheeky, but to drive home a point. No matter what you change or tweak, you’re going to find an opponent. Some things are just not worth the time and energy. Ghost and spirit is one of those. That’s like my Jewish relatives who insist on saying Yeshua instead of Jesus. I just roll my eyes. :whistle:
YoungTradCath said:
AmChurch
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:rotfl:
 
JReducation said:
More silliness. Again, this is where scruples and tradition get mixed in together. In Latin the term is Holy Spirit. In German it’s Geist (sp?) for ghost. But not the kind of ghost in haunted houses.
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This is what I always understood.

Geist is the German word for spirit. Gast in Anglo-Saxon. In Swedish it is gusa. In Latin it is spiritus, meaning breath, from which we get the word aspirate. In Greek it is pneuma from which we get pneumonia and pneumatic.

The King James Version is interesting because it uses ghost and spirit interchangeably for the same Greek word pneuma.

And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." (Acts 2:4)

The translators seemed to have used ghost when it was a physical manifestation of God’s presence.

-Tim-
 
and English is a Germanic and Latin based language. Hence the two, I guess.
 
I like to say ‘Aw-men’ instead of ‘Ay-men’, because that’s the way people in Robin Hood and Braveheart say it.

What can I say. Being a twelve-year-old boy on the inside is the way to go 😛
 
TimothyH said:
This is what I always understood.

Geist is the German word for spirit. Gast in Anglo-Saxon. In Swedish it is gusa. In Latin it is spiritus, meaning breath, from which we get the word aspirate. In Greek it is pneuma from which we get pneumonia and pneumatic.

The King James Version is interesting because it uses ghost and spirit interchangeably for the same Greek word pneuma.

And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." (Acts 2:4)

The translators seemed to have used ghost when it was a physical manifestation of God’s presence.

-Tim-
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I’ve noticed this in some KJV
TK421 said:
I like to say ‘Aw-men’ instead of ‘Ay-men’, because that’s the way people in Robin Hood and Braveheart say it.

What can I say. Being a twelve-year-old boy on the inside is the way to go 😛
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Around here we use Ah-men only in Latin. Ay-men in English.
 
So…

Do the AK-si-dents (as in car accident) of bread and wine remain or do the ak-SEE-dents of bread and wine remain?

-Tim-
 
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