Proof Joseph Smith, Jr. was a prophet?

[Daniel_Marsh]

Here is the passage itself for context, THE COMMUNITY RULE
Translated by G. Vermes 1QS

COL.VIII

1. **In the Council of the Community there shall be twelve men and three Priests, perfectly versed in all that is revealed of
2. the Law, whose works shall be truth, righteousness, justice, loving kindness and humility. They shall
3. preserve the faith in the Land with steadfastness and meekness and shall atone for sin by the practice of justice and by
4. suffering the sorrows of affliction. ** They shall walk with all men according to the standard of truth and the rule of time. When these are in Israel,
5. the Council of the Community shall be established in truth. It shall be an Everlasting Plantation, a House of Holiness for Israel, an Assembly of Supreme Holiness
6. for Aaron. They shall be eyewitnesses to the truth at the Judgement, and shall be the elect of Goodwill who shall atone for the Land and pay to the
7. wicked their reward. It shall be that tried wall, that PRECIOUS CORNERSTONE,
8. whose foundations shall neither rock nor sway in their place (Isa. xxviii, 16). It shall be a Most Holy Dwelling
9. for Aaron with everlasting knowledge of the Covenant of justice, and shall offer up sweet fragrance. It shall be a House of Perfection and Truth in Israel that they may
10. establish a Covenant according to the everlasting precepts. And they shall be an agreeable offering, atoning for the Land and determining the judgement of wickedness, and there shall be no more iniquity. When they have been confirmed for two years in perfection of way
11. by the authority of the Community, they shall be set apart as holy within the Council of the men of the Community. And the
12. Interpreter shall not conceal from them, out of fear of the spirit of apostasy, any of those things hidden from Israel which have been discovered by him. And when these become members of the Community
13. in Israel according to all these rules, they shall separate from the habitation of ungodly men and shall go into the wilderness to prepare the way of Him;
14. as it is written, prepare in the wilderness the way of . . . , make straight in the desert a path for our god (Isa. xl, 3).
15. This (path) is the study of the Law which He commanded by the hand of Moses, that they may do according to all that has been revealed from age to age,
16. and as Prophets have revealed by His Holy Spirit. And no man among the members of the Covenant
17. of the Community who deliberately, on any point whatever, turns aside from all that is commanded, shall touch the pure Meal of the men of holiness
18. or know anything of their counsel until his deeds are purified from all falsehood and he walks in perfection of way. And then, according to the judgement of the Congregation,
19. he shall be admitted to the Council and shall be inscribed in his rank. This rule shall apply to whoever enters the Community.
20. And these are the rules which the men of perfect holiness shall follow in their commerce with one another
21. Every man who enters the Council of Holiness, (the Council of those)
    who walk in the way of perfection as commanded by God, and who deliberately or through negligence
22. transgresses one word of the Law of Moses, on any point whatever, shall be expelled from the Council of the Community
23. and shall return no more; no man of holiness shall be associated in his property or counsel in any
24. matter at all. But if he has acted inadvertently, he shall be excluded from the pure meal and the Council and they shall interpret the rule
25. (as follows). For two years he shall take no part in judgement or ask for counsel; but if, during that time, his way becomes perfect,
26. then he shall return to the (Court of) the Congregation, provided that he commit no further inadvertent sin during two full years.

ccat.sas.upenn.edu/gopher/other/courses/rels/225/Texts/1QS

 

[Chris_LaRock]

I had Moromon Missionaries tell me that Joseph Smith predicted the Civil War, and therefore is proven to be a prophet. What I told them was that the political climate of the early 1800’s that lead to the Civil War were apparent even in Smith’s time, so he didn’t really need to be a prophet in order to speculate that a civil war was going to happen.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Hi Chris Rock, the civil war prophecy was really a failed prophecy and here is why,

False Prophecy #2: Civil War Prophecy
…
An understanding of the political background of the prophecy tells an interesting story.

As early as July, 1832, South Carolina had shown itself to be a somewhat rebellious member of the Union, and had even threatened to secede from the union (this was because of a tariff act Congress had passed which South Carolina had rejected). . . In the interim between the events of July 1832 and the December 1832 prophecy of Smith, the Mormon leader had been to New York city, where there was was general concern that South Carolina would secede from the Union. After Smith�s return to Ohio, South Carolina threatened secession if the tariff act was enforced. The date of Joseph Smith’s prophecy is December 25, 1832, five months after the beginning of the turmoil in South Carolina, during which time Smith had been exposed to the rumours of secession and war while in New York.

This news reached Ohio in due course and on December 25, l832, Joseph prophesied of a war that would originate in South Carolina. The point to note is this: since the news about the threat of war was public knowledge before Dec.25, l832, Smith had good material for his prediction. All the statement of South Carolina shows is that Joseph Smith knew the political situation of the time, and of course he would have known it, it was common knowledge that South Carolina had threatened secession over the tariff act.

So it is not simply a case that Joseph could not have known anything in advance; on the contrary, he surely knew that South Carolina was very likely going to secede and start a war. The details of the prophecy, as recorded below, show that Smith was very much in error about the details of the war, and hence his credibility as a “prophet” is destroyed.

Below is the text of the prophecy from Doctrine and Covenants (emphasis mine). It is well to read the prophecy with the political background in mind.

“Verily, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls; And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place. For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations. And it shall come to pass, after many days, **slaves shall rise up against their masters, **who shall be marshaled and disciplined for war. And it shall come to pass also that the remnants who are left of the land will marshal themselves, and shall become exceedingly angry, and shall vex the Gentiles with a sore vexation. And thus, with the sword and by bloodshed the inhabitants of the earth shall mourn; and with famine, and plague, and earthquake, and the thunder of heaven, and the fierce and vivid lightning also, shall the inhabitants of the earth be made to feel the wrath, and indignation, and chastening hand of an Almighty God, until the consumption decreed hath made a full end of all nations”(D&C: Section 87:1-6) Also RLDS Church History, Vol. l, pp. 262-263)

Response:

Although the Civil War did occur, it was never “poured out upon all nations” and did not lead to **“a full end of all nations.” **Also, slaves did not rise up in rebellion against their masters. In other words, a lot of this prophecy never in fact came to pass. And the part that did aparently come to pass, the starting of the Civil War in South Carolina, and the Southern States fighting the Northern States, was something that could easily have been discerned as early as 1832, as the political situation was indeed very volatile at that time in South Carolina. The war was certainly not “poured out upon all nations”, and we still have nations in the 21st century, and had them after the Civil War too, so there was no “full end of all nations”. Therefore the prophecy is false.

angelfire.com/ms/seanie/mormon/mormon6.html

 

[Mom_of_5]

There is only proof that Smith was not a true prophet. A true prophet would have all prophesies come to pass. Smith made made “conjectures”, very few came almost to fruition.

Love and peace

Mom of 5

 

[Chris_LaRock]

What I’m saying is that Joseph Smith predicting a civil war wouldn’t make him a prophet, since all of the political signs were pointing to that outcome anyway. It was an obvious chain of events.

I predict that terrorism will increase in Iraq when they hang Saddam! Does that make me a prophet? (joke)

 

[Catholic_Dude]

What I’m saying is that Joseph Smith predicting a civil war wouldn’t make him a prophet, since all of the political signs were pointing to that outcome anyway. It was an obvious chain of events.

I predict that terrorism will increase in Iraq when they hang Saddam! Does that make me a prophet? (joke)

Im going to predict the winner of the civil war myself:
Oregon 28-Oregon St 10.

 

[catsrus]

In answer to the op; there is no such proof.
Never has been.
Never will be.
Because, he wasn’t.

 

[PaulDupre]

I had Moromon Missionaries tell me that Joseph Smith predicted the Civil War, and therefore is proven to be a prophet. What I told them was that the political climate of the early 1800’s that lead to the Civil War were apparent even in Smith’s time, so he didn’t really need to be a prophet in order to speculate that a civil war was going to happen.

By 1830, you could have read predictions of the civil war on the editorial page of any major newspaper. The fact is, the rest of Joseph’s “prophecy” was dead wrong.

God bless,
Paul

 

[PaulDupre]

Those Qumran guys must have been great fun at parties.

Paul

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I thought the Essenes were celibate!!!

That sneaky Joseph Smith…

And the members of the Dead Sea Sect didn’t evangelise, either ​

They were Jews who regarded the Temple in Jerusalem as not really legitimate. They regarded themselves as the end-time community - so there’s no excuse for confusing them with Christians.

BTW, as Smith was not a prophet - how can one prove that he was ? ##