Proof of a Divinely Intelligent Creator

[MariaTS]

Some of the most important evidence that proves a Divinely Intelligent Creator

1. Evolution
2. Medical Science
3. Mathematics
4. History
5. Language
6. Disabilities
7. Astronomy
8. Geography
9. Diversity
10. Jesus Christ

 

[Oreoracle]

Some of the most important evidence that proves a Divinely Intelligent Creator

Well, to prove something is to make it evident beyond a shadow of a doubt. I think you are giving your observations a bit too much credit if you think you’ve accomplished that.

1. Evolution

The driving mechanism of evolution is natural selection, the process by which certain animals thrive (living to reproduce) and others die in an environment given their traits. This doesn’t seem to be designed, it’s just an inevitability. An animal more adapted to an environment will fare better in it. That’s all there is to it. Saying that this is a proof of God is like saying that a boulder rolling down a hill is proof of God.

1. Medical Science

This sounds more like a product of mankind’s ingenuity. I suppose you could say that medical science only came as far as it did because of our amazing anatomy, but our anatomy doesn’t appear to be God’s creation. Evolution seems to account for it.

1. Mathematics

Now you’re just being silly. Mathematics consists of a series of terms with arbitrary values (numbers) whose relationships are dictated by axioms, postulates, properties, and the definitions of operations. The system only exists conceptually.

1. History

Err…the succession of events is proof of God in what way???

1. Language
2. Disabilities

Biology accounts for these two…

1. Geography

As pretty and neat as the world can look at times, we can’t overlook the fact that beauty and order are subjective notions.

1. Diversity

And if the universe were “designed” so that things were typically uniform, you would cite uniformity as one of your proofs, too. You’re grasping for straws here.

 

[beeliner]

Some of the most important evidence that proves a Divinely Intelligent Creator

1. Evolution
2. Medical Science
3. Mathematics
4. History
5. Language
6. Disabilities
7. Astronomy
8. Geography
9. Diversity
10. Jesus Christ

Sorry, M, I don’t see proof in ANY of those.

God must be discerned through faith, and He will always grant that gift of faith to those who seek it.

 

[Dameedna]

Sorry, M, I don’t see proof in ANY of those.

God must be discerned through faith, and He will always grant that gift of faith to those who seek it.

Ah yes, the ole “if you dont’ agree with my belief in God and religion”…you just weren’t seeking enough.(Trying enough)

In other words, if you don’t agree with me…there’s something wrong with you. Sorry, that’s simply not the case, no matter what you want to believe.

And yes, there is no “proof” in the OP. Just goes to show that people see what they want.

 

[wanstronian]

Well, to prove something is to make it evident beyond a shadow of a doubt. I think you are giving your observations a bit too much credit if you think you’ve accomplished that.

The driving mechanism of evolution is natural selection, the process by which certain animals thrive (living to reproduce) and others die in an environment given their traits. This doesn’t seem to be designed, it’s just an inevitability. An animal more adapted to an environment will fare better in it. That’s all there is to it. Saying that this is a proof of God is like saying that a boulder rolling down a hill is proof of God.

This sounds more like a product of mankind’s ingenuity. I suppose you could say that medical science only came as far as it did because of our amazing anatomy, but our anatomy doesn’t appear to be God’s creation. Evolution seems to account for it.

Now you’re just being silly. Mathematics consists of a series of terms with arbitrary values (numbers) whose relationships are dictated by axioms, postulates, properties, and the definitions of operations. The system only exists conceptually.

Err…the succession of events is proof of God in what way???

Biology accounts for these two…

As pretty and neat as the world can look at times, we can’t overlook the fact that beauty and order are subjective notions.

And if the universe were “designed” so that things were typically uniform, you would cite uniformity as one of your proofs, too. You’re grasping for straws here.

Wow - you gave the OP much more credit than it deserved. :bowdown:

 

[stenlis]

Some of the most important evidence that proves a Divinely Intelligent Creator

1. Evolution
2. Medical Science
3. Mathematics
4. History
5. Language
6. Disabilities
7. Astronomy
8. Geography
9. Diversity
10. Jesus Christ

Geography?

…

GEOGRAPHY?

Man, never mind the other ones. Please, elaborate how geography is one of the most important proofs for the existence of god!

 

[andersbranderud]

Some of the most important evidence that proves a Divinely Intelligent Creator

1. Evolution
2. Medical Science
3. Mathematics
4. History
5. Language
6. Disabilities
7. Astronomy
8. Geography
9. Diversity
10. Jesus Christ

Without a Prime Cause there wouldn’t be any evolution, there wouldn’t be any medical science, there wouldn’t be any history… Maybe that is what you mean, but it is possible to state it in a formal logical way. And at the same time I will quote a proof of what the Creator’s purpose is.

According to science our universe (space-time) has a beginning (arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/9403004).The.The) paper found on Arxiv.org is written by the cosmologist Alexander Vilenkin of the Tufts university and Arvind Bonde.)

It is a fundamental law of physics (causality) that every physical occurrence in space-time has a cause. Since space-time has a beginning there was a first physical occurrence. Causality requires that the first physical occurrence had a cause. Causality and the fact that space-time has a beginning implies that this Prime Cause is non-dimensional and independent of space-time.

To conclude the above paragraphs:
Fact: No thing nor event in the known universe or laws of physics lacks a cause.
Assume: There is no Prime Cause (Creator).
Ergo: There is no universe.
Fact: There is a universe.
Therefore: the statement that was assumed is proven to be a false statement by reduction ad absurdum (proof by disproof).
(Since “There is no Creator” is proven false, the opposite is true: There is a Creator.)

Being logically consistent (orderly), our (to say perfectly-orderly would be a tautology) orderly universe must mirror its Prime Cause / Singularity-Creator—Who must be Orderly; i.e. Perfect. An orderly—“not capricious,” as Einstein put it—Creator (also implying Just), therefore, necessarily had an Intelligent Purpose in creating this universe and us within it and, being Just and Orderly, necessarily placed an explanation, a “Life’s Instruction Manual,” within the reach of His subjects—humankind.

It defies the orderliness (logic / mathematics) of both the universe and Perfection of its Creator to assert that humanity was (contrary to His Torah, see below) without any means of rapproachment until millennia after the first couple in recorded history as well as millennia after Abraham, Moses and the prophets. Therefore, the Creator’s “Life’s Instruction Manual” has been available to man at least since the beginning of recorded history. The only enduring document of this kind is the Torah —which, interestingly, translates to “Instruction” (not “law” as popularly alleged). (Some of the text is a quote from www.netzarim.co.il)

The fact that the Creator is perfect implies that He isn’t self-contradictory. Therefore any religion, and all religions contradicts each other (otherwise they would be identical), that contradicts Torah is the antithesis to the Creator.

Anders Branderud

 

[wanstronian]

Without a Prime Cause there wouldn’t be any evolution, there wouldn’t be any medical science, there wouldn’t be any history… Maybe that is what you mean, but it is possible to state it in a formal logical way. And at the same time I will quote a proof of what the Creator’s purpose is.

According to science our universe (space-time) has a beginning (arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/9403004).The paper found on Arxiv.org is written by the cosmologist Alexander Vilenkin of the Tufts university and Arvind Bonde.)

It is a fundamental law of physics (causality) that every physical occurrence in space-time has a cause. Since space-time has a beginning there was a first physical occurrence. Causality requires that the first physical occurrence had a cause. Causality and the fact that space-time has a beginning implies that this Prime Cause is non-dimensional and independent of space-time.

To conclude the above paragraphs:
Fact: No thing nor event in the known universe or laws of physics lacks a cause.
Assume: There is no Prime Cause (Creator).
Ergo: There is no universe.
Fact: There is a universe.
Therefore: the statement that was assumed is proven to be a false statement by reduction ad absurdum (proof by disproof).
(Since “There is no Creator” is proven false, the opposite is true: There is a Creator.)

Being logically consistent (orderly), our (to say perfectly-orderly would be a tautology) orderly universe must mirror its Prime Cause / Singularity-Creator—Who must be Orderly; i.e. Perfect. An orderly—“not capricious,” as Einstein put it—Creator (also implying Just), therefore, necessarily had an Intelligent Purpose in creating this universe and us within it and, being Just and Orderly, necessarily placed an explanation, a “Life’s Instruction Manual,” within the reach of His subjects—humankind.

It defies the orderliness (logic / mathematics) of both the universe and Perfection of its Creator to assert that humanity was (contrary to His Torah, see below) without any means of rapproachment until millennia after the first couple in recorded history as well as millennia after Abraham, Moses and the prophets. Therefore, the Creator’s “Life’s Instruction Manual” has been available to man at least since the beginning of recorded history. The only enduring document of this kind is the Torah —which, interestingly, translates to “Instruction” (not “law” as popularly alleged). (Some of the text is a quote from www.netzarim.co.il)

The fact that the Creator is perfect implies that He isn’t self-contradictory. Therefore any religion, and all religions contradicts each other (otherwise they would be identical), that contradicts Torah is the antithesis to the Creator.

Anders Branderud

Are you even aware of the awful logic in your so-called proof?

 

[tonyrey]

Some of the most important evidence that proves a Divinely Intelligent Creator

1. Evolution
2. Medical Science
3. Mathematics
4. History
5. Language
6. Disabilities
7. Astronomy
8. Geography
9. Diversity
10. Jesus Christ

Bravo, Maria! In spite of the barrage of criticism you are right. These facts are evidence for the existence of the Creator:

1. The development of rational beings from irrational particles is by any standards a unique and incredible achievement.
2. Medical science reveals the staggering complexity of the human body, the extent to which the holistic view of health has replaced the physicalist approach and the superiority of the Argument from Design…
3. The power and beauty of mathematics demonstrate the inadequacy of materialism
4. History reveals the extent to which human beings have the power to choose good or evil - and to create or destroy.
5. The development of language is evidence of the power of reason.
6. Disabilities have revealed the power of the human spirit to overcome adversity.
7. Astronomy reveals the beauty, power, order and immensity of the universe.
8. Geography gives further insight into the wealth of Creation.
9. The diversity, beauty and richness of life on earth is further evidence for Design.
10. The life and teaching of Jesus are convincing evidence of the truth of His message.

 

[beeliner]

Are you even aware of the awful logic in your so-called proof?

I have often said, in discussions with atheists and also with believers, that to me, the fact that anything exists at all is evidence of a purpose and/or a higher power. To that extent I agree with some of the arguments to which poster anders… alludes. But my agreement is philosophical rather than scientific.

Taken as a whole, the paper is pretty much a joke. It’s been generally agreed since the time of Kant, and perhaps before, that God must be discerned by faith.

I don’t question the sincerity of those who keep attempting to prove otherwise. Sincerity is not proof.

tonyrey:

Bravo, Maria! In spite of the barrage of criticism you are right. These facts are evidence for the existence of the Creator:

Well, the ‘barrage’, if you want to call it that, is directed only at the word ‘proves’, as used by the original poster.

None of the things she mentions meet the requirements of proof. If she had said ‘indicates’ or even ‘suggests’, rather than ‘proves’, I would agree with her, and with the previous poster - to some extent.

 

[tonyrey]

tonyrey

You are sadly mistaken if you think the criticism is directed only at the word ‘proves’. They don’t even regard it as evidence!

 

[wanstronian]

You are sadly mistaken if you think the criticism is directed only at the word ‘proves’. They don’t even regard it as evidence!

Because it clearly isn’t.

 

[John21652]

Proof of a Devinely Inteligent Creator…

Me.
Oh, and you too.

Think about it.

 

[beeliner]

1. You are sadly mistaken if you think the criticism is directed only at the word ‘proves’.
2. They don’t even regard it as evidence!

1. MY criticism was so directed.
2. Who are ‘they’? Some do and some don’t. Of those who do, they do so because of their underlying religious faith.

I think we may have reached the going-around-in-circles point here.

 

[tonyrey]

Because it clearly isn’t.

Prove it!

 

[AlbertBall]

Wow - you gave the OP much more credit than it deserved. :bowdown:

^^^^ :bowdown2:

 

[wanstronian]

Prove it!

As you know, I don’t have to, because I’m not the one making the outrageous claim.

 

[wanstronian]

Proof of a Devinely Inteligent Creator…

Me.
Oh, and you too.

Think about it.

Ok, I’ve thought about it. I can’t see the proof, you’ll have to explain it to me.
Is yours another argument from incredulity, while you conveniently ignore all the problems inherent in postulating God as the answer?

 

[tonyrey]

As you know, I don’t have to, because I’m not the one making the outrageous claim.

You have made a claim that it does not constitute evidence…

 

[Oreoracle]

You have made a claim that it does not constitute evidence…

Well, let’s see here. According to your argument, if someone claims that the existence of Cheetos is proof that fairies exist, and I don’t accept their claim, I essentially have to proof that fairies don’t exist in order to be justified in my unbelief.

I’m going to make that claim now: The existence of the Cheeto clearly proves that fairies exist. I don’t have to explain why, because Maria didn’t explain her ten proofs. You can either accept the claim or not, and if you don’t, you’ll have to prove that fairies don’t exist. And in the scientific world, “we’ve never seen one before” isn’t a reason to dismiss the existence of a species.