Proof of God

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lucymeadhbh

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I never usually ask these questions because I believe it’s important to keep your eyes on God and He is the only one that can decide the fate of an immortal soul, but I’m very curious. I’m hearing a lot of people lately (atheists) who say that their is no concrete proof that God exists and that is why they choose not to believe. They say that when God reveals Himself to him\her then they will believe in His existence. Now I have quite a good faith and don’t need concrete evidence to prove God exists, I believe you get enough proof by opening your heart to God. However I realise that this argument does not hold water with the people who demand proof. My question is though: How do you think God feels about this? Are these people who deny the truth? Therefore are their souls in great moral peril? Or are they seen as Doubting Thomas’, who will believe the truth when it is tangible?
I appreciate any thoughts you might have.
God Bless,
Meadhbh
 
My experience is that if someone is waiting on GOD to show him self first they will have a looong wait. He definitely expects us to make the first move, will sometimes make our lives a mess to encourage that first move, and is quick to respond to all those who do!

I also add that Atheist for the most part, are almost always looking for an excuse not to.

My two pennies.
 
Dear Lucy, see that Pope John Paul II had already told us in his Encyclical letter “Fides et Ratio”, as its name indicates, that there are two ways to get the truth: faith and reason. Fair enough, then, that our priests are introduced in both studies of philosophy and theology, because they are two sides of the truth.

There is no concrete proof of knowledge about the existence of God. However, there is no concrete proof of knowledge about their non-existence. Disbelief has nothing to further or higher that belief. In this analysis, both an atheist as a theist would be in the same category. However, one has to say that there is not a proof, but evidence to support the hypothesis of the existence of one God.

The cosmological argument, the propositions of St. Thomas Aquinas and St. Anselm, and St. Augustine and thoughts formulated by Plato and Aristotle are strong arguments in favor of this hypothesis. Blaise Pascal and Descartes also contributed much on these considerations. I will not write here in detail about these and other philosophers and scientists, but I left there names for the measure of your curiosity.

Ultimately, I will say the most basic argument for believing in one God. Every cause has a consequence. Everything that happens in the universe had a cause, which also had a cause etc. By induction, we should get either a first cause or an infinite sequence of causes, but the last consideration is not logical. The universe could not be infinite because it would imply the infinity of matter. This concept is already shown as incoherent both by physics and the theory of infinite Cantor and Hilbert formulated etc. Must have been, then, a first cause that could not have been caused. It can not therefore have come into being, but always have existed, being unchanging and timeless. One of the best things that would fit this conception is the creative entity which we call God!

All these thoughts come from the intellectual honesty of each person. Therefore, you should not blame those who do not understand or know that depth to believe in Christ, because they do not need that. But without faith we can not walk, because without faith we would be creating an empty science.

Pax et Bonum. 👍
 
God by definition is the greatest thing the mind can conceive of.

God exists in the mind (even a skeptic will say a figment of the imagination).

It’s possible God exists.

For good things, it’s better to exist in reality than the mind alone.

If God did not exist, I could conceive of a God that did exist. Which is to say if God doesn’t exist, I could conceive of something greater than the greatest conceivable thing.

This is a contradiction. Therefore God exists.
 
lucymeadhbh said:
How do you think God feels about this?
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God tells us in the Bible: “Romans 1:20 affirms that God’s existence is “clearly perceived in the things that have been made”, just as a painting is proof that there was an artist who painted it. Just as the Bible reads, when we scientifically analyze “the things that have been made”, we find God’s fingerprints all over them”:

ArguingWithAtheists.com/Pages/Intelligent_Design.htm

And you might want to order this:

shop.catholic.com/catholic-digital-media/audio-1/mp3-how-to-talk-to-atheists.html
 
One should not expect to find evidence of the Supernatural in the natural world
 
“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don’t believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase

Jim
 
Steveabrous said:
One should not expect to find evidence of the Supernatural in the natural world
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However, that’s not Biblical. Paul speaking to atheists: “For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse” (Romans 1:20).

That is what Intelligent Design is all about, revealing God, through His creation, as the Bible says.
 
Steinway said:
However, that’s not Biblical. Paul speaking to atheists: “For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse” (Romans 1:20).

That is what Intelligent Design is all about, revealing God, through His creation, as the Bible says.
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I agree. Creation it’s self is evidence of a creator. My point is that you won’t find God through scientific methods. Which is what atheists mean when they say “No evidence”.
 
Steveabrous said:
I agree. Creation it’s self is evidence of a creator. My point is that you won’t find God through scientific methods. Which is what atheists mean when they say “No evidence”.
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There is actually a lot of evidence, atheists have no idea what they are talking about.

shop.catholic.com/catholic-digital-media/audio-1/mp3-how-to-talk-to-atheists.html

Dr. William Lane Craig is the man whom Richard Dawkins, the world’s most famous atheist, refuses to debate. Dr. Craig holds two PhDs and is a leading expert on the cosmological argument for God’s existence. His website is reasonablefaith.org.

Jennifer Fulwiler grew up in an atheist home but is now one of the most widely read female Catholic bloggers. She is also an author and reality TV show star (Minor Revisions). Her ruminations and incisive commentary can be found at conversiondiary.com.

Robert Spitzer, S.J., Ph.D., the former president of Gonzaga University in Spokane, Washington, has debated Stephen Hawking, Leonard Mlodinow, and Deepak Chopra on Larry King Live and has appeared on the Today Show and the History Channel. Fr. Spitzer is the president of the Magis Center for Reason and Faith in Irvine, California, found online at magisreasonfaith.org.
 
They are loved beyond words and we are ask to pray for them always.
 
Well, God revealed Himself to me when I passionately pursued everything to find Him. The most important thing to me was truth, and I was willing to live according to the bible with the hope that God, if He existed, would give me faith. I had an encounter with His light and love once I repented and prayed.

There are many who I think are indifferent to truth, or set the bar high not for the sake of finding the truth, but for not “wasting their lives” looking for God. They think that they should live their only life according to their own desires, and I believe they secretly hope that God, if He exists, will not send them to hell for their beliefs and attitudes. These are the same people who insist that their religion is determined by their upbringing, so it would not be just to send someone to hell for circumstances they cannot control.

I think that God will reveal to them in judgement how many times he sent witnesses to them preaching the gospel but they ignored it, and so they would be culpable for it–they cannot use the excuse that they never heard it. That is what I think will happen.

I think St. Thomas was seeking truth, not running from it, so God helped Him.
 
I truly beg to differ. You most certainly can find proof of GOD through science, but most non believers choose to have a blind eye in that direction to. The image on the veil, the finding of Noah’s Arch are two. My favorite example of science and GOD would be to YouTube the phrase “Bethlehem Star”. Even those who do not need proof would find this awesome to watch. I don’t need proof, but seeing it makes me feel so awesome over him
 
“who will believe the truth when it is tangible?”

I would for a start! And that is all I will believe. For myself, anything else is the corruption of faith. I shall explain.

A man comes to me lost and I offer him the path to find his way to where he wants to go. When that man take my instructions, which is itself an act of faith and trust on his part, and then finds the location he has been seeking, it does not diminish his faith or trust in me but he learns and now knows that I am a sure source for guidance. His faith is not diminished but increased and more prepared than before to seek out my counsel on other matters. A relationship begins and is strengthened by the security of certain, ‘tangible’ knowledge.

That is true among men and should be the case with God. Let HIm offer guidance unavailable to human nature, that demands and tests our faith and trust to discover and confirm a new ‘tangible’ insight that deserves to be called a true revelation!
energon.org.uk
 
Steinway said:
There is actually a lot of evidence, atheists have no idea what they are talking about.

shop.catholic.com/catholic-digital-media/audio-1/mp3-how-to-talk-to-atheists.html

Dr. William Lane Craig is the man whom Richard Dawkins, the world’s most famous atheist, refuses to debate. Dr. Craig holds two PhDs and is a leading expert on the cosmological argument for God’s existence. His website is reasonablefaith.org.

Jennifer Fulwiler grew up in an atheist home but is now one of the most widely read female Catholic bloggers. She is also an author and reality TV show star (Minor Revisions). Her ruminations and incisive commentary can be found at conversiondiary.com.

Robert Spitzer, S.J., Ph.D., the former president of Gonzaga University in Spokane, Washington, has debated Stephen Hawking, Leonard Mlodinow, and Deepak Chopra on Larry King Live and has appeared on the Today Show and the History Channel. Fr. Spitzer is the president of the Magis Center for Reason and Faith in Irvine, California, found online at magisreasonfaith.org.
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Dawkins is a cowherd who refuses to debate anyone who can knock down his strawman arguments. As much as I love William lane Craig he has not scientifically proven the existence of God. What he does is make a logical, philosophical argument based on science. He is not peer reviewed to my knowledge. If you go to an atheist with “WLC proves through science the existence of God” they will eat you alive.

My point is this when an atheist says’ No proof" the mean no proof of the existence of God like we have proof of the existence of whales, or kangaroo’s. And since God is supernatural you are not going to find that kind of proof in the natural world. Existence of God is not a scientific matter. It is one of logic and philosophy.

The atheist say’s there is no scientific proof in the natural world for the existence of God.

My point is that their point is a falacy. You would not look for proof of the existence of a supernatural being in the natural world anymore then you would look for proof of the existence of a cat in the ocean.
 
johnnyiii said:
I truly beg to differ. You most certainly can find proof of GOD through science, but most non believers choose to have a blind eye in that direction to. The image on the veil, the finding of Noah’s Arch are two. My favorite example of science and GOD would be to YouTube the phrase “Bethlehem Star”. Even those who do not need proof would find this awesome to watch. I don’t need proof, but seeing it makes me feel so awesome over him
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O.K. let’s be clear on the meaning of terms. Proof means it has been proven. For example: I can prove to you the existence of cats, I can prove the existence of fire, I can prove the existence of wind. There is no proof of the existence of God (other then creation itself). Nor should we expect to find such proof since God is a supernatural being, and there would be no proof in the natural world.

There is ,However, evidence of the existence of God. But evidence is open to interpretation. For example: If I am terminally ill, and I pray to God for healing, then I am no longer sick. You and I would say that is evidence for the existence of God and the power of prayer. But someone who’s heart is not open to God would say remission of terminal illness happens, and it is just coincidence it happened when you prayed.

Do you see the difference? Proof is undeniable. Evidence is open to interpretation.
 
Steinway said:
However, that’s not Biblical. Paul speaking to atheists: “For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse” (Romans 1:20).

That is what Intelligent Design is all about, revealing God, through His creation, as the Bible says.
Click to expand...
Your right I meant to say proof
 
johnnyiii said:
. The image on the veil,
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It is not scientifically proven those images ( shroud of turrin, etc.) are the supernatural impression’s left by Jesus. That is, however, the most probable explaination in my opinion.
johnnyiii said:
the finding of Noah’s Arch .
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They have not found the Arc. Satelite images on mt. ararat show some kind of structure. Many believe it is the arc, but it has not been proven. Even if it were. All that proves is the story in the bible has some kind of root to that tradition. It doesn’t prove the flood
 
St. Thomas Auinas:

St. Thomas Aquinas 5 proofs of God’s existence

You could always counter with: Since it is the normative convention that God exists and you hold the opposit to the norm, the burden of proof is upon you to prove your hypothosis.

Don’t let athiests bully you. It takes far more “faith” to be an athiest. The prime reason for a not believing in God is that if he exists they must change their life. They fear that.

:knight1:
 
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