Proof that Novus Ordo is NOT a Kumbaya service

  • Thread starter Thread starter CatholicOf94
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

CatholicOf94

Guest
Hi, I just wanted to post this thread up to show that the Novus Ordo isn’t a ‘Kumbaya service’ as some extreme traditionalist think. I believe that the new mass, if done properly and WITH REVERENCE can turn out just as lovely as the Latin Mass.
The main problem are all the ‘liberal Catholics’ who wish to be ‘creative’ and distort the mass to their fashion. But while being ‘creative’ they transformed the Holy mass to a community ceremony, or even worse a concert! A Holy communion to a ‘happy meal’

What are your thoughts?

Catholic
http://catholic-hythe.org/IMAGEScathhythewebsite/altar.JPG
Kumbaya
http://www.stbedesok.org/images/Finished_altar_light_big.jpg

Catholic
http://www.choralonline.com/Church Choir.jpg
Kumbaya


Catholic

Kumbaya
http://www.ritnewman.org/photos/0000/0079/mass09_small.jpg

Catholic
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Kumbaya
http://www.jsav.org/images/archie.jpg
Catholic
newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44248000/jpg/_44248107_queen07congregation416_pa.jpg
Kumbaya
i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc113/kpeagleton/congregation-small.jpg
 
Unfortunately Rome and mainstream Roman Catholicism doesn’t see it the way you and I do. Both the " Catholic Mass" and the “Kumbaya Mass” are both expressions of the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite, including the Neocatecomical Mass. All Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite. Hence the problem!!. As to the first picture. I would get rid of the wooden altar and have the priest face the same direction as the congregation, like they do in Eastern Churches, and the Extraordinary Form. Remember the priest is not the center of attention. And I don’t care how they do it on EWTN. It’s not the traditional way!.
 
Great!
That`s one High Altar that escaped the jackhammers!

Now, if they could get rid of that table, and use the original, the picture would be perfect.
 
Another think to ponder. If you look at “traditional” Roman Rite vestments. They all have very beautiful artwork weaved on the back of the vestments. Like a cross with iHs or a holy image. With the priest facing the same direction as the congregation the beautiful image is exposed. With the priest facing the people it is hidden. So why have beautiful vestments for liturgical worship if they are hidden.
 
bkovacs said:
Another think to ponder. If you look at “traditional” Roman Rite vestments. They all have very beautiful artwork weaved on the back of the vestments. Like a cross with iHs or a holy image. With the priest facing the same direction as the congregation the beautiful image is exposed. With the priest facing the people it is hidden. So why have beautiful vestments for liturgical worship if they are hidden.
Click to expand...
Couldn’t you just put the decorations on the front?
 
No!. They still would be hidden in the Benedictine arrangement. Reverse thought. Can’t priests just face the same direction as the congregation!. Do we really need to see their faces!. Are we there to worship God or focus on them.
 
bkovacs said:
Unfortunately Rome and mainstream Roman Catholicism doesn’t see it the way you and I do. Both the " Catholic Mass" and the “Kumbaya Mass” are both expressions of the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite, including the Neocatecomical Mass. All Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite. Hence the problem!!. As to the first picture. I would get rid of the wooden altar and have the priest face the same direction as the congregation, like they do in Eastern Churches, and the Extraordinary Form. Remember the priest is not the center of attention. And I don’t care how they do it on EWTN. It’s not the traditional way!.
Click to expand...
i agree about getting “rid of the wooden altar…”. While ever those wretched wooden tables (which look more like dining room tables than altars) remain, the FALSE idea that the Mass is, first and foremost, a community meal will be fostered. What better way is there to reinforce the TRUTH that the Mass is, first and foremost The Sacrifice of Calvary re-presented in an unbloody manner than to use a proper altar, especially if it`s like the magnificent one shown?

Excuse my ignorance on this one, but…what`s the “Neocatecomical (“Neocatecumenal” deliberately misspelt?) Mass”?. Or is it too painful for you to explain?!
 
I might take exception to the “Kumbaya” label on the second picture. There’s a chalice veil and a bell on that altar!

Betsy
 
SunnaB16 said:
i agree about getting “rid of the wooden altar…”. While ever those wretched wooden tables (which look more like dining room tables than altars) remain, the FALSE idea that the Mass is, first and foremost, a community meal will be fostered. What better way is there to reinforce the TRUTH that the Mass is, first and foremost The Sacrifice of Calvary re-presented in an unbloody manner than to use a proper altar, especially if it`s like the magnificent one shown?

Excuse my ignorance on this one, but…what`s the “Neocatecomical (“Neocatecumenal” deliberately misspelt?) Mass”?. Or is it too painful for you to explain?!
Click to expand...
Believe me I have no pain whatsoever in calling it a Neocatecomical Mass. Like teen Masses. Teens need to learn the traditional ways, so they can pass them on to future generations. Not innovations that resemble Protestant practices.
 
bkovacs said:
No!. They still would be hidden in the Benedictine arrangement. Reverse thought. Can’t priests just face the same direction as the congregation!. Do we really need to see their faces!. Are we there to worship God or focus on them.
Click to expand...
Can we clarify some things first?

Is it just your personal preference that it be ad orientem? Do you think that Masses that aren’t ad orientem aren’t valid? Do you think that Rome doesn’t have the right to allow versus populum Masses?
 
bkovacs said:
Believe me I have no pain whatsoever in calling it a Neocatecomical Mass. Like teen Masses. Teens need to learn the traditional ways, so they can pass them on to future generations. Not innovations that resemble Protestant practices.
Click to expand...
And some dopey people wonder why so many young people (Is it 95%?) “stop practising the Faith” when they leave school! In a lot of cases, they were probably practising only what they THOUGHT was the Faith. Who can blame em for leaving such (seemingly) empty mush? Theres a perverse echo of Archbishop Sheen`s words: “…millions who hate what they THINK is…”

If the Church were as “junky” as It is so often portrayed by pathetic 'liturgies", lousy “catechesis” and the rest, i`d be too embarrassed. or even ashamed, to admit to being a Catholic.

Getting off topic, though.
 
curlycool89 said:
Can we clarify some things first?

Is it just your personal preference that it be ad orientem? Do you think that Masses that aren’t ad orientem aren’t valid? Do you think that Rome doesn’t have the right to allow versus populum Masses?
Click to expand...
Give him a break, he didn’t say any of that. The argument that it needs to be ad orientem so that we can admire the pretty designs on the backs of chasubles is an obvious nonstarter, but otherwise the view he expressed was pretty mainstream.
 
MarkThompson said:
Give him a break, he didn’t say any of that. The argument that it needs to be ad orientem so that we can admire the pretty designs on the backs of chasubles is an obvious nonstarter, but otherwise the view he expressed was pretty mainstream.
Click to expand...
I’m just asking to see where he’s coming from. There’s a different if I’m talking to someone who has a preference for ad orientem versus talking to someone who thinks Masses that aren’t ad orientem are invalid versus talking to someone who thinks that Rome doesn’t have the right to allow versus populum.
bkovacs said:
Watch this video and you get my point.

realcatholictv.com/share/watch.php?vidID=vort-2010-07-08
Click to expand...
You’re going to need to go into details, because I’m not getting what you’re saying. Everything Voris said was correct with the exception of the NO being some sort of Catholic-Protestant hybrid (it’s actually very Catholic, and follows quite closely a description given by St. Justin Martyr that is in the CCC from the 3rd century I think).

My preference is to attend a NO Mass said versus populum (which is licit, valid, and allowed by Rome), that’s all. If people want to attend an ad orientem NO or a TLM, then do it. I have no problem with it. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, all I ask is that those people reciprocate and acknowledge that I’m not some liberal or heretic or something; that I’m also a good Catholic.
 
curlycool89 said:
I’m just asking to see where he’s coming from. There’s a different if I’m talking to someone who has a preference for ad orientem versus talking to someone who thinks Masses that aren’t ad orientem are invalid versus talking to someone who thinks that Rome doesn’t have the right to allow versus populum.

You’re going to need to go into details, because I’m not getting what you’re saying. Everything Voris said was correct with the exception of the NO being some sort of Catholic-Protestant hybrid (it’s actually very Catholic, and follows quite closely a description given by St. Justin Martyr that is in the CCC from the 3rd century I think).

My preference is to attend a NO Mass said versus populum (which is licit, valid, and allowed by Rome), that’s all. If people want to attend an ad orientem NO or a TLM, then do it. I have no problem with it. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, all I ask is that those people reciprocate and acknowledge that I’m not some liberal or heretic or something; that I’m also a good Catholic.
Click to expand...
Really Catholic. This follows the description St. Justin Martyr. Perfectly valid NO Mass
the-american-catholic.com/2010/07/05/unholy-mass-in-austria-with-explicit-approval-of-cardinal-schonborn/
 
CatholicOf94 said:
Hi, I just wanted to post this thread up to show that the Novus Ordo isn’t a ‘Kumbaya service’ as some extreme traditionalist think. I believe that the new mass, if done properly and WITH REVERENCE can turn out just as lovely as the Latin Mass.
The main problem are all the ‘liberal Catholics’ who wish to be ‘creative’ and distort the mass to their fashion. But while being ‘creative’ they transformed the Holy mass to a community ceremony, or even worse a concert! A Holy communion to a ‘happy meal’

Kumbaya
http://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/religiousimages/M001_WYDOutdoor Mass_Leaven_8-23-2002.jpg

Catholic
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee69/diwata87/chasuble.jpg
Kumbaya
http://www.ritnewman.org/photos/0000/0079/mass09_small.jpg

Catholic
http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/images/arinze3a.jpg
Kumbaya
http://www.jsav.org/images/archie.jpg
Catholic
newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44248000/jpg/_44248107_queen07congregation416_pa.jpg
Kumbaya
i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc113/kpeagleton/congregation-small.jpg
Click to expand...
I agree. take the charismatic stuff out and bring back the reverance.
 
The masses at EWTN can not be celebrated ad orientem…because the bishop of their diocese has prohibited them from doing so…Mother Angelica got angry when he did that but being the holy, rule following nun that she is she followed what her superior said…its kind of sad that one man can prohibit a whole community from celebrating mass in a certain way,
 
“because the bishop of their diocese has prohibited them from doing so”

I take it that their bishop is no fan of Pope Benedict’s reform of the reform. I guess he wants the priest to be the center of attention, the center of focus.
 
Joining Betsy in taking exception to labeling the second picture “Kumbaya”.

That looks very much like a chapel at a Poor Clare Monastery that I have visited. There are large windows behind the altar. Very nice. Simple, but reverent.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top