Proofs/Arguments for the existence of the Holy Trinity

[ADouglass]

Please either post proofs/arguments for the existence of the Holy Trinity, or direct me to a thread that contains what I am asking for. Thank you. Also, I will submit an argument of mine.

Demons exist.
All demons aknowledge that Jesus Christ has power over them.
Angels exist.
All angels are servants of Jesus Christ, who is the Word of God.

Assuming that final power over the spirit realm is held by the Holy Trinity, we can be sure that the Holy Trinity also has final power over the seen world, because spirit is what guides the seen world.

Of course, I will understand if anyone wants to claim that I am using circular logic. And I by no means claim to have met every single demon and angel, but none the less, if it is true of what my premises state about Angels and Demons, then it is impossible that there is no Holy Trinity. There are many compelling experiences out there that show Demons and Angels are subject to Jesus Christ.

But is there a power greater than the Holy Trinity? Are we living in some kind of “Matrix” in which the Holy Trinity is used as a means to keep those who are just from becoming too much of a problem to those with are not just?

I have a suspicion that the Matrix thesis is self-refuting. Anyone feel free to show how it is self refuting. That would be awesome.

 

[GloriousOrder]

It is often said that the ultimate perfection of a sentient being is to know itself. All cultures believe this is the height of any mature person. Everywhere you go in history, this goal is implanted in the hearts of men. From the Buddhist notion of integration into the Universe, to Christ’s revelation, to modern New Age “inner child” ideas, it remains a notion in humanity. Since humanity is obviously fashioned after the One God (which point all monotheists agree upon), it seems clear that the order to “know thyself” is really an order from the Almighty in the age of ages.

As God is the perfection of everything (because everything flows from Him), we can say God is the perfection of ‘know thyself’. God knows His own self perfectly, and that knowledge is His own existence/essence. His essence is His existence, whereas other things don’t necessarily exist by themselves. By this self-knowledge, God is perfect; He plumbs His own depths 100% of the “time”; that is, always.

God being perfect in His self-knowledge, we must assume that He can see into Himself, in all His eternity and infinity. God being all-power and all-majesty, we can safely assume that everything He perfectly conceives of is created, or made. When the Lord makes something known 100%, it is made in reality. It follows, then, that God’s perfect 100% self-knowledge is a being; not created, not made, but eternal and perfect in God, of God … simply God.

As a spoken Word relates to a thought Idea, so the resulting ‘entity’ is the Word of the Thought, expressing Itself. God has no gender, but created gender for the sake of procreation in the Universe. Since He has no gender, it is improper to call God ‘Father’, but we do so because it’s the closest we come to approximating His role. We call Jesus the Son because that is the closest we can come to understanding the mystical fact.

The Holy Ghost is a simple matter! If the “all things perfectly known by Perfection itself become real” rule is true, then the relationship between Perfect Thought and Perfect Word is a real being, too. God cannot be anything but Trinity, and Unity.

 

[Spencerian]

Please either post proofs/arguments for the existence of the Holy Trinity, or direct me to a thread that contains what I am asking for. Thank you. Also, I will submit an argument of mine.

Demons exist.
All demons aknowledge that Jesus Christ has power over them.
Angels exist.
All angels are servants of Jesus Christ, who is the Word of God.

Assuming that final power over the spirit realm is held by the Holy Trinity, we can be sure that the Holy Trinity also has final power over the seen world, because spirit is what guides the seen world.

Of course, I will understand if anyone wants to claim that I am using circular logic. And I by no means claim to have met every single demon and angel, but none the less, if it is true of what my premises state about Angels and Demons, then it is impossible that there is no Holy Trinity. There are many compelling experiences out there that show Demons and Angels are subject to Jesus Christ.

But is there a power greater than the Holy Trinity? Are we living in some kind of “Matrix” in which the Holy Trinity is used as a means to keep those who are just from becoming too much of a problem to those with are not just?

I have a suspicion that the Matrix thesis is self-refuting. Anyone feel free to show how it is self refuting. That would be awesome.

Hi. As you might be able to tell from my avatar, I’m a fan of “The Matrix” movie series. I can even say that “The Matrix” made me Catholic. But that’s another story. Let me add my thoughts on your question, paraphrased here: “Is there a power greater than the Holy Trinity? Are we living in some Matrix-like world where the just are kept in a form of control?”

For those who don’t know the story, The Matrix, as created by the Wachowski brothers, is an virtual computerized reality, built to give the minds of humans an existence in the late 20th Century that did not interfere with the Machine intelligences (who enslaved all of humanity after a great war). The movie series involves a man, Neo, who has the ability to see the Matrix as it really is and manipulate it greatly. In the end he becomes a messianic hero that sacrifices himself to bring a semblance of peace to both man and machine existence.

Now, that said, here are my answers.

Is there more beyond the Trinity? No. God exists outside of time and place and any other reality we can think of. Before time, before anything, there was God. God exists *beyond *the Real–the very definition of supernatural. Now, that’s Catholic dogma and cannot be proven by science, so I have to leave the answer there.

Do we live in a Matrix-like world? No. The Matrix movies were based heavily on Buddhist and Gnostic concepts, many of which posit that the world as we see it is not real, and, for some believers, that matter itself is an illusion. It worked well enough for the movies and the concept of virtual worlds, but it goes straight against Catholic teaching that says that matter itself is not the only existing object, but neither is spirit the only existing object. Both spirit and matter exist, and there are no instances, no veils, no rabbit holes.

Christ Himself is the ultimate example of where Spirit and matter exist in full.

There is one commonality between God’s creation and the Matrix, however. Both are powered by choice. We can freely choose between God and sin. If we choose God, our strength increases through Grace given to us. It doesn’t allow us to fly like Neo or move objects around through our minds, but Grace gives us the power of eternal life. As Neo could see the illusion of the Matrix, we will, through Christ, gain the Beatific Vision–the sight of God Himself and His Plan.

 

[larsenl1]

Please either post proofs/arguments for the existence of the Holy Trinity, or direct me to a thread that contains what I am asking for. Thank you.

According to the Ignatius Study Bible, Matthew 3:16-17 is evidence of the Holy Trinity

16
After Jesus was baptized, he came up from the water and behold, the heavens were opened (for him), and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove (and) coming upon him.
17
And a voice came from the heavens, saying, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit present in the same place and time.

 

[lemondiesel]

Subscribed, even put my beweifs down

The Father shows himself with age of physical existence. As time ages, so does His connection and experience to his creation.

The Son was the creator, we thank him for Existence. Yet the Son is completely different, because Christ the Son experienced the evils derived from the fall of Man. He has ultimate compassion for his creations. The Son is the Father, just as the Father is the Son.

The Holy Spirit is what thrives creation. It manifests the Natural Laws, causing atoms to act the way they do under certain situations. It connects Us to God while also connecting Us to the universe He created for us. The Father and Son are the Holy Spirit just as the Holy Spirit is the Father and Son. It gives our souls purpose, and the longing to find our True Home.

Physical Existence, to me, is enough proof of the existence of the Holy Trinity.