Proper Dress and Behavior for Catholic Men

[Extempore]

If wearing a collar to you is an expression of your respect towards God, then good. Go ahead and do it. But if wearing something else is somebody else’s expression of our respect towards God than who are you to challenge that? Certainly it is respectful in a business setting to wear a suit. So you say, oh! well then we should at least wear a suit to church!.

Whoa, relativism.

For example, just because “Bob” was somehow raised incorrectly enough to think that wearing a T-shirt to Mass is respectful does not immediately mean that it IS proper and respectful to wear a T-shirt to Mass.

I can challenge this “sign of respect” because it is not respectful. “Bob’s” choosing to wear a T-shirt to Mass won’t make his attire respectful any more than my standing in a garage will turn me into a car.

The point of doing that is that God is above any earthly formalities.

But we are not. The earthly formalities still apply to us.

 

[mchale]

I know I am entering this thread late, but I do have a couple of thoughts on it.

1. Suits, and ties in particular are some of the silliest clothes men wear. I have a couple of suits for the few occasions that actually require them (like job interviews, funerals and weddings) but other than that, I will not wear them. To begin with, even if the suit is relatively cheap, they require dry cleaning after wearing them 5 or 6 times. Ties are the most silly piece of clothing ever! Originally designed to protect the shirt from food stains, they now as often as not cost more than the shirt. After 200 years its time to retire them.
2. Many holy orders deliberately chose the most modest clothes possible as their habit. While I grant that we are not all called to live a life of strict poverty, we can and should make some sacrifices in our lives. Certainly, I fail to see how choosing simple, modest but humble attire is anything but respectful to God.
3. I agree with others here that “Sunday Best” can lead one to a sinful attitude regarding pride. Even in the fairly simple dress I wear to Mass, I have, in the past, had to force myself to not judge people who showed up dressed more casually than I… as far as I know they might be coming to mass from work, or felt the need to come to mass on short order.
4. I dress for mass like I dress most of the week; Jeans and a collared shirt, and casual shoes. Its who I am and putting on fancier clothes would ultimately be only putting on a show for others, not God. Remember, Jesus warned us to not make a great show of fasting; likewise, I think the same warning would apply to not making a great show of going to mass. Ultimately I believe God is far more concerned by how we clothe our souls than our bodies.
5. I absolutely would dress like I do every day to meet the President or the Queen. I might be required to dress up, but that is not me, that is the expectations of a society that is too caught up in appearance.

–
Bill

 

[davymax3]

Whoa, relativism.

For example, just because “Bob” was somehow raised incorrectly enough to think that wearing a T-shirt to Mass is respectful does not immediately mean that it IS proper and respectful to wear a T-shirt to Mass.

You’re absolutely right it’s relativism. Relativism is perfectly valid in many circumstances. Such as I like chocolate ice cream but you may like vanilla. OH MAN! Relativism! My point is that there is certainly no moral absolute about suit wearing. It could just as well be something else. The point being that social constructs such as suit-wearing are relative to one’s culture. There is nothing wrong with this. Just like languages or anything else.

I can challenge this “sign of respect” because it is not respectful. “Bob’s” choosing to wear a T-shirt to Mass won’t make his attire respectful any more than my standing in a garage will turn me into a car.

No, this is a terrible and false analogy. It being proper to wear a t-shirt to mass is not in the same ontological realm as weather you are standing in a garage making you into a car.

But we are not. The earthly formalities still apply to us.

Yes, to us! Precisely. Not to God. So, the reasoning for our clothes should be based upon respect for each other. Thus, we should not wear things that are distracting or immodest. Obviously, this can be taken too far, as it would be wrong to wear something unequivically anti-christian such as a pro-satan shirt or something. But whether someone wears a t-****, or a collared shirt or a tux is not relevant to the celebration of the Mass.

 

[Extempore]

You’re absolutely right it’s relativism. Relativism is perfectly valid in many circumstances. Such as I like chocolate ice cream but you may like vanilla.

Actually, that would be expressing a preference. Relativism is when you try to assert that what is right or appropriate is dependent entirely upon your personal preference.

In this case, saying that wearing a T-shirt to Mass is the right thing to do because it is my personal preference would be relativism. You are asserting that the right thing to do is entirely based on one’s own personal preference.

My point is that there is certainly no moral absolute about suit wearing. It could just as well be something else. The point being that social constructs such as suit-wearing are relative to one’s culture.

Your comment is a good illustration of cultural relativism (the belief that what is right is dependent upon cultural circumstances). This kind of belief is what breeds the comments about natives in Papua New Guinea. Showing up to Mass wearing a T-shirt because the American culture finds it acceptable is no more appropriate than showing up to Mass half-naked because the Papua New Guinea culture finds that acceptable.

Of course, you can see where I’m going with this which is to conclude that there is a actually a universal standard for what is proper in Mass that applies to all people which is:

1. Modesty, and
2. Grooming

Showing up in a T-shirt would violate (2) and not (1) while showing up half naked may not violate (2) but it would be an offense to (1).

No, this is a terrible and false analogy. It being proper to wear a t-shirt to mass is not in the same ontological realm as weather you are standing in a garage making you into a car.

I don’t care if they’re in the same “ontological realm” or not. Wanting a T-shirt to be the equivalent of “well-dressed” is not going to make it so, no matter how hard you wish. Some things cannot change simply because we wish them to.

Yes, to us! Precisely. Not to God. So, the reasoning for our clothes should be based upon respect for each other.

And respect for God. We should conform ourselves in a manner which is disposed towards recognizing the splendor and majesty of God in light of how tiny and insignificant we are.

Thus, we should not wear things that are distracting or immodest.

Agreed! But that’s not all. We should also appear well-groomed and dressed in a way which comports to the understanding that God is really and truly present in a tangible form at the Mass.

Obviously, this can be taken too far, as it would be wrong to wear something unequivically anti-christian such as a pro-satan shirt or something.

Uh, yeah, that would cross the line from simply being inappropriate to being sinful.

But whether someone wears a t-****, or a collared shirt or a tux is not relevant to the celebration of the Mass.

No, the Mass will go on either way. But this doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t take the responsibility to dress ourselves properly.

Note to the person who made the dry cleaning comment: Are you kidding? Really? Cheap suits and most collared shirts are washable, just don’t put them in the dryer on high heat.

I find your reason particularly amusing since T-Shirts and jeans need washing too. Not to mention those Nikes when they get too caked down with dirt.

 

[JohnTrueHeart]

Well Hi everyone… John, the new Catholic here… hope everyone had a wonderful Blessed Easter…

  Well so far the only thing I have found on appropriate dress is ...1 Timothy chapter 2: verses 9-15, dealing with women. But I do believe that there is some scripture dealing with us guys !!   :thumbsup:  I just can not see anyone showing up for Mass in a tee shirt, shorts, and flip flops.  A polo shirt, clean pants and sandals are ok , dressing like a BEER SLOB just coming in from a company soft ball game is ridiculous.  :eek:  Even Men should have some modesty and pride in their dress...I think my Dad says it has something to do with maturity.  Anyway.. that scripture is all I have found so far !!

 Everyone have a great week and remember that Sunday is DIVINE MERCY SUNDAY !!   God Bless all... !!

 

[JohnTrueHeart]

Why does this site allow arabs (terrorists) in it… i strongly disagree with this because catholicism is supposed to take place in a house of god. not in a straw hut.

Hey Rhaul… not all ARABS are Muslims, just as not all ARABS are terrorists… if you feel like that, then let’s say all IRISH belong to the IRA… don’t be a hateful moron . If you don’t like folks being able to voice their opinions, interjecting useful information so we can all learn more, in a mannerly way, no matter what their faith is… just delete this website and go back to the Supremist hangout you came from !!..

 

[LilyM]

I don’t think that there is a logical connection between the example of St. Francis and your apparent suggestion that he would have disapproved of dressing decently for Mass.

Disapproved of dressing decently for Mass? No - as long as pride in one’s dress (or spiritual pride in supposedly being better prepared for Mass than your worse-dressed neighbours) isn’t an issue. Disapproved of those who thought decent dress means formal dress? Absolutely.

Being well-groomed at Mass has absolutely nothing to do with material poverty or economic circumstance. It is something attainable by rich and poor alike, and something which - if I may be so bold as to speculate - I might guess St. Francis would have agreed with.

Being well-groomed was also attainable by St Francis. It was well within his power to bathe before meeting the Pope. Instead he did the opposite, jumped in a pigsty. Deliberately made himself as physically BADLY groomed as he could.

Why? To show that for SOME - too many - an interest in appearance is indicative of the deadly sin of pride, in one form or another. And that a deliberate neglect of appearance can just as often be a virtuous act, a corrective to that same pride.

Think of Jesus’s admonitions regarding fasting. He tells us to groom ourselves, to not have the appearance of slovenliness in order to have it appear that we are fasting. I think that dressing sloppily and poorly to get attention can be just as much of a pride issue as dressing expensively to gain attention.

Rubbish. He wasn’t specifically telling people to groom themselves well, simply not to make a SHOW of fasting by externals. Not specifically clothing, but other things as well. He mentions long faces. Other things might be grumbling about how little you’re eating or making a huge fuss about not being able to eat meat and so on. If you think the verse is about clothing or grooming you’re missing the point entirely.

Yes, I take your point about ‘dressing poorly to get attention’. It is possible, I guess.

However, I’d venture to say that it would be a very odd and ineffective way in the extreme to get attention, if this was your aim. When I dress casually I get ignored, not commented upon positively or negatively … which lack of attention leads to the virtue of humility, in my experience.

Whereas when I dress well I almost invariably get compliments … which lead to (you guessed it) the sin of pride.

 

[aball1035]

Disapproved of dressing decently for Mass? No - as long as pride in one’s dress (or spiritual pride in supposedly being better prepared for Mass than your worse-dressed neighbours) isn’t an issue. Disapproved of those who thought decent dress means formal dress? Absolutely.

Being well-groomed was also attainable by St Francis. It was well within his power to bathe before meeting the Pope. Instead he did the opposite, jumped in a pigsty. Deliberately made himself as physically BADLY groomed as he could.

Why? To show that for SOME - too many - an interest in appearance is indicative of the deadly sin of pride, in one form or another. And that a deliberate neglect of appearance can just as often be a virtuous act, a corrective to that same pride.

Rubbish. He wasn’t specifically telling people to groom themselves well, simply not to make a SHOW of fasting by externals. Not specifically clothing, but other things as well. He mentions long faces. Other things might be grumbling about how little you’re eating or making a huge fuss about not being able to eat meat and so on. If you think the verse is about clothing or grooming you’re missing the point entirely.

Yes, I take your point about ‘dressing poorly to get attention’. It is possible, I guess.

However, I’d venture to say that it would be a very odd and ineffective way in the extreme to get attention, if this was your aim. When I dress casually I get ignored, not commented upon positively or negatively … which lack of attention leads to the virtue of humility, in my experience.

Whereas when I dress well I almost invariably get compliments … which lead to (you guessed it) the sin of pride.

I agree with you on not dressing to impress because of pride. However, I also believe that those people who go in jeans, a T-shirt and flipflops, or the “don’t judge me” people, need to have more respect for God, and it shows in how they dress. Catholics need to be moderate. No T and jeans, and no bowtie and pride or what have you. CAtholics need to dress simply, but show respect

 

[LilyM]

I agree with you on not dressing to impress because of pride. However, I also believe that those people who go in jeans, a T-shirt and flipflops, or the “don’t judge me” people, need to have more respect for God, and it shows in how they dress. Catholics need to be moderate. No T and jeans, and no bowtie and pride or what have you. CAtholics need to dress simply, but show respect

So St Francis was lacking in respect for God by deliberately dressing shabbily as he did?

 

[davymax3]

The St. Francis example is a bit out of place. He did that to make a point to humans. I don’t think anyone should dress in a particular way in order to rouse a response from those at church, no matter if it’s a tuxedo or going after you jumped in a pigsty.

I think that the goal should be somewhere in the middle. It should be something relatively clean and modest. These are standards we can almost all agree on. The problem is that some have a problem with say, a white t-shirt. Why? Because they don’t think that a person wearing that is showing the correct respect. I can certainly see where they are coming from. I think it would be wrong to wear something that simple in a case where everyone was wearing something nicer, as is normally the case at the tridentine mass or in certain churches. However, the mass I go to regularly, almost every wears whatever they happened to be wearing when they were ready to go to mass ( I think this is a result of it being the 5PM mass so everyone has been out and about for the day). So, I feel wrong getting all dressed up for church since no one else is and I would stand out. I don’t think that clothing for church should stand out and cause attention? Can we agree on this?

 

[mchale]

I agree with you on not dressing to impress because of pride. However, I also believe that those people who go in jeans, a T-shirt and flipflops, or the “don’t judge me” people, need to have more respect for God, and it shows in how they dress. Catholics need to be moderate. No T and jeans, and no bowtie and pride or what have you. CAtholics need to dress simply, but show respect

I think we need to remember that we show respect by all of our actions. Our standards of dress are that exactly, our standards. We show respect to others by meeting their standards. We dress up for weddings and funerals as a visible sign of respect for the bride and groom or the departed (as the case may be), but we show respect for God by living up to his standards. By all means we should be careful about the message we send by what we wear (i.e., t-shirts with inappropriate content, immodest clothing, etc. should be avoided), but as long as clothing is modest I think that should be sufficient for anyone.

–
Bill

 

[SenorSalsa]

As it happens was NOT a clergyman at all. He was never ordained, considering himself too humble for the honour. Therefore in liturgical terms a layperson just like you and me, and certainly never officiated in persona Christ at a Mass in his life.

Nothing inconsistent about my comment at all. See, it helps not to make assumptions of that kind

Not to mention he advised poverty also for the many Secular (lay) Franciscans who have since followed his rule.

Not to nitpick, but Francis was ordained, as a Deacon. That is why he is always depicted tonsured(which was given when ordained). It was the only way he was allowed to go around preaching, as laypeople could not.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

In recent years I have come to realize that the way you dress absolutely does effect the way you think and act.

Slovenly dress leads to slovenly behavior and slovenly treatment. If you suffer from a lack of respect, it might be the way you present yourself to the world.

If your ‘nice’ clothes are uncomfortable get more comfortable ones. Or see it as an excellent ‘tailor-made’ opportunity to ‘offer it up.’ It’s only once a week. Humble yourself before God and your community.

 

[davymax3]

In recent years I have come to realize that the way you dress absolutely does effect the way you think and act.
.

yes, no one is denying this. But it’s arrogant to assume that the way clothing AFFECTS the way you think and act is the only possibility.

Maybe someone who wears a suit will become less respectful for Christ, whether it be comfortable or not. No one said you should try and be slovenly, but who are you to say, that someone who were to go slovenly could be thinking and acting better than they would in a suit?

 

[mchale]

In recent years I have come to realize that the way you dress absolutely does effect the way you think and act.

Slovenly dress leads to slovenly behavior and slovenly treatment. If you suffer from a lack of respect, it might be the way you present yourself to the world.

If your ‘nice’ clothes are uncomfortable get more comfortable ones. Or see it as an excellent ‘tailor-made’ opportunity to ‘offer it up.’ It’s only once a week. Humble yourself before God and your community.

So you are suggesting that dressing up is making yourself humble? Kind of Ironic . Actually, I think advice like this has to be taken on a case by case basis. From experience, it seems far too many people are all too ready to look down on those who don’t dress up to their standards. That is not humility, but the opposite.

Also, Christians should never dress to seek respect from the world! I can understand (even if I don’t agree with) those who argue that dressing up is needed to be respectful to God, but if you are dressing up so that others in the pews will respect you, I think you need to reconsider why you are wearing what you are wearing.

–
Bill

 

[LilyM]

In recent years I have come to realize that the way you dress absolutely does effect the way you think and act.

Slovenly dress leads to slovenly behavior and slovenly treatment. If you suffer from a lack of respect, it might be the way you present yourself to the world.

If your ‘nice’ clothes are uncomfortable get more comfortable ones. Or see it as an excellent ‘tailor-made’ opportunity to ‘offer it up.’ It’s only once a week. Humble yourself before God and your community.

Agreed as well. The mistake is to assume that a certain type of dress affects all people in the same way.

 

[LilyM]

Not to nitpick, but Francis was ordained, as a Deacon. That is why he is always depicted tonsured(which was given when ordained). It was the only way he was allowed to go around preaching, as laypeople could not.

My point was about priests in any event - since they, who confect the Eucharist in persona Christi, have requirements as to vesture that even deacons do not have, reflecting their different roles in the liturgy.

Laity, technically, really have no role in the liturgy - they don’t even need to be present for a valid Mass to occur.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I agree with you on not dressing to impress because of pride. However, I also believe that those people who go in jeans, a T-shirt and flipflops, or the “don’t judge me” people, need to have more respect for God, and it shows in how they dress. Catholics need to be moderate. No T and jeans, and no bowtie and pride or what have you. CAtholics need to dress simply, but show respect

Absolutely.

We also need to distinguish between healthy and unhealthy pride, as Fadda Corapi says. There’s nothing wrong in feeling happy because someone paid you a compliment on your dress or demeanor.

On the other hand, for decades, the media has been pushing slovenliness: slackness in morals, slackness in dress.

Moms who wear outfits just like their teenage daughters wonder why they get no just respect; Dads who come to church looking like they just shoveled out a barn wonder the same thing.

 

[William722]

I strongly feel that dressing appropriately is very important for at least being reverent. Not to mention the distraction that can be caused by being poorly or improperly dressed. I agree with a previous writer that if a person were to be invited to the White House, you certainly would want to dress well, so why not for when entering the house of the King of Kings. While I am quite overweight, I do not have a nice suit of clothes, but I do at least wear a dress shirt and dress or casual (Khaki) trousers that are pressed, along with clean and polished shoes. When I can, I will wear a sport coat and tie. I don’t know that there are any fast rules, and this is my preference, but we should model appropriate dress for our children. This helps show that we mean what we say about being respectful of our Lord.

 

[mchale]

Absolutely.

We also need to distinguish between healthy and unhealthy pride, as Fadda Corapi says. There’s nothing wrong in feeling happy because someone paid you a compliment on your dress or demeanor.

It may not be bad to feel pleased at a compliment, but it is bad if you are dressing or acting in a particular way in order to get the compliment.

I agree that how we dress can send a message, but we need to be very careful about the message we want to send. Are we dressing up because we want to respect God, or are we dressing up because we want others to respect us for being respectful?

On the other hand, for decades, the media has been pushing slovenliness: slackness in morals, slackness in dress.

Moms who wear outfits just like their teenage daughters wonder why they get no just respect; Dads who come to church looking like they just shoveled out a barn wonder the same thing.

Lets be careful about making unproven associations. While certainly some dress standards can be linked to the the modern slackness in morals, I don’t think it is fair to broaden it to all current standards of dress. Many dresses and suits can be far more immodest than jeans and a decent shirt. In other words, it is easy to see why a woman might be judged to have lax morals if she is wearing a cocktail dress that is very short; it is not so easy to see the same thing if she is wearing loose fitting seat clothes. The latter might be slovenly, but it is probably more appropriate in church that the former.

I believe in trying to be neatly dressed for Church, but I also do my best to dress like who I am. I am a jeans kind of guy. I have worn a pair of jeans pretty much every day for the last 20 years and will probably continue to do so for the next 20. I wear neat jeans to Church, because that is who I am.

–
Bill