Proper etiquette for hosts regarding guests who can't live without 'the game'

[pnewton]

If there is anything in your life you cannot give up for a day, not only without complaint but without letting on that you’re doing without at all, your charity is greatly hobbled.

Great point. Just give up parties like this and there is not problem.

I have another idea. Just have a football available and tell the true sports fans to go outside and toss it around while you eat cake.

 

[EasterJoy]

Great point. Just give up parties like this and there is not problem.

I have another idea. Just have a football available and tell the true sports fans to go outside and toss it around while you eat cake.

Don’t get me wrong. If I’m at a party and there’s a game on, I’m all over it. I love football, I love baseball, I don’t even have to know who is playing. I find watching sports with other people to be a social activity. If the World Series had been on during our wedding reception, I’d have made a TV available. If I thought for a moment that my host or hostess didn’t approve, though, I’d feel duty-bound to keep myself away. This has happened to me on Thanksgiving…it is mildly uncomfortable to know you’re missing a game you’d like to see, but you live. It falls in the category of “people before stuff.” Excepting sports or other performance in which a relative is participating, entertainment is “stuff.” You don’t offend an aunt or an old friend over it.

Yes, it is better to schedule parties for times that don’t fall during game time if you don’t like games, but a) baptisms are scheduled by the parish, not the parents and b) you have to have sports fans who throw you a bone, because sports cover approximately 10-12 hours on each Saturday and Sunday from September through December. It is not practical to hold baptism parties between 6 and 9 am! As for Thanksgiving, you have it when it is good for the babies and the old folks, and scheduling around the game comes after that. I like the game, too, but…sorry!

The football…well, that depends. That can be a very nice compromise that makes everyone happy. If you’re coming straight from church to the party, though, you have to poll the moms on whether the Sunday clothes and backyard sports are going to mix. There is more than one way to make enemies around relatives and their sports! But otherwise, yes, a lot of people who are offended by the sharing of a game on TV are totally OK with the game in the back yard, even though (ironically enough) those with a strong opinion for one and against the other usually aren’t participating in either one. (Go figure…but I’ve seen it over and over. )

 

[pnewton]

I guess I do not understand the baptism party. I know cultures are different, but we just have a baptism. We are facing first communion this year, and I was not planning on doing anything, but going to Mass.* If* we have family down, I do not think this will change. Are parties for Sactraments common?

 

[coachdennis]

I guess I do not understand the baptism party. I know cultures are different, but we just have a baptism. We are facing first communion this year, and I was not planning on doing anything, but going to Mass.* If* we have family down, I do not think this will change. Are parties for Sactraments common?

It does depends on the culture. I can only speak for my particular upbringing. Having been raised in a catholic “ghetto” of the 1950s and 1960s it was not uncommon at first communion time to have half a dozen children on your block celebrating first communion on the same day. The year I received my first communion myself and two cousins received the sacrament on the same day at the same parish at the same day. If that’s not a reason to celebrate, I don’t know what is!

Now, I can already hear people saying that a party distracts from the solemnity of the occasion! Yada, yada, yada! Yes, people who plan parties can get carried away. But if you really feel that way, my feeling is, stay home! You’ll do yourself and everyone else at the celebration “a favor” by staying away.

I would like to offer another point of view. Catholicism is the religion of celebration and moderation. WE do not ban dancing, drinking, eating, and laughing if done in moderation. These are times to celebrate the blessings of an individual receiving a sacrament and human beings celebrate with the gifts and fruits God gives us!

Now, I have in-laws in the Midwest who for them a baptism party is cake and tea/coffee. That’s fine, but we warn them (jokingly), if you are here back East we will celebrate.

We pray, we party, we rock, we celebrate, we believe!! None of those necessarily negate the others!

 

[Sarabande]

I guess I do not understand the baptism party. I know cultures are different, but we just have a baptism. We are facing first communion this year, and I was not planning on doing anything, but going to Mass.* If* we have family down, I do not think this will change. Are parties for Sactraments common?

In my neck of the woods it’s very common. It’s a highly-concentrated Catholic area, actually one of the largest Catholic populations in the States. (Funnily enough I didn’t really know much about anti-Catholic sentiments growing up. Almost everyone I knew was Catholic… if not practicing… at least culturally. Today, that is a different story in regards to anti-Catholicism over the past 10 years. Although Catholic parishes are huge and growing in the suburbs. Where I grew up, my family parish has been split twice into three different parishes because the population has grown so much and our church couldn’t provide enough masses or space.)

I think because of the large Catholic population and also the given ethnicities of the Catholics in my area, it has become a cultural practice to celebrate. It wasn’t/isn’t unusual to see multiple backyard parties taking place for communions or confirmations. In fact, it would be considered strange if you didn’t have a party, like you didn’t really care about the importance of the sacrament and didn’t want anyone else to share in the communal aspect of the sacrament. I don’t think like that, as most people of my generation, but the older generations do. That said, it is ingrained in us that you must have a celebration afterwards. It’s just unusual to not party it up. We had my son baptised this past summer and we had about 50 people at the party held in the back yard of my parents’ home. Between 30-50 people is the norm.

I recently was at a Baptismal party held at a hall with at least 150 guests, mostly family. I was actually hired to perform sacred songs and operatic arias throughout the party. They wanted the religious music treated as a prayer for the children who were baptised. Admittedly, that was a first for me. Most baptismal parties are not like wedding receptions. I’m not sure if the huge party atmosphere is cultural because the families were from Africa and I’m not familiar with the various cultural practices, but I was really touched by the religious fervor many, if not most, of the people there had for their faith. The godparents gave speeches and you could see how seriously they viewed the special honour of helping to raise the children in the Catholic faith. I mean, it wasn’t just a cultural thing for them… it was serious and I loved it. Not that you need to have a huge or extravagant party to show your fervor and love of your faith, but that was pretty overwhelming for me… who was just a hired person and didn’t know them.

But, yeah, as you can see, parties are common here.

 

[Sarabande]

I would like to offer another point of view. Catholicism is the religion of celebration and moderation. WE do not ban dancing, drinking, eating, and laughing if done in moderation. These are times to celebrate the blessings of an individual receiving a sacrament and human beings celebrate with the gifts and fruits God gives us!
**
Now, I have in-laws in the Midwest who for them a baptism party is cake and tea/coffee. That’s fine, but we warn them (jokingly), if you are here back East we will celebrate.**

We pray, we party, we rock, we celebrate, we believe!! None of those necessarily negate the others!

So funny. Yes, that is what it is like for us as well. We East Coasters seem to like to party hardy for these things. haha! My in-laws are from the East coast, but they’ve lived all over and didn’t really have a chance to be around a lot of family and friends to have that party atmosphere. My husband, therefore, is still overwhelmed sometimes by the multiple, large parties we have here. (Heck, as an introvert, I’m overwhelmed by it and my whole life has been surrounded by it.) Celebrations on his side are different. You might have only 10 people at a sacramental celebration and it is much more low key… which is completely fine. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but I know when my inlaws are here celebrating with my family it is a bit overwhelming for them.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

In my circle, we celebrate with family and our closest friends (which includes the Godparents). For us that means 3-4 families who are not related, 4 grandparents, and a couple of siblings and their families. That could end up being almost 50 people, although most of our baptism parties are under 40, the majority of which are children (all 4 of the families we’ve invited have 5 children + our kids + their cousins). The parties are at our houses, and generally include a meal, cake, and presents for the baby. I’d be happier not to have the party at all (considering how much it takes out of me at that stage in post-partum), but too many people would be offended, so we do it. It is appropriate, after all, to have some level of hospitality for people who are travelling/sacrificing to witness your child’s sacrament. What that looks like might be different for each family.

 

[EasterJoy]

I will also say this - I don’t throw baptism parties so the guests can have a ton of fun. I throw baptism parties because it is polite to host people for a short while after they make the effort to come to your baptism. I expect that they will come to my house, we’ll all chat a while (people seem to enjoy the chatting), they’ll have a meal and some cake, and then they go home. Not the most fun day in the world. But a pleasant time with family after supporting us in our child’s sacrament. I don’t think we’ve ever had alcohol at a baptism party. So there you have it - I guess we might be considered the most boring baptismal hosts ever - no beer, no coffee (at least that one time), no sports.

We do have gatherings/parties that are more fun, and that do include things like beer and grilling. Usually the sports are live rather than televised - swimming, badminton, etc… Not at the baptism though. Those are calmer affairs.

Pleasant, but heaven forbid not really enjoyable, let alone…fun! I don’t think that came out the way you meant it!

Did you not mean that baptism receptions are neither late enough in the day, long enough in duration, or the kind of celebration such that alcohol is called for as part of the pleasantries? The events are too early, too quiet, and too short to call for anything but some quick chatting over a light lunch and a chance to thank everyone for coming. Fun, yes, but not a reason to really “let the hair down and take the bridle off”, so to speak.

 

[EasterJoy]

So funny. Yes, that is what it is like for us as well. We East Coasters seem to like to party hardy for these things. haha! My in-laws are from the East coast, but they’ve lived all over and didn’t really have a chance to be around a lot of family and friends to have that party atmosphere. My husband, therefore, is still overwhelmed sometimes by the multiple, large parties we have here. (Heck, as an introvert, I’m overwhelmed by it and my whole life has been surrounded by it.) Celebrations on his side are different. You might have only 10 people at a sacramental celebration and it is much more low key… which is completely fine. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but I know when my inlaws are here celebrating with my family it is a bit overwhelming for them.

My sense is that many parishes on the West Coast grew up at a time when getting together at the parish required a good deal of travel, sort of like medieval folks getting to the cathedral for feast days. If you take all that trouble to get to church, you want it to be worth the trip! That, and the East Coasters were surrounded by Puritans, who thought the idea of having feast days at all–let alone alcohol!! –was straight from Old Scratch.

 

[Sarabande]

My sense is that many parishes on the West Coast grew up at a time when getting together at the parish required a good deal of travel, sort of like medieval folks getting to the cathedral for feast days. If you take all that trouble to get to church, you want it to be worth the trip! That, and the East Coasters were surrounded by Puritans, who thought the idea of having feast days at all–let alone alcohol!! –was straight from Old Scratch.

Until the Irish and Italian Catholics came, because, now on the East Coast (at least where I am) they like to party.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

Pleasant, but heaven forbid not really enjoyable, let alone…fun! I don’t think that came out the way you meant it!

Did you not mean that baptism receptions are neither late enough in the day, long enough in duration, or the kind of celebration such that alcohol is called for as part of the pleasantries? The events are too early, too quiet, and too short to call for anything but some quick chatting over a light lunch and a chance to thank everyone for coming. Fun, yes, but not a reason to really “let the hair down and take the bridle off”, so to speak.

It’s more just that people are accustomed to a certain type of socializing after baptisms. Late lunch + Cake + conversation. Meeting the new baby, and giving some modest gifts. I am responding to the comments of “people figure out that we’re fun people.” Well, our fun-ness is not determined by our baptism parties. That’s just not what they’re for. And the variation in people affects it too. My sister in law and her family (who are a strong contingent at our baptism parties) would probably define “the most fun you could have” as heavy duty partying, a lot of drinking, a wine tour, etc… they are more classic “partiers.” Our closest friends would probably define “the most fun you could have” of sitting around the table with each other, sipping tea or wine or beer, and just talking about the things we care about the most and laughing a lot. Not as classically “fun,” but it’s what makes us the happiest at the end of the day. We can’t put those two groups together and have either one come out of it saying the event was amazing, or super fun. Each group, with different values and opinions about the world has to hold back a little too much to not offend the other group. So we have a nice time. And these groups generally enjoy talking to each other, catching up on the kids, shooting the breeze. It’s just not “rockin’ fun.” Not every gathering has to be a blast.

 

[MarkInOregon]

OK ‘coach’ from Boston…I see this is a hot button for you as well.

Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut. I enjoy learning little bits about how the minds of others work. Gives me more to talk about with the adults in the kitchen.

See this is whats wrong – you are condescending toward sports-- as if sports are not adult subject matter. Just what do you talk about in the kitchen with all these “grown-ups”? Are you solving the worlds problems? My family – most of whom do not have an interest in sports – talk about nothing I would consider important–certainly not anymore important than sports–just different. In my experience most adults talk about nothing I would consider important or necessarily adult. At this baptism celebration are you discussing the theology of baptism and baptisms effects on your child and what you hope it does for them? Or is it family chit chat?

Personally, as a host, I want people to enjoy themselves at my house. If I have asked them to come for a family celebration–I’ve provided food and drink and depending on the celebration they may have brought a gift. I asked them to take time to come to my house to help me celebrate. I expect them to take time to sing happy birthday, watch the candles be blown out and gifts opened but I don’t begrudge them keeping an eye on the game and I am not sure why I should. I fail to see why standing around watching the game and talking is any different than standing around in the kitchen talking. The thing is to be together.

I think we all overthink things and are too easily offended. I’d be much more upset by relatives who couldn’t be bothered to take the time out of their “busy” schedules to come to family events–and I have a lot of experience with that–as it is hard to explain to children why one side of the family is hit and miss at family gatherings, but it is what it is. For my money I’d rather have them around and the game on if need be.

Peace,
Mark

 

[MarkInOregon]

Last Tuesday (Oct. 16, 2012), I drove my 83-year-old father to the hospital, and sat with him while the doctor told him that he has terminal cancer.

We discussed all the options, including a course of chemotherapy that will give him 2-3 years. He seemed quite accepting. He’s an intelligent man, and like all of us, knows that life does not last forever. But no one wants to be given a death sentence.

He has not called me “honey” in years, decades.

I didn’t sleep that night, and I still haven’t cried. I think once I start crying, I won’t stop for many hours, and to be honest, I don’t have the time for that much crying.

So my perspective is–you don’t get that much time to spend with your family and friends, so enjoy the time that you DO get and…accept them for who and what they are.

There is no use trying to make them behave according to your tastes/ So ENJOY THEM, especially the ones that have to drive for several hours to see you, while they are with you, and accept and love and appreciate them for who they are. Be grateful that at your house, they feel comfortable to be themselves.

They’ll be gone soon enough, much sooner than you ever thought possible. You will turn around to go to the kitchen to get another plate of appetizers, and when you return, there will be empty spaces and those dear ones will be gone from this earth and you will regret with all your heart your resentment and inner criticism of their personality quirks.

You will remember your post on CAF and think, “Why did I write that? What was I thinking, anyway? I’d give anything right now to have good ol’ Cousin NFL Superfan back again sitting in my family room watching the game!”

Yes, OP, it comes through loud and clear in every post that you have written–you look down at people who love sports. What is the use of that? There is no “sin” in enjoying sports. So why condemn something that you clearly “don’t get?” Why not just accept that many people do enjoy sports? Why not just get a kick out of it and have fun watching them have fun? Why be so negative?

Not everyone enjoys long, lovely conversations with relatives and friends, especially in large groups. My husband used to hate doing get-togethers with my family because of all the talk talk talk and it seemed to him that no one stopped to listen (he was wrong).

Conversations that involve everyone at the party only work if you have a huge house with a very large “gathering space” that is conducive (good acoustics, not too “live”) to everyone joining in the conversation. A lot of times, the older people (or even younger people) can’t hear well when there is a large group.

And some people just don’t like talking about anything very “deep” in a room full of near strangers, even if they are family.

When it comes to a baptism of a baby, honestly, how much talking about it can people do? Once you get past, “Wasn’t the baby cute when they cried while the water was pouring onto them?” and “Wasn’t the christening gown beautiful? Good ol’ Aunt Persimmon stitched it all by hand, bless her heart!” --there really isn’t a whole lot more to talk about unless you want to get into a theological discussion about the significance of baptism–and to be honest, I think that would be more volatile than talking about the election, especially if you have relatives and friends who are not Catholic.

I think that when you do an “open-house” type get-together, you have to expect and plan for people breaking off into several smaller groups. That’s the way open-houses are, and to me, that’s part of the fun! I would really feel uncomfortable at an Open House where everyone was expected to just sat in a circle and look at each other and carry on a conversation with everyone else.

That’s the kind of thing that women do at Bridal and Baby showers, and maybe it’s fun for women. (I’m a woman and I don’t mind it.) But I think a lot of men feel very very uncomfortable in such a setting. (Most men don’t have Groomal Showers.) And teenagers and children would be horribly uncomfortable.

So I think you should just let the groups happen and enjoy them! As the hostess, circulate from room to room and group to group and make sure that everyone is having a great time.

I like your idea of the 'sports bar" in your family room–that’s the idea! Go for it!

If you’ve ever watched National Lampoon’s Christmas Vacation, you’ll remember a scene where Clark is trying to convince his wife that having the whole family stay with them for Christmas will be fun. She says something like “Sparky, you build it up in your mind and then you’re so disappointed when it doesn’t turn out the way you expect.”

Perhaps you’re doing this. I would suggest not doing it. If you have a specific “plan” for your party–e.g., a “conversation circle”–then you should invite the people that you know will enjoy this activity.

My husband and I often have figure skating parties. We invite our friends over to watch figure skating for hours at a stretch. We don’t invite people who don’t like figure skating. Why would we do that?

But if you’re doing an open-house type party, then it’s really hard to say, “This is what will happen at my party,” because open-houses are “open.”

If you want to try a family get-together without a TV, fine–let people know in the invitation, and no doubt, some people will decline your invitation, while others will tape the game, or just read about it the next day. But why do that? Why exclude family and friends just because they don’t think or act like you?

What’s more important–the party, or the people at the party?

Family get-togethers are so much much fun, so precious, and they go so fast.
Before you know it, all those crazy relatives and friends are dead and gone. Please don’t fuss about them. Don’t judge them. Just enjoy them. Please.

 

[MarkInOregon]

It is amazing to me that this has turned into such a big thing. A family had a party (sorry OP, if I called you a “she” - my dh doesn’t like the game on at parties either) to celebrate a baptism. The family had a plan for the party, which didn’t include watching the game. The guests revolted/whined/demanded and the hosts of the party were forced to give up their plan for their party for their child’s baptism at their house, and let their house get taken over by an completely different activity.

Did we read the same OP? I thought she just said that there was some complaining? I missed the revolt and demanded part and the having their house cmpletely taken over part.

Peace,
Mark

 

[TheRealJuliane]

See this is whats wrong – you are condescending toward sports-- as if sports are not adult subject matter. Just what do you talk about in the kitchen with all these “grown-ups”? Are you solving the worlds problems? My family – most of whom do not have an interest in sports – talk about nothing I would consider important–certainly not anymore important than sports–just different. In my experience most adults talk about nothing I would consider important or necessarily adult. At this baptism celebration are you discussing the theology of baptism and baptisms effects on your child and what you hope it does for them? Or is it family chit chat?

Personally, as a host, I want people to enjoy themselves at my house. If I have asked them to come for a family celebration–I’ve provided food and drink and depending on the celebration they may have brought a gift. I asked them to take time to come to my house to help me celebrate. I expect them to take time to sing happy birthday, watch the candles be blown out and gifts opened but I don’t begrudge them keeping an eye on the game and I am not sure why I should. I fail to see why standing around watching the game and talking is any different than standing around in the kitchen talking. The thing is to be together.

I think we all overthink things and are too easily offended. I’d be much more upset by relatives who couldn’t be bothered to take the time out of their “busy” schedules to come to family events–and I have a lot of experience with that–as it is hard to explain to children why one side of the family is hit and miss at family gatherings, but it is what it is. For my money I’d rather have them around and the game on if need be.

Peace,
Mark

This. Are parties just for sitting around looking at each other (or the baby, in this case, who may already be asleep in his/her bed) and making small talk? Or can people mill around, possibly watching the game and talking (a lot of games are slow, like baseball) in between? I really do not for the life of me see why talking in the kitchen is any different from talking with the game on. Oh, sure, you have to watch the plays, but in between there is still conversation. People come out to get more food and drink, and can be involved in whatever else is going on around the house.

Maybe the problem is that the party is too long? Maybe you should just have everyone over for an hour after the Mass and then say hasta la vista? Or maybe just have cake and coffee in the Parish hall and not worry about it? Or, have everyone over as a family, put the TV on and let the rest of the family gather wherever.

I do not see what the problem is, frankly.

 

[Kelfa28]

There is a third option between watching the baby sleep and making small talk. They had this thing in the earlier half of the 20th century. It was conversation. You only have small talk with people you don’t know. You wont get to know people by watching TV together.

I just had dinner with my mother’s aunts, her cousin, and her aunt’s 96 year old friend. We all had a ball conversing and debating about struggles and issues we all face both personal and political, and where the world is going, and what used to be. I learned a lot.

Im a 29 year old Army vet and I have no idea what a line of skrimage is, but I was glad that people were happy when the Red Sox won the superbowl.

 

[Cat]

I thought many of you might be interested to know that this same question (slightly different variation) is featured in this month’s Good Housekeeping “Ask Peggy” column (written by Peggy Post, a director of the Emily Post Institute).

Now I realize that some of you could care less what Emily Post and her cronies say. But the columnist has the advantage over many of us because she has researched “etiquette” for years, and also in her position as a magazine columnist, she has the privilege of knowing a lot about many different aspects of U.S. popular culture. In other words, she’s an expert, and we’re not.

Here is the question in Good Housekeeping: During Thanksgiving dinner, your father-in-law insists on watching football. You feel this detracts from family quality time. Do you shut the TV off?

Peggy says: As hostess, your role is to make everyone feel comfortable. For your father-in-law, comfort means watching the game. Strike a compromise–shut the set off during dinner, but let him (and others) watch beforehand and afterward. Or, plan to serve the meal during the halftime. It’s up to you to find the right balance for all your guests.

_______________________-
Here’s what Cat says, for anyone who is interested. I think a lot of the problem lies in the use of the word “entertaining.” This implies a “show that is put on for an audience.” The focus is on the entertainer–what kind of “show” will they perform, and do they have any talent and is their show “good?” Definitely stressful for the entertainer (host/hostess)!

Instead, I think we need to use the term “extending hospitality.” This implies inviting guests into your home space and making them feel welcome and comfortable. The focus is on the GUESTS, not the host/hostess.

The host/hostess do not have to compromise their moral or religious standards to make a guest feel comfortable, but OTOH, they should make reasonable accomodations for their invited guests.

I think an example of “reasonable accomodations” is to set up an area where the big game can be viewed by those who are interested, and even more important, not acting the martyr or making it obvious that you are doing them a huge big fat favor by accomodating their silly addiction.

Our kindnesses toward our guests should be done quietly and generously, without letting the guests know that yes, it is a lot of trouble. Rather, the guests should be made to feel that you are honored to make them feel welcome and “right at home.”

I can certainly go along with Peggy’s advice to “compromise,” e.g., leaving the game off during the meal, but turning it on after the meal. This works really well with TiVo because you can go back and watch the game and fast forward through the commercials until you are caught up and back in “real time.”

 

[TheRealJuliane]

There is a third option between watching the baby sleep and making small talk. They had this thing in the earlier half of the 20th century. It was conversation. You only have small talk with people you don’t know. You wont get to know people by watching TV together.

I just had dinner with my mother’s aunts, her cousin, and her aunt’s 96 year old friend. We all had a ball conversing and debating about struggles and issues we all face both personal and political, and where the world is going, and what used to be. I learned a lot.

Im a 29 year old Army vet and I have no idea what a line of skrimage is, but I was glad that people were happy when the Red Sox won the superbowl.

I know you don’t meant to be snarky, but your response reminded me of a sarcastic remark that the President made during the debate the other night. It rubbed me the wrong way then, and it rubs me the wrong way now.

“They had this thing in the earlier half of the 20th century”

Yes, and we still have it. And some families do make small talk, especially at a party like this.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

If my mom showed up to my Superbowl party with her Terms of Endearment DVD and insisted on watching it on the one TV in the house, would she be out of line?

 

[Sarabande]

If my mom showed up to my Superbowl party with her Terms of Endearment DVD and insisted on watching it on the one TV in the house, would she be out of line?

I don’t know if I would call it being “out of line” unless she was being violently insistent and going crazy. I might call the loony bin or the doctor to check her out. If she just really wanted to see the movie and wasn’t annoying or violent about it, it would be obvious that she doesn’t care about the Superbowl, but wanted to be where the family is, if only to just be around them. If it were my mother, I’d jokingly take a poll, asking who would like to watch Terms of Endearment and who would like to watch the Superbowl and whatever side had the most hands (more than likely the Superbowl people) we would watch it on the TV. Then I’d set the DVD up on my laptop or desktop and let her watch her movie either in the room with us or somewhere else in the house. I might also pop back and forth to see parts of it with her and to see how she was doing. It wouldn’t bother me, but would strike me as kind of humorous.