Proper use of the term Novus Ordo

[Thomas_Casey]

The term Novus Ordo was originally used to refer to the new order of the mass when it was revised.

Please refrain from using this term to describe church buildings, clergy, religious or anything other than the order of the Ordinary Form of the mass. E.I. “Novus Ordo church” or Novus Ordo priest.

We have noticed that some people are using the term in a very pejorative manner to refer to anything that is not traditionalist.

Thank You for your kindness.

 

[MartyrForJesus]

I cringe when someone uses those terms, makes me think of sedevacantists!

 

[philial]

My cringe moment is when someone refers to ‘the new mass’! How dare they? The Mass, at its core is unchanging, yet always new.

As for the outer form, the oder of celebration, I’m hopeful that none prize that above the Mass itself!

 

[Filii_Dei]

To a lesser extent, the same goes for those who refer to the 1962 (and earlier) Missals as the ‘old mass’ or Tridentine. In fact, can we just refer to them as OF and EF? None of the pejorative terms. For the sake of all our sanity.

 

[Big_Feet]

My cringe moment is when someone refers to ‘the new mass’! How dare they? The Mass, at its core is unchanging, yet always new.

As for the outer form, the oder of celebration, I’m hopeful that none prize that above the Mass itself!

 

[3Sanctus]

My cringe moment is when someone refers to ‘the new mass’! How dare they? The Mass, at its core is unchanging, yet always new.

As for the outer form, the oder of celebration, I’m hopeful that none prize that above the Mass itself!

The Mass itself is just an order of celebration, an outer form - the Mass is just the Roman liturgy. The core of what happens is common amongst all the rites of the Church. In this way, the Forma Ordinaria and Forma Extraordinaria are no less outer expressions of the sacrifice and its re-presentation than all the liturgies within the Church.

That said, there is value in all of the liturgies of the Church, though each has its pluses and minuses and things it reinforces more strongly and less and things it focuses on more and less. For example, the Eastern rites of the Church tend to focus more on the resurrection of Our Lord than on the Crucifiction.

To a lesser extent, the same goes for those who refer to the 1962 (and earlier) Missals as the ‘old mass’ or Tridentine. In fact, can we just refer to them as OF and EF? None of the pejorative terms.

While I can’t help but think anyone talking about the “Novus Ordo Church” is going out of their way to make a point I don’t agree with, I don’t see “old Mass” or “Tridentine” as pejorative. Although, the word traditionalist kind of bothers me, along with the ways in which many traditional Catholic and non-traditional Catholics tend to use that and related words.

 

[centurionguard]

I cringe when someone uses those terms, makes me think of sedevacantists!

Pourquoi? Why so? Do you think anybody who makes a complaint about something in the evolving Liturgy of the Novus Ordo Ordinary Form should be seen as a sedevacantist?

IMHO that’s taking the moderators (OP) intention to the far end of the spectrum.

Charity and Respect above all should be foreseen when speaking about both the Ordinary and Extraordinary Forms of the Liturgy.

The Pope has said both forms are as legitimate as the other. None being greater.

 

[Rich_C]

My cringe moment is when someone refers to ‘the new mass’! How dare they? The Mass, at its core is unchanging, yet always new.

As for the outer form, the oder of celebration, I’m hopeful that none prize that above the Mass itself!

I must be misunderstanding you, because it sounds like you’re suggesting that the prayer of the Mass is mere ornamentation (read discipline, not doctrine). In fact, the prayers of the Mass teach us what it means to be Catholic and help define the intentions of the Mass. They are not arbitrary.

If you mean the Holy Sacrifice is unchanging, I agree entirely.

Don’t think that preference for the EF Mass is merely a matter of aesthetics. Even when the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite is celebrated in Latin with incense, chant, bells, and so on, it is not quite the same prayer, not quite as clear an exposition of Catholic theology, and (depending on the optional prayers chosen by the priest) almost seems to have a different intention than the 1962 rite.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

Pourquoi? Why so? Do you think anybody who makes a complaint about something in the evolving Liturgy of the Novus Ordo Ordinary Form should be seen as a sedevacantist?

IMHO that’s taking the moderators (OP) intention to the far end of the spectrum.

Charity and Respect above all should be foreseen when speaking about both the Ordinary and Extraordinary Forms of the Liturgy.

The Pope has said both forms are as legitimate as the other. None being greater.

As I see it, the “pourquoi” is based on postings that use the terminology “NO” both dismissively and perjoratively in usages such as “NO parish,” “NO priest,” even “NO sacraments” - as if they were somehow separate, and lesser, things, and making handy use of the acronym “NO” to seemingly send a further message of disrespect. That’s a long way from “making a complaint.” It is usages such as those that posters have been cautioned against, and rightly so.

 

[ConstantineTG]

The term Novus Ordo was originally used to refer to the new order of the mass when it was revised.

Please refrain from using this term to describe church buildings, clergy, religious or anything other than the order of the Ordinary Form of the mass. E.I. “Novus Ordo church” or Novus Ordo priest.

We have noticed that some people are using the term in a very pejorative manner to refer to anything that is not traditionalist.

Thank You for your kindness.

Might I add that anyone who refers to the Mass as the Novus Ordo Mass also tends to have a negative view of the Mass. We should call it as the Vatican calls it, Ordinary Form of if one prefers the Latin, Forma Ordinaria.

Just a suggestion.

 

[TrueLight]

Might I add that anyone who refers to the Mass as the Novus Ordo Mass also tends to have a negative view of the Mass. We should call it as the Vatican calls it, Ordinary Form of if one prefers the Latin, Forma Ordinaria.

Just a suggestion.

I agree that it is not good to use “Novus Ordo” in the way our moderator is prohibiting.

I don’t agree with you that we shouldn’t use it at all.

The Vatican did not outlaw the term “Novus Ordo” . The Novus Ordo is in fact the ordinary form of the Latin mass because it is the one most commonly used. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t use it.

To a lesser extent, the same goes for those who refer to the 1962 (and earlier) Missals as the ‘old mass’ or Tridentine.

Wow. So old mass or Tridentine Mass, maybe even Traditional Latin Mass should be barred?

 

[Cider]

Might I add that anyone who refers to the Mass as the Novus Ordo Mass also tends to have a negative view of the Mass. We should call it as the Vatican calls it, Ordinary Form of if one prefers the Latin, Forma Ordinaria.

Just a suggestion.

Really? That is a big assumption, especially since I’ve seen the term Novus Ordo used in more than one parish bulletin that celebrates both.

 

[corsair]

From 1970 and perhaps a little earlier, the Mass of Paul VI was known as the Novus Ordo Missae, which translates from its latin to english as “New Order” of the Mass. It was in fact exactly that. The term Ordinary Form wasn’t even dreamed of until the Summorum Pontificum was published on 7/7/07 by our Holy Father, Pope Benedict XVI.

Yes, folks can use the terms in a derogative manner, but it really marks them. I, sometime, mess up and use the term incorrectly.

I sort of feel that some folks are a little “over sensitive” but Forum Rules are Forum Rules so I will abide by them.

 

[ConstantineTG]

The Vatican did not outlaw the term “Novus Ordo” . The Novus Ordo is in fact the ordinary form of the Latin mass because it is the one most commonly used. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t use it.

The Vatican didn’t ban using the term “Da Mazzezz of da Piplzzz”, doesn’t mean we can use it. The issue isn’t whether the term is banned or not, but the intention of people using the term.

 

[centurionguard]

As I see it, the “pourquoi” is based on postings that use the terminology “NO” both dismissively and perjoratively in usages such as “NO parish,” “NO priest,” even “NO sacraments” - as if they were somehow separate, and lesser, things, and making handy use of the acronym “NO” to seemingly send a further message of disrespect. That’s a long way from “making a complaint.” It is usages such as those that posters have been cautioned against, and rightly so.

That’s a bias opinion on your part friend. And I don’t take kindly to you judging me.

The French word Pourquoi means the same as asking Why. How you read into everything else you write as it being dismissively used is beyond me.

Peace
Chris

 

[RogerDeCourcy]

My cringe moment is when someone refers to ‘the new mass’! How dare they? The Mass, at its core is unchanging, yet always new.

As for the outer form, the oder of celebration, I’m hopeful that none prize that above the Mass itself!

This is part of the problem. The term ‘Novus Ordo’ means ‘New Order’ and that’s what we got in the 60’s: A New Order Of Mass. That’s the proper term. That it’s taken on negative connotations is down to what has been associated with it subsequently.

“The Mass, at its core is unchanging, yet always new”. If you can make a statement like that, what do words mean any more, anyway?

I doubt 40 more years of apologia will change this, nor will changing the name. Whatever is wrong needs to be fixed.

 

[centurionguard]

Might I add that anyone who refers to the Mass as the Novus Ordo Mass also tends to have a negative view of the Mass. We should call it as the Vatican calls it, Ordinary Form of if one prefers the Latin, Forma Ordinaria.

Just a suggestion.

I don’t agree with your statement. It depends in what diminutive context the word Novus Ordo is used.

The way I see this thread going is people trying to make the word Novus Ordo a swear word.

 

[TrueLight]

The Vatican didn’t ban using the term “Da Mazzezz of da Piplzzz”, doesn’t mean we can use it. The issue isn’t whether the term is banned or not, but the intention of people using the term.

Right and you can’t judge people’s intentions.

Anyway, I thought this was an FYI from the moderator. I didn’t realize that it was just another debate thread.

 

[Filii_Dei]

Filii Dei;8708299:

To a lesser extent, the same goes for those who refer to the 1962 (and earlier) Missals as the ‘old mass’ or Tridentine. In fact, can we just refer to them as OF and EF? None of the pejorative terms. For the sake of all our sanity.

Wow. So old mass or Tridentine Mass, maybe even Traditional Latin Mass should be barred?

Please don’t misunderstand me. I was referring to those who use ‘old mass’ or ‘Tridentine’ to pejoratively refer to the EF. I’m not asking for any term to be banned, but I’m just making a plea for people to refrain from negatively describing both the OF and EF. The EF is not ‘old’ but ever living. It is not ‘Tridentine’ but the mass of all the Latin church. And I did not say anything about TLM.

Personally, I consider Tridentine and TLM to be an appropriate term, and I often refer to both as such, but it ticks me off to see it used in a negative context, and that’s what ticks me off.

I apologise for my ambiguity. I should have made myself clearer. Pax vobiscum.

 

[TrueLight]

Please don’t misunderstand me. I was referring to those who use ‘old mass’ or ‘Tridentine’ to pejoratively refer to the EF. I’m not asking for any term to be banned, but I’m just making a plea for people to refrain from negatively describing both the OF and EF. The EF is not ‘old’ but ever living. It is not ‘Tridentine’ but the mass of all the Latin church. And I did not say anything about TLM.

Personally, I consider Tridentine and TLM to be an appropriate term, and I often refer to both as such, but it ticks me off to see it used in a negative context, and that’s what ticks me off.

I apologise for my ambiguity. I should have made myself clearer. Pax vobiscum.

No reason to apologize.