Prophecies of Joseph Smith

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To ex mormon- so you have heard the Holy Spirit , only, He was telling to to convert! That is awesome! Way to go. Wish you and the family many blessings! You get to receive Holy COmmunion now, that is the best gift!
 
originally posted by tkdnick
What good does it do to run from the adherents? Can you teach them the truth if you run from them? Can you help them in any way if you run from them? All you do is cause them to move on to the next person who might be convinced by what they say.
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Okaaayyy, let me be specific.
I was once lead on into the jws because I was spirtually hungry, had no “religion” and did not take the time to find out the history. How I wish I had spent some time looking into their (short) history and then run the other way!
Now that I have found God in The Holy Catholic Church, I do not run from these people because I have something to share.
I also have a friend who did not know the Greek Orthodox faith in which she was raised and has joined the mormon church. She now wishes she’d taken more time to learn what they were all about, both the Orthodox and the mormons.
 
You know, the same happened to me when I was like 13. I was searching for the meaning of life and ccd teachers couldnt help. The JW’s came to the door and answered many questions. Of course , parents were really mad! But anyway, they can reallly look appealling if you do not know your faith.God helped me in His time. All is fine now but I have to admit some stuff does sound convincing.Just remember not going to put your faith in somone’s prophecies but in JESUS. Even for us Catholics, we shouldnt be to concerned with the propehtic messages now. It could be a guide but not the basis of our faith.
 
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catsrus:
Okaaayyy, let me be specific.
I was once lead on into the jws because I was spirtually hungry, had no “religion” and did not take the time to find out the history. How I wish I had spent some time looking into their (short) history and then run the other way!
Now that I have found God in The Holy Catholic Church, I do not run from these people because I have something to share.
I also have a friend who did not know the Greek Orthodox faith in which she was raised and has joined the mormon church. She now wishes she’d taken more time to learn what they were all about, both the Orthodox and the mormons.
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So you’re saying run the other way if you don’t know much about it. Not run the other way all the time. Got that right?
 
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crazyage3:
You know, the same happened to me when I was like 13. I was searching for the meaning of life and ccd teachers couldnt help. The JW’s came to the door and answered many questions. Of course , parents were really mad! But anyway, they can reallly look appealling if you do not know your faith.God helped me in His time. All is fine now but I have to admit some stuff does sound convincing.Just remember not going to put your faith in somone’s prophecies but in JESUS. Even for us Catholics, we shouldnt be to concerned with the propehtic messages now. It could be a guide but not the basis of our faith.
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AMEN!!! Jesus was the first, last, and complete revelation of God!!! We need no more revelation!
 
So you’re saying run the other way if you don’t know much about it. Not run the other way all the time. Got that right?
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Your tone indicates to me that you do not want to understand what I’m saying and just want an arguement - which I’m not going to give you.
goodbye.
 
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catsrus:
Your tone indicates to me that you do not want to understand what I’m saying and just want an arguement - which I’m not going to give you.
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Nope, not trying to argue…trying to make sure I understand what you are saying. Sorry if I led you to think otherwise.
 
To get back on track of this thread I will give you another Joseph Smiths prophecies;

The United States Government
to be overthrown in a few years

I prophecy in the name of the Lord God of Israel, unless the United States redress the wrongs committed upon the Saints in the state of Missouri and punish the crimes committed by her officers that in a few years the government will be utterly overthrown and wasted, and there will not be so much as a potsherd left for their wickedness in permitting the murder of men, women and children, and the wholesale plunder and extermination of thousands of her citizens to go unpunished (History of the Church, Vol. 5, page 394).

Joseph Smith made this prophecy in May 6, 1843. However, the United States Government did not redress any of the wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri, and now over 150 years later, the U.S. Government still stands.

Is this not recognized by the church as a Prophet speaking as a Prophet because its not in the Doctorine and Covenants, even though he said it in the name of the Lord God.

something to think about.

ex-mo
 
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ex-mormon:
To get back on track of this thread I will give you another Joseph Smiths prophecies;

The United States Government

to be overthrown in a few years

I prophecy in the name of the Lord God of Israel, unless the United States redress the wrongs committed upon the Saints in the state of Missouri and punish the crimes committed by her officers that in a few years the government will be utterly overthrown and wasted, and there will not be so much as a potsherd left for their wickedness in permitting the murder of men, women and children, and the wholesale plunder and extermination of thousands of her citizens to go unpunished (History of the Church, Vol. 5, page 394).

Joseph Smith made this prophecy in May 6, 1843. However, the United States Government did not redress any of the wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri, and now over 150 years later, the U.S. Government still stands.

Is this not recognized by the church as a Prophet speaking as a Prophet because its not in the Doctorine and Covenants, even though he said it in the name of the Lord God.

something to think about.

ex-mo
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I’ve asked them about this. They say something like he wasnt making a prophesy then. But this is something to think about
 
I’d like to ask about the “burning in the bosom” method of discernment. How is this different from the power of suggestion? If I gave you Kahlil Gibran’s The Prophet and told you to read it and you will know that KG is God if your nose starts to itch. Well, I think your nose would itch in spite of the fact that KG is not God. Kinda like how someone says don’t think of an elephant for the next five minutes. I don’t know about anyone else, but after 30 seconds all I can think of is that darn elephant. 🙂

Scott
 
The 'burning in the bosom" is one man’s description of the feelings at a time of enlightenment. Everybodies experience is different. Before I became an LDS member I had not been taught anything about it. I didn’t know anything about the church except for some strange stories. I acepted a copy of the Book of Mormon from a friend, because I didn’t want to offend him. It stayed on the shelf for over a year. I broused through it one day, and I did begin to feel some thing. It wasn’t a “burning in the bosom” so to speak, more like the feeling of a cup of hot chocolate on a cold day. The more I read it, the more what was being said seemed familiar to me somehow.
It is hard to discribe something to another person unless you have a comon fram of reference. You can’t discribe the taste of salt to another person unless you can relate the experience to another experience (salt tastes like the sea).
But to get back to your orginial question, we believe that it is the Holy Ghost that speaks to us of truth. It is the prompting of the Spirit that is the “burning of the bosom” The Savior taught us in John 14:26 that The “Holy Ghost…shall teach you all things…” and in John 15:26 “…I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, He shall testify of me”. That’s “the burning in the bosom”. This is was I have expierenced; this is what I believe.
 
Paul G:
The 'burning in the bosom" is one man’s description of the feelings at a time of enlightenment. Everybodies experience is different. Before I became an LDS member I had not been taught anything about it. I didn’t know anything about the church except for some strange stories. I acepted a copy of the Book of Mormon from a friend, because I didn’t want to offend him. It stayed on the shelf for over a year. I broused through it one day, and I did begin to feel some thing. It wasn’t a “burning in the bosom” so to speak, more like the feeling of a cup of hot chocolate on a cold day. The more I read it, the more what was being said seemed familiar to me somehow.
It is hard to discribe something to another person unless you have a comon fram of reference. You can’t discribe the taste of salt to another person unless you can relate the experience to another experience (salt tastes like the sea).
But to get back to your orginial question, we believe that it is the Holy Ghost that speaks to us of truth. It is the prompting of the Spirit that is the “burning of the bosom” The Savior taught us in John 14:26 that The “Holy Ghost…shall teach you all things…” and in John 15:26 “…I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, He shall testify of me”. That’s “the burning in the bosom”. This is was I have expierenced; this is what I believe.
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That’s exactly how I felt as I started exploring the Catholic Church. Was it the Holy Spirit giving me these warm feelings? I’m sure you’ll say it was not. That’s why feelings alone are a poor reason to join, or not join a church.
 
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BDawg:
Hi crazy,

If you would like to see LDS perspectives on 1) prophetic infallibility, 2) fulfilled prophecies of Joseph Smith, 3) alleged false prophecies of Joseph Smith, etc., go to the following link:

jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_prophets.shtml

BDawg
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I don’t need to read Jeff Lindsay to know LDS perspectives. Do you have a question?
 
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Tmaque:
That’s exactly how I felt as I started exploring the Catholic Church. Was it the Holy Spirit giving me these warm feelings? I’m sure you’ll say it was not. That’s why feelings alone are a poor reason to join, or not join a church.
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If you believe, and felt (that still small voice), the Holy Ghost has led you to the Catholic Church. Then perhaps that is where Heavenly Father has led “you” to further his will, and that is wonderfull.
 
Bdawg,
I read the site you suggested, and found it very interesting. Apparently the people in this post are only interested in the anti-Mormon side of it. I had never heard any of the things posted by the others, so I really was interested in both sides, but found the other side of the story seemed to be only based on hearsay, and out of context stories told by people who were out to prove the Prophet wrong. It is only logical that is all you find on a Catholic website and they deffinitely are not interested in the truth, as Paul G stated he does not need to know the LDS perspective, so there you are. They do not want balance, only to prove to themselves that the Prophet Joseph Smith was who they want to believe he was. It gives them a warm fuzzy feeling to ridicule another religion, you can see on the thread about condolences from LDS about the Pope and how some, including a priest came into the thread and put down the LDS offering condolences.
I could ask many questions about really far out beliefs of Catholics and they would jump in and defend to the death, no matter how weird and strange the belief is to us.
For instance, today the Catholic Church said they are receiving calls from the people wanting JPII to be made a saint immediately. In order for him to be made a saint there has to be proof that he performed miracles, so now people are calling in with miracles that he performed on them. Amazing how these things just pop up when they need them. Mary just appears on a roof in Egypt and walks around and that is a miracle. Mary appears in a Cheese sandwich(I know that is crazy)I was told by posters in this forum that the cheese sandwich was owned by a woman who may not have even been Catholic. So I do not mean to malign the Catholic faith at all, but just showing how things can look to someone outside the faith. I am told Catholics do not worship Mary, but on TV at the Pope’s funeral mass the prayers were all offered to Mary. I know that they believe she is the Mother of God and therefore seems to be equal or even a little bit above God. I do not understand where the Holy Spirit fits into the Catholic religion as they pray to Mary to pray to God, does the Holy Spirit carry the prayer from Mary to God? I thought she was sitting on His right hand according to Catholics, why then can’t they pray to God directly as we do? See how confused I am? It is just as difficult for a Mormon to understand the intricasies of the Catholic religion as it is for Catholics to understand the LDS beliefs.
Can you understand what I am trying to convey? You believe in what you believe and we believe what we believe. It is no more nonsense for Joseph Smith to have been given the Golden Plates and prophesied of things, than it is for Mary to have been assumpted into heaven without dying simply because no bones have been found. Sounds ridiculous to the unbeliever on either side.
Charity,
BJ :confused:
 
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BDawg:
Hi crazy,

If you would like to see LDS perspectives on 1) prophetic infallibility, 2) fulfilled prophecies of Joseph Smith, 3) alleged false prophecies of Joseph Smith, etc., go to the following link:

jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_prophets.shtml

BDawg
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The author uses weak comparisons of Catholic, Christian and the Saints Peter and Paul compared to Brigham Young and other LDS leaders and Prophets, for example;
I’ll admit that there are some odd things that have been written down in the Journal of Discourses as apparent quotations of Church leaders. The vast majority of the sermons written down in there from the 1800s make a lot of sense to me, but I’m occasionally puzzled about what was meant for some quotations, if they are accurate. But we need to remember that Journal of Discourses is a useful tool, but does not define official LDS doctrine. Even though the vast majority of it is clearly aligned with LDS doctrine, it is not a definitive, authorized source for us. **I can disregard the whole multi-volume set because we are not accountable for what’s in there, no more than we are for the personal speculations of any other Church leader. **

If we had third-party renditions of every sermon that Peter or Paul ever preached, and documents allegedly giving many other statements that they made, you can be sure that there would be occasional puzzling moments (we already have some of that in the scriptures as it is). But pretty much all we have from them now is the tiny fraction of their words that became accepted as scripture. It’s not that way with Brigham Young and other Church leaders, for whom we have volumes and volumes of non-canonized statements and musings. Actually, we do have many volumes of writings from various Christian leaders over the centuries, and they have touched upon many puzzling topics and managed to contradict each other over many issues, sometimes in bitter arguments about things that just don’t make sense today. And often we have their own personal writings rather than third-party recollections or transcriptions of what was said. Mainstream Christians usually don’t even know about such writings and just ignore it since it’s not in the Bible. After all, why should Catholics worry about some outrageous quote from Augustine, or why should Protestants worry about some extreme statements from Martin Luther, if such is not part of their canon of official belief? We should be given the same courtesy: if it’s not official doctrine, the speculations and alleged quotations from Church leaders that we don’t accept as doctrine should not be held against us unless our critics are willing to play by the same rules.
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What third party writings or alleged writings of Peter and Paul is he refering to? What outrageous quote from Augustine is he refering to? My point is this, Pope Honorius I made heretical statements ex-cathedra and was excomunicated for these statements. How come Joseph Smith can make false prophesies in the name of God and not receive the same treatment? How come Brigham young could talk about the Adam God theory, later to have it be called heretical teachings by Spencer W. Kimball, and not receive the same treatment as Pope Honorius I and other excommunicated Catholic church leaders for their Heretical statements? This does not change the fact that false prophesies are false prophesies. Why would the false prophesies not make these men False Prophets or excommunicated for espousing heretical teachings?

God bless,

ex-mo
 
BJ Colbert:
Bdawg,
I do not mean to malign the Catholic faith at all, but just showing how things can look to someone outside the faith. I am told Catholics do not worship Mary, but on TV at the Pope’s funeral mass the prayers were all offered to Mary. I know that they believe she is the Mother of God and therefore seems to be equal or even a little bit above God. I do not understand where the Holy Spirit fits into the Catholic religion as they pray to Mary to pray to God, does the Holy Spirit carry the prayer from Mary to God? I thought she was sitting on His right hand according to Catholics, why then can’t they pray to God directly as we do? See how confused I am? It is just as difficult for a Mormon to understand the intricasies of the Catholic religion as it is for Catholics to understand the LDS beliefs.
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We do not deify Mary in any way what so ever. We pray to Mary and all the Saints for intersession. If I asked you to pray for me, or vice versa, that is an intersession, it does’nt mean that we are worshiping each other or deifing each other. We think of Mary and the Saints as honored members of our christian community and ask them for this intersession. There is no deification or idol worship of Mary and the saints. In the Hail Mary we ask her to pray for us sinners, not to forgive us of our sins. The Holy Spirit is God. The Holy spirit like the rest of the trinity is the most important part of our faith. Have you listened to the prayers during communion, the most important part of our mass. We don’t ask for the power of Mary to transform the bread and wine into the blood and body of Christ, it is through the power of the holy spirit that we do this and complete all of our sacraments. If you don’t know what a sacrament is then here is a simple definition; An outward sign instituted by Christ to give grace. Their is no mention of Mary in these sacraments. Yes we can and do pray directly to God all the time. I hope this helps to clear up your misunderstandings about the Catholic faith.

God bless

ex-mo
 
Paul G:
If you believe, and felt (that still small voice), the Holy Ghost has led you to the Catholic Church. Then perhaps that is where Heavenly Father has led “you” to further his will, and that is wonderfull.
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I see. Theological relativism.

Scott
 
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