Prophecies of Joseph Smith

[BDawg]

Hi Paul,

I’m a Mormon, too. As I said in my post, I was talking to crazyage, who asked the original question, and I posted a link that might help answer some of his questions.

I think Scott might be misunderstanding you, though. For his benefit, I’ll give the following example. At BYU, I took several religion classes from a professor who used to be LDS, then left the Church, then became a Presbyterian minister. He told me that he was sure that God had called him to be a Presbyterian minister, but that later, God called him to become LDS. He then realized that his earlier call did not entail the same kind of authority. Was he a “theological relativist” (i.e., someone who says it doesn’t matter what you believe, as long as it is “true for you”)? No. He just believes that God was leading him along a sort of “customized path,” for His particular purposes.

Does that help?

BDawg

 

[BDawg]

Hi ex-mo,

ex-mormon:

What third party writings or alleged writings of Peter and Paul is he refering to?

“And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other bscriptures, unto their own destruction.” (2 Peter 3:15-16)

Don’t you agree with Peter that some of the things Paul wrote are puzzling? Millions of Protestants horribly abuse them every day. I believe Jeff Lindsay’s point was that there are already a number of difficult passages in the few writings that made it into the Bible. If we had all the writings or sermons of the apostles collected, there would likely be more. Seems like a reasonable statement to me.

ex-mormon:

What outrageous quote from Augustine is he refering to?

Didn’t Augustine have quite a bit to say about predestination that Catholics reject, but Calvinists love to quote? Again, I don’t see the problem with Jeff’s logic.

ex-mormon:

My point is this, Pope Honorius I made heretical statements ex-cathedra and was excomunicated for these statements.

Be careful, there, ex. Aren’t ex cathedra statements of the Pope supposed to be infallible? In the Catholic apologetic writings I’ve read (e.g., Patrick Madrid’s “Pope Fiction”), they’ve always tried to get around the conclusion you just stated.

ex-mormon:

How come Joseph Smith can make false prophesies in the name of God and not receive the same treatment?

Like what? If you give him the same latitude that you would have to give the Biblical prophets, I don’t think you can make the charge stick.

ex-mormon:

How come Brigham young could talk about the Adam God theory, later to have it be called heretical teachings by Spencer W. Kimball, and not receive the same treatment as Pope Honorius I and other excommunicated Catholic church leaders for their Heretical statements?

Because he never presented it as a revelation, and never put it up for a sustaining vote by the Church. What’s more, he seemed to contradict what most people think of as the “Adam-God Theory” on several occasions, so it is not altogether clear what he was talking about. So, we are puzzled by it, and then let it drop.

ex-mormon:

This does not change the fact that false prophesies are false prophesies. Why would the false prophesies not make these men False Prophets or excommunicated for espousing heretical teachings?

You have to give specific examples before we can say anything about this. Which false prophecies are you talking about? Also, you have to remember that the RCC once advocated torture and swordpoint conversion of heretics, so if we don’t get as worked up if someone has an odd opinion or two, we figure that’s not all bad.

BDawg

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

BDawg,

All of your questions are answered in the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/ccc.html

Go have a read sometime or pick one up in a bookstore.

 

[BJ_Colbert]

ex-mormon:

We do not deify Mary in any way what so ever. We pray to Mary and all the Saints for intersession. If I asked you to pray for me, or vice versa, that is an intersession, it does’nt mean that we are worshiping each other or deifing each other. We think of Mary and the Saints as honored members of our christian community and ask them for this intersession. There is no deification or idol worship of Mary and the saints. In the Hail Mary we ask her to pray for us sinners, not to forgive us of our sins. The Holy Spirit is God. The Holy spirit like the rest of the trinity is the most important part of our faith. Have you listened to the prayers during communion, the most important part of our mass. We don’t ask for the power of Mary to transform the bread and wine into the blood and body of Christ, it is through the power of the holy spirit that we do this and complete all of our sacraments. If you don’t know what a sacrament is then here is a simple definition; An outward sign instituted by Christ to give grace. Their is no mention of Mary in these sacraments. Yes we can and do pray directly to God all the time. I hope this helps to clear up your misunderstandings about the Catholic faith.

God bless

ex-mo

I know you don’t think you deify Mary, but to an outsider it would seem that you do. I pointed it out to my Catholic husband when they were all praying to Mary at the funeral of the Pope and he even agreed that it sounded like that. I said just listen all you can hear is Mary. There was no mention of God, there may have been later on, but to the non-Catholic all that came across loud and clear was Mary. So now you see how things get crossed up when someone does not understand your religion and tries to express what they think you believe, and it isn’t at all what you believe. Can you see how frustrating it is when Catholics try to tell Mormons what Mormons believe, and they don’t really understand, or try to understand, but just use half truths and partial quotes and hearsay from this or that anti-mormon writing. Is it frustrating to you? Think how frustrating it is to us.
Thank you for explaining it to me, but it still seems to me like you worship Mary above all others.
I can not and never will understand praying to any other but God himself. As the scripture says, "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the father upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me: and showing mercy unto the thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Exodus 20:4-6
You can see how it looks to an outsider of the Catholic faith with all the statues and in some countries offerings are left at the statues and people bow down and actually pray to the statue.
Do you see why the confusion would happen?
BJ

 

[ex-mormon]

BDawg:

Hi ex-mo,

Don’t you agree with Peter that some of the things Paul wrote are puzzling? Millions of Protestants horribly abuse them every day. I believe Jeff Lindsay’s point was that there are already a number of difficult passages in the few writings that made it into the Bible. If we had all the writings or sermons of the apostles collected, there would likely be more. Seems like a reasonable statement to me.

If you read the KJV of the Bible with poor translation then you can come up with that conclusion. Try reading it from the Saint Joseph Edition of the New American Bible that uses up to date and appropiate translation made in various languages, by preferences from the original texts of the sacred books.

And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you, 16 speaking of these things as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do to the other scriptures.

Peter is not confused or finds Paul’s writings puzzeling, rather he shows parallels to Pauls writings. e.g. God’s will to save, the coming of Christ, and the preparedness for judgement. Therefor the letters of Paul are placed on the same level as the Old Testament.
I guess the ignorant and unstable distort to their own demise. How is this confusing in the writings?

Originally Posted by BDawg
Didn’t Augustine have quite a bit to say about predestination that Catholics reject, but Calvinists love to quote? Again, I don’t see the problem with Jeff’s logic.

I do see the problem with Jeffs logic because Thomas Aquinas with Augustine were on the same page and do not conflict with Catholic teachings on the subject. Calvinists have a different interpratation called “double-predestination,” if you would like to read more here is a link that will give you answers concerning your statement.
catholic.com/thisrock/1993/9309fea1.asp

Originally Posted by BDawg
Be careful, there, ex. Aren’t ex cathedra statements of the Pope supposed to be infallible? In the Catholic apologetic writings I’ve read (e.g., Patrick Madrid’s “Pope Fiction”), they’ve always tried to get around the conclusion you just stated.

Yes they are, unless said Pope was excommunicated for heretical teachings. Your statement does not change the fact that Mormon Prophets are not treated the same way for heretical statements.

Originally Posted by BDawg
Like what? If you give him the same latitude that you would have to give the Biblical prophets, I don’t think you can make the charge stick.

He does not get the same latitude as the Biblical prophets because Jeff Lindsey’s examples were a stretch at best compared to the out right false prophecies of Joseph Smith.

Originally Posted by BDawg
Because he never presented it as a revelation, and never put it up for a sustaining vote by the Church. What’s more, he seemed to contradict what most people think of as the “Adam-God Theory” on several occasions, so it is not altogether clear what he was talking about. So, we are puzzled by it, and then let it drop.

So a “Prophet” can say what ever he feels like and not really mean it unless it is put up for a sustaining vote? This sounds too convienant. I believe Charles Tase Russel did this on several occasions with regard to the end of the world and the battle in heaven. Was he speaking propheticaly or was he just speaking with no consequence to his statements?

Originally Posted by BDawg
You have to give specific examples before we can say anything about this. Which false prophecies are you talking about? Also, you have to remember that the RCC once advocated torture and swordpoint conversion of heretics, so if we don’t get as worked up if someone has an odd opinion or two, we figure that’s not all bad.

)

I believe that I posted two prophecies in previous Posts on this thread. I can give you fifty more from Joseph Smith alone if you would like. The RCC has condemned those tortures and swordpoint conversions of heretics, why has the Mormon church not codemned their previous practices of Blood atonement? Lets keep on topic with the Prophecies of Joseph Smith and start a new thread comparing RCC swordpoint conversions of heretics to LDS practices of blood atonement for apostates and heretics.

God bless

ex-mo

 

[ex-mormon]

BJ Colbert:

I know you don’t think you deify Mary, but to an outsider it would seem that you do. I pointed it out to my Catholic husband when they were all praying to Mary at the funeral of the Pope and he even agreed that it sounded like that. I said just listen all you can hear is Mary. There was no mention of God, there may have been later on, but to the non-Catholic all that came across loud and clear was Mary. So now you see how things get crossed up when someone does not understand your religion and tries to express what they think you believe, and it isn’t at all what you believe. Can you see how frustrating it is when Catholics try to tell Mormons what Mormons believe, and they don’t really understand, or try to understand, but just use half truths and partial quotes and hearsay from this or that anti-mormon writing. Is it frustrating to you? Think how frustrating it is to us.

Once again read my post, I don’t have to think about it, I know we don’t deify Mary. You and your husband ought to read the Catechism of the Catholic Church if this or any other teachings are unclear to you. I don’t get crossed up when it comes to LDS belief, remember I held the “priesthood” in the LDS church. I attended my priesthood meetings dutifully and studied the church teachings, I don’t know about Relief Soceity classes, but I know I had a pretty strong grasp and understood what the church teaches. I think I back up my posts with facts, call them partial quotes or half truths from anti-mormon writing if you wan’t to try to down play what I have to say. But the fact remains that the truth is the truth no matter how much you try to down play it with the anti-mormon cry. Once again I am an ex-mormon not an anti-mormon. Please remember that I do not hate mormons or their teachings, I would like to have an open honest debate about them with relationship to the Catholic Church. Yes I disagree with your doctorine, Is this not what this forum is about.

Thank you for explaining it to me, but it still seems to me like you worship Mary above all others.
I can not and never will understand praying to any other but God himself. As the scripture says, "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the father upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me: and showing mercy unto the thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Exodus 20:4-6
You can see how it looks to an outsider of the Catholic faith with all the statues and in some countries offerings are left at the statues and people bow down and actually pray to the statue.
Do you see why the confusion would happen?
BJ

Once again the confusion is brought about from ignorance to the beliefs and teachings of the Catholic church. Every Catholic church you go into, the focus is on Christ, usually a large crucafix or like my church a large statue of the risen Christ is behind the altar, the ceterpiece of our churches. Don’t fall pray to *Sola Scriptura *or you will have to reevaluate your own faith and the teachings of your Prophets. We don’t worship statues or pray to them, they are used as visual reminders of the Saints that they repersent like the statue Moroni on the LDS temples, books, ect. The confusion would not happen if you understood the Catholic faith as much as I understand yours. Some people think that Mormons worship Joseph Smith more than Christ because at every Fast and Testimony meeting everyone says “I know the Church is true and that Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God” no one says " I Know Christ is our saviour and redeemer" I know that it is implied and that Mormons believe that, but to an outsider this would seem like church and JS worship and praise only. Read the Catachism with your husband or feel free to ask these question in an educational tone and not a defensive tone with regard to your beliefs.

God bless

ex-mo

 

[Tmaque]

BJ Colbert:

I can not and never will understand praying to any other but God himself.  As the scripture says, "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the father upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me: and showing mercy unto the thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Exodus 20:4-6

BJ

I’ve seen people praying near the temple in Salt Lake City. Are they worshipping the temple? I’ve seen people kneel at graves and “talk” to their loved ones, are they worshipping them? Of course not. We don’t worship Mary, but we do pray to her and to the rest of the saints and ask them to pray for us. Have you ever asked someone to pray for you BJ? I sure have. What’s wrong with asking saints in heaven to pray for us?

As far as the passage from Exodus goes, are you saying that LDS don’t have statues and paintings? Do you really believe Catholics, when they kneel before a statue, somehow get confused and think the statue is God? Or, is actually Mary? Do you get confused when you look at a photo of a deceased relative and think that you’re actually seeing them, and not a representation of them? Of course you don’t, and neither do Catholics get confused. The fact is we ask others to pray for us, and so do you. We just believe that they can still pray for us after they pass on, you obviously do not.

Also, we pray to Jesus, you do not. Why is that? Isn’t Jesus (a)God? Isn’t he the Saviour of mankind? Yet LDS can’t pray to him? Well, if praying to and worshipping Jesus is wrong then I can see why you’d be uncomfortable praying to his Mother for assistance.

 

[Paul_G]

I am impressed with all the knowledge that is displayed by every one above. However, throwing mud on each others parade is pointless. Nobody gets anything out of it but sore fingers. If we want to discuss whether Joseph Smith measures up as a prophet, perhaps we can start by putting our collective knowledge into a discussion about what it is to be a prohet, according to the scriptures. Maybe start a new topic, to clean the slate as it were. I believe that would be much more interesting, informative, and it would reduce the cost of soap and papertowels.

 

[BJ_Colbert]

ex-mormon:

Once again read my post, I don’t have to think about it, I know we don’t deify Mary. You and your husband ought to read the Catechism of the Catholic Church if this or any other teachings are unclear to you. I don’t get crossed up when it comes to LDS belief, remember I held the “priesthood” in the LDS church. I attended my priesthood meetings dutifully and studied the church teachings, I don’t know about Relief Soceity classes, but I know I had a pretty strong grasp and understood what the church teaches. I think I back up my posts with facts, call them partial quotes or half truths from anti-mormon writing if you wan’t to try to down play what I have to say. But the fact remains that the truth is the truth no matter how much you try to down play it with the anti-mormon cry. Once again I am an ex-mormon not an anti-mormon. Please remember that I do not hate mormons or their teachings, I would like to have an open honest debate about them with relationship to the Catholic Church. Yes I disagree with your doctorine, Is this not what this forum is about.

Once again the confusion is brought about from ignorance to the beliefs and teachings of the Catholic church. Every Catholic church you go into, the focus is on Christ, usually a large crucafix or like my church a large statue of the risen Christ is behind the altar, the ceterpiece of our churches. Don’t fall pray to *Sola Scriptura *or you will have to reevaluate your own faith and the teachings of your Prophets. We don’t worship statues or pray to them, they are used as visual reminders of the Saints that they repersent like the statue Moroni on the LDS temples, books, ect. The confusion would not happen if you understood the Catholic faith as much as I understand yours. Some people think that Mormons worship Joseph Smith more than Christ because at every Fast and Testimony meeting everyone says “I know the Church is true and that Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God” no one says " I Know Christ is our saviour and redeemer" I know that it is implied and that Mormons believe that, but to an outsider this would seem like church and JS worship and praise only. Read the Catachism with your husband or feel free to ask these question in an educational tone and not a defensive tone with regard to your beliefs.

God bless

ex-mo

You are right that I do not know enough about the Catholic church to say they worship Mary(I know they do not) I am just saying it seems as if they do.
The other thing about Testimonies they almost all say" I know that Jesus Christ is my savior and redeemer" They also often say they know that Joseph Smith or Gordon B. Hinckley are prophets and that this is the restored Church of Jesus Christ. Everyone says a little different ending to their testimonies as you know and most often it is Knowing that Jesus Christ is the head of the Church and our Savior. So in that portion you don’t quite remember correctly.
I have never said anything about Joseph Smith in my testimony although many do.
I wish my husband knew more about his Catholic religion, he is 70 years old and has been a member since he was put in a Catholic orphanage when he was 5 or 6 years old. You would think with being raised by Nuns and living his whole life as a Catholic, with all that entails(being an alter boy etc.) He never misses a Sunday mass and still does not understand what the Catholic church teaches.
Sorry, but that has a large influence on my opinion of the teachings of the Catholic Church. They missed something somewhere in teaching a boy that they raised from childhood and who is so faithful. He is not a stupid person, he is a retired Marine and lived in Italy for 15 years working for NATO.
Sorry, to get so far off topic everyone…I will shut up and listen now.
BJ

 

[BJ_Colbert]

ex-mormon:

To get back on track of this thread I will give you another Joseph Smiths prophecies;

The United States Government
to be overthrown in a few years

I prophecy in the name of the Lord God of Israel, unless the United States redress the wrongs committed upon the Saints in the state of Missouri and punish the crimes committed by her officers that in a few years the government will be utterly overthrown and wasted, and there will not be so much as a potsherd left for their wickedness in permitting the murder of men, women and children, and the wholesale plunder and extermination of thousands of her citizens to go unpunished (History of the Church, Vol. 5, page 394).

Joseph Smith made this prophecy in May 6, 1843. However, the United States Government did not redress any of the wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri, and now over 150 years later, the U.S. Government still stands.

Is this not recognized by the church as a Prophet speaking as a Prophet because its not in the Doctorine and Covenants, even though he said it in the name of the Lord God.

something to think about.

ex-mo

It’s just me again, sorry, but one of the states did apologize officially for what they did to the Mormons. It was either Illinois or Missouri, can’t remember which…BJ

 

[Paul_G]

I’m sorry, I might be standing on shaky knowlege of American history, but didn’t the states or territories (my ignorance is showing) that perpetrated the wrongs that Joseph Smith talked about go down to defeat with thier government “wasted” after the civil war.

 

[ex-mormon]

Paul G:

I’m sorry, I might be standing on shaky knowlege of American history, but didn’t the states or territories (my ignorance is showing) that perpetrated the wrongs that Joseph Smith talked about go down to defeat with thier government “wasted” after the civil war.

The civil war started 18 year after this “prophecy”. Missouri seperated ties with the US Government in 1861 and declared itself an independent Republic and became part of the Confedercy. The US Government nor the Missouri were destroyed or “wasted” during the US Civil War. Under President Johnson the Missouri Government was allowed to renter into the Union after the war with one main consession, that it could not seceed from the Union ever again. This prophecy did not come true because the US Government was not wasted without so much of a “potsherd” left. I hope this helps.

God bless,

ex-mo

 

[Chris-WA]

BJ Colbert:

The other thing about Testimonies they almost all say" I know that Jesus Christ is my savior and redeemer" They also often say they know that Joseph Smith or Gordon B. Hinckley are prophets and that this is the restored Church of Jesus Christ. Everyone says a little different ending to their testimonies as you know and most often it is Knowing that Jesus Christ is the head of the Church and our Savior. So in that portion you don’t quite remember correctly.

I don’t agree with this at all, because I’ve attended sacrament meetings with my wife in different parts of the country, and rarely does a testimony end like you say. It’s usually something like this: “I know the Book of Mormon is true and that Joseph Smith was a prophet.” That is the most common testimony I’ve heard. Never have I heard anyone say, "I know the Bible is true," and rarely have I heard “I know that Jesus Christ is my savior and redeemer” as the ending testimony to someone’s talk.
BJ Colbert:

I wish my husband knew more about his Catholic religion, he is 70 years old and has been a member since he was put in a Catholic orphanage when he was 5 or 6 years old. You would think with being raised by Nuns and living his whole life as a Catholic, with all that entails(being an alter boy etc.) He never misses a Sunday mass and still does not understand what the Catholic church teaches.
Sorry, but that has a large influence on my opinion of the teachings of the Catholic Church. They missed something somewhere in teaching a boy that they raised from childhood and who is so faithful. He is not a stupid person, he is a retired Marine and lived in Italy for 15 years working for NATO.

BJ, you definitely point out some truth here. I believe the lack of good catechesis is the single biggest reason why we lose Catholics to other churches. The lack of education makes Catholics very vulnerable to other religions. But you need to judge the Catholic Church’s teachings by the content, not by how well (or poorly) the content is taught. Of course, the lack of weekly Sunday school doesn’t excuse a Catholic for not knowing their faith. There are plenty of good resources out there and all it takes will. If your husband really wants to know his faith, their are good resources everywhere for him to read, see, or hear.

 

[blueadept]

I’ve mentioned to my wife that I don’t wish to go to church with her on testimonial Sundays. Everyone says about the same thing. Jesus Christ is the head of the Church, Joseph Smith was a prophet for the “restored gospel,” the BOM is true and Gordon B. Hinkley is todays prophet. What bothers me is when a little kid gets up to the podium and says this. It comes across to me as ‘you’ve been programmed well’ and I look at both the positive and negative aspects of a little kid giving a testimonial to an adult investigating the church.

I’m not going to argue that my upbringing in the CC was very strong (it wasn’t). My mom was in a convent before marrying my dad (had a poor example of being LDS growing up). I told my wife I had a 2nd grade understanding of my faith a year ago. She said that she thought it was worse than that. All I know is that I’m trying to ensure my children have a better understanding of the Catholic faith than I did. I always thank my wife for challenging me to find my way back to Christ. I can appreciate the way the LDS church keeps children involved in learning their faith with all the kids activities and seminary. Us as Catholics can learn a few pointers on how to pass on the faith.

Peace

 

[BJ_Colbert]

Thank you for your answers to me, even though I was off subject. There is a very good thread in this forum on misconceptions of Catholic beliefs, and the LDS should have a thread like that…we all tend to take our falsehoods and misconceptions and run with them as if they were true. Like gossip it just spreads and gets enhanced until falsehoods stand as fact to people who are ignorant of the truth.
BJ

 

[Paul_G]

ex-mormon:

The civil war started 18 year after this “prophecy”. Missouri seperated ties with the US Government in 1861 and declared itself an independent Republic and became part of the Confedercy. The US Government nor the Missouri were destroyed or “wasted” during the US Civil War. Under President Johnson the Missouri Government was allowed to renter into the Union after the war with one main consession, that it could not seceed from the Union ever again. This prophecy did not come true because the US Government was not wasted without so much of a “potsherd” left. I hope this helps.

God bless,

ex-mo

Thanks for your response ex-mo. So it was the confederacy that was destroyed which Missouri belonged to. I know some of the larger history, and the contributions that some Canadians made in the civil war, but not some of the finer details. So that was interesting.

 

[ex-mormon]

Here is another prophecy of** Joseph Smith**

Congress to be broken up as a government

*While discussing the petition to Congress, I prophesied, by virtue of the holy Priesthood vested in me, and in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, that, if Congress will not hear our petition and grant us protection, they shall be broken up as a government, and God shall damn them, and there shall be nothing left of them — not even a grease spot. (Millennial Star, Vol. 22, p. 455. See also History of the Church (HC), vol. 6, p. 116, though when this prediction was incorporated into the official history, Mormon Church leaders decided to leave out the “grease spot” part.) *

The petition was not heard nor was protection granted (Deseret News, Vol. 1, p. 59). Yet, Congress was never broken up and continues to function to this day.

I hope this puts the thread back on topic.

God bless

ex-mo

 

[tkdnick]

Paul G:

Thanks for your response ex-mo. So it was the confederacy that was destroyed which Missouri belonged to. I know some of the larger history, and the contributions that some Canadians made in the civil war, but not some of the finer details. So that was interesting.

I didn’t know Canada participated in the Civil War! And here I thought I knew a lot about that war. Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut!

 

[ex-mormon]

tkdnick:

I didn’t know Canada participated in the Civil War! And here I thought I knew a lot about that war. Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut!

tkdnick,

It estimated that 40,000 - 60,000 Canadians fought in our Civil War and the British and British North America (Canada) would remain nuetral. I would consider this a finer detail of the war in general. The Confedercy had a great influence on the Canadian Government with the question of the right to sucede. This is something that Quebec has been trying to do for a long time. It does not change the fact the US government was not wasted as prophesied by Joseph Smith.

Hope this helps.

ex-mo

 

[tkdnick]

ex-mormon:

It does not change the fact the US government was not wasted as prophesied by Joseph Smith.

Oh, I was making no claim to whether JS’s prophecy came true or not (I don’t believe it did), I was just commenting on the Canadian thing since I studied the Civil War in relative detail and never heard that.