Prophesying/Speaking something into being

[Montgomeryatty]

For those unfamiliar, I’m a So. Baptist strongly looking toward Rome. I’m slowly introducing the tenets of the Church to my wife, also a So. Baptist. Concurrently, she has joined several of her friends in attending a “womens’ Bible study” led by a very nice, but very charistmatic woman in our church. The other night, after that Bible study, my wife asked what I thought about “prophesying,” elaborating that she was referring to the notion of “speaking something into being.” For instance, she suggested, if she was to look at our young son and say, “You’re going to be a wonderful gentleman when you grow up,” that she was prophesying something that she desired to occur, and that (I presume) God would hear this prophesy and cause it occur. Sounds like pop psychology to me, but then my wife explained that this was, as she no doubt heard from her Bible study leader, a “biblical” concept. Furthermore, my wife continued, parroting precisely what she has been taught, “the Baptists just don’t teach it because they’re afraid folks will go Pentecostal or something.” Since I’m trying to bring my wife with me into the RCC at some point in the near future, the last thing I need is someone filling her head with garbage. On the other hand, this might be valid, I just don’t know. I don’t mind my wife telling my son he’s going to be a gentleman, and as I replied to her after I heard that example: “Let’s just say you’re giving him a blessing.” But the larger picture here is that it sounds like the woman has chosen to use this Bible study to insert her own particular charistmatic viewpoints into a Bible study, ironically, devoted to helping women submit themselves to their husbands’ leadership. I just worry that I’ll come home in a few weeks and find my wife speaking in tongues, replying that its “Biblical.” Thoughts anyone? Valid, … or garbage??

 

[Church_Militant]

Hi Montgomery!

Your beloved has been exposed to the “name it and claim it” theology and its errors.

Sit down with her and go over the scriptures that she was taught this with and look at the context and I think you’ll find that it’s junk. Hopefully she’ll see that too.

These folks tend to believe that if they speak only positive things that nothing difficult or no suffering will befall them. To me it’s a sort of superstition, and the folks I’ve run into who believe all that act like every word form their mouth is some kind of prophecy that God is bound to fulfill. (Either for good or ill).

Here’s an article on it that is pretty much accurate.

My question to WoF people would be. If all that is true, then what about the martyrdom of all but one of the apostles? What about Hebrews 11, especially verses 36-40? And of course Matthew 5:1-11?
Pax tecum,

 

[dylanschrader]

There are times where God has guaranteed to us that words are effective along with intention and other elements, such as in the sacraments. In these cases, we have God’s assurance that he will bring about what needs to be brought about through the actions of his minister.

It’s dangerous to think that we can speak things into being. God can do that, but our speech is only declaratory of what he does except, for example, in the sacraments which actually bring about grace. Even then, God is the one who does the work, but he has promised us that his words are effective.

I could be a little unclear on what exactly is being described. It sounds like “magic” with a Christian flavor to me, but I may misunderstand the exact relationship of the words to the event as it being described.

 

[MelanieAnne]

There is also the possibility of the “power of positive thinking” being at work here. If you look for something, it might just appear to you. Maybe you might have seen it anyway, maybe not. When you’re looking for something, you’re more attentive to it displaying itself to you.

Likewise, if your wife truly believes that her children will grow up to be kind and gentle, as she wishes they will do, then perhaps she will conform her behavior towards achieving that end result, both by her own behavior as well as how she raises/teaches them. There doesn’t have to be anything particularly “magical” about this, but neither is it necessarily spiritual.

That the woman your wife is studying with may be preaching positive psychology does not, in and of itself, mean it’s anything bad. But neither do those lessons, no matter how helpful, mean that the faith taught within the same building is that of the True Church.

My best wishes for your success.

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

For instance, she suggested, if she was to look at our young son and say, “You’re going to be a wonderful gentleman when you grow up,” that she was prophesying something that she desired to occur, and that (I presume) God would hear this prophesy and cause it occur. Sounds like pop psychology to me, but then my wife explained that this was, as she no doubt heard from her Bible study leader, a “biblical” concept.
Valid, … or garbage??

Largely garbage. Realistic plans, pressed forwards with determination, may well come to fruition, and it is probably realistic to expect that a son can we taught good manners and high morals. However the lady cannot control for him going under a bus.
Articulating the plan helps to firm it up in the mind, and God can answer prayers, particuarly worthy ones like this one. However calling it “prophecy” verges on magic. Magic is distinguished from prayer in that the magician seeks to manipulate supernatural forces rather than give them honour.

 

[puzzleannie]

For those unfamiliar, I’m a So. Baptist strongly looking toward Rome. I’m slowly introducing the tenets of the Church to my wife, also a So. Baptist. Concurrently, she has joined several of her friends in attending a “womens’ Bible study” led by a very nice, but very charistmatic woman in our church. The other night, after that Bible study, my wife asked what I thought about “prophesying,” elaborating that she was referring to the notion of “speaking something into being.” For instance, she suggested, if she was to look at our young son and say, “You’re going to be a wonderful gentleman when you grow up,” that she was prophesying something that she desired to occur, and that (I presume) God would hear this prophesy and cause it occur. ??

If she were not a Baptist, many of whom, like a lot of Evangelicals, are highly suspicious and critical of pentecostalism, she would know more about the genuine charismatic gifts, and this is not the charismatic definition of prophesy, certainly not in Catholic Charismatic renewal. This definition is heretical, that we can order God to do something in the future, that we can control or predict the future. These ideas are more new age than charismatic. Prophesy means speaking the truth to those who need to hear it, for the benefit of those present, or for the Church at large. She is also being led into the common error of supposing that the charismatic gifts can be claimed and exercised on demand, that everyone has and can use all the gifts on their own will. Paul explains them in Corinthians and Ephesians, makes it clear that they are given to build up the Church, not for individuals to use for their own benefit (as in the example your wife gave) and that not everyone has every gift, and that they are gifts, not rights.