Prophet like Unto Moses : here we go

[planten]

he will come to fulfill the sharia, maybe start wars, kill people, rob caravans, kill those who mock him, take a dozen women…our discussion is not about the Islamic Issa.

We are talking about Jesus according to NT, and Muhammad according to Quran, to see which one is the prophet like unto Moses so both of us must present similarities between ONLY Jesus and Moses (not the rest of humanity) to see which one is like Moses.

The arguments presented by Muslims are shared not only with Moses but with bilions of humans so its time to present things common only to Moses and Muhammad if there are any, gather the info, and assess.

Put in mind that the first criteria is talking to God face to face with eyewitnesses. Did Muhammad meet it?

**Talking to God?? Which God?? You have quite a few. Do you mean Jesus?? I feel that you mean Moses. We Muslims also believe that Moses talked to God. But there is no news of Jesus talking to God. I feel that it is not in the bible too.

Jesus is himself a god. Could he be talking to another god?? Or to himself?? This matter is not understood. Anyhow, let us talk from the point of success story of Moses and Muhammad. How they overcame their enemies. None of them was caught and punished.

Moses was not put on the cross. He was not a god. He did not say that he will come back. These things make Jesus different to Moses. But Muhammad is not only like Jesus but also like Moses. His early time in Makkah was an exact picture of the life of Jesus, in a peaceful way, working with love.

When the enemy got ready to kill Muhammad, he migrated to Madinah. That is same as the migration of Moses. Jesus did not migrate. In Madinah, there were activities and wars. He had to fight the enemy and to lead the people. That is exactly like Moses.

And the final victory of Muhammad matches that of Moses. Jesus did not achieve that clear victory but left his followers in a stte of shock and sorrow.**

 

[Rocky]

Talking to God?? Which God?? You have quite a few. Do you mean Jesus?? I feel that you mean Moses. We Muslims also believe that Moses talked to God. But there is no news of Jesus talking to God. I feel that it is not in the bible too.

Jesus is himself a god. Could he be talking to another god?? Or to himself?? This matter is not understood. Anyhow, let us talk from the point of success story of Moses and Muhammad. How they overcame their enemies. None of them was caught and punished.

Moses was not put on the cross. He was not a god. He did not say that he will come back. These things make Jesus different to Moses. But Muhammad is not only like Jesus but also like Moses. His early time in Makkah was an exact picture of the life of Jesus, in a peaceful way, working with love.

When the enemy got ready to kill Muhammad, he migrated to Madinah. That is same as the migration of Moses. Jesus did not migrate. In Madinah, there were activities and wars. He had to fight the enemy and to lead the people. That is exactly like Moses.

And the final victory of Muhammad matches that of Moses. Jesus did not achieve that clear victory but left his followers in a stte of shock and sorrow.

Jesus’ victory was clearer and more convincing than any other victory before or since— He rose from the dead!! His victory is one over sin and death!! And it was so complete, that those who followed Him were willing to be whipped and crucified and thrown to the lions, because of the belief in the Resurrection of the Dead on the Last Day.

Tonight is Christmas Eve— I praise God for the birth of our Savior!!

 

[planten]

Jesus’ victory was clearer and more convincing than any other victory before or since— He rose from the dead!! His victory is one over sin and death!! And it was so complete, that those who followed Him were willing to be whipped and crucified and thrown to the lions, because of the belief in the Resurrection of the Dead on the Last Day.

Tonight is Christmas Eve— I praise God for the birth of our Savior!!

**Yes, the victory of Jesus may be clear. But Jesus rising from the dead is no similarity to Moses at all. Moses never rose from the dead. We are looking for some similarities between Jesus and Moses. So that one is out of line.

Muhammad died and did not get up. So did Moses die and did not get up. Muhammad is same as or the like of Moses, not Jesus.
Merry Christmas. 25 December.**

 

[paarsurrey]

He rose from the dead!!

Hi

I think that is very doubtful. Jesus never rose from the dead, this seems to be a misconception of our friends. Jesus wanted to show a sign to adulterous Jews - the Sign of Jonah. Jonah did not rose from the dead. If Jesus died then he never showed this sign, in my opinion.

Thanks

 

[ralphinal]

Hi

I think that is very doubtful. Jesus never rose from the dead, this seems to be a misconception of our friends. Jesus wanted to show a sign to adulterous Jews - the Sign of Jonah. Jonah did not rose from the dead. If Jesus died then he never showed this sign, in my opinion.

Thanks

Cool post, Paar.

Jonah: swallowed by the whale, in three days coming back

Sign of Jonah: burried in tomb (“Swallowed by the whale”), in three days coming back!

He did not say he would do what Jonah did, nor did he say it would even be similar to Jonah, but a sign of it. Who has been eaten and returns in three days? Who has been dead and rises in three days?

It is like the prophet unto Moses. No one was found in the river by the daughter of the opressive king, raised as one of the court, leaves, sees God face to face, returns to work great signs, frees his people, leads them for 40 years through the desert, sees the promised land, dies, and then God himself sees to his burial. No one ever did that and no one else ever will. But, one was like Moses in ministry and deed.

 

[De_Maria]

Now this was John’s testimony when the Jews of Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was.
He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely, "I am not the Messiah."
They asked him, “Then who are you?** Are you Elijah?**”
He said, “I am not.”
"Are you the Prophet?"
He answered, “No.”
Finally they said, “Who are you? Give us an answer to take back to those who sent us. What do you say about yourself?”
John replied in the words of Isaiah the prophet, "I am the voice of one calling in the desert, ‘Make straight the way for the Lord.’ "
Now some Pharisees who had been sent questioned him, "Why then do you baptize if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?"
“I baptize with water,” John replied, "but among you stands one you do not know. (John 1:19-26)

No man has seen God at any time. God is revealed in the Only Begotten which comes from the bosom of the Eternal And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?” And he did not deny, but confessed, "I am not the Messiah."
They asked him, “What then? Are you Elias?” And he said, “I am not.” “Are you the prophet of whom Moses spoke?” And he answered, “No.” Then they said to him, “Who are you? That we may give an answer to those who sent us. What do you say for yourself?” And he said, " I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness. Make straight the way of the holy One, as said the prophet Isaiah."
Those who were sent there by the Pharisees asked him, “Why do you baptize then, if you are not that Messiah, nor Elias, neither that prophet of whom Moses spoke?”
John answered, “I baptize with water; but there stands one among you, whom you don’t know. He will baptize with water and with fire. It is He who is coming after me, but is preferred before me, He whose shoes’ latchet I am not worthy to untie.” (Nazirenes 8:4-7)

The Messiah and the Prophet described in Deuteronomy are not the same person, so it’s not Jesus. I won’t push Muhammad on anyone, as firstly I deem trying to ‘prove’ which religion is right by comparing prophecy fulfillment is flawed (since they can be interpreted anyway one wishes) and that the identity of this one is inconclusive. That the Deuteronomy Prophet and the Messiah are completely different characters is conclusive however.

Lol!!!

Kadaveri,

This verse you have quoted is St. John the Baptist denying he is the Christ.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[planten]

Now this was John’s testimony when the Jews of Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was.
He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely, "I am not the Messiah."
They asked him, “Then who are you?** Are you Elijah?**”
He said, “I am not.”
"Are you the Prophet?"
He answered, “No.”
Finally they said, “Who are you? Give us an answer to take back to those who sent us. What do you say about yourself?”
John replied in the words of Isaiah the prophet, "I am the voice of one calling in the desert, ‘Make straight the way for the Lord.’ "
Now some Pharisees who had been sent questioned him, "Why then do you baptize if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?"
“I baptize with water,” John replied, "but among you stands one you do not know. (John 1:19-26)

No man has seen God at any time. God is revealed in the Only Begotten which comes from the bosom of the Eternal And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?” And he did not deny, but confessed, "I am not the Messiah."
They asked him, “What then? Are you Elias?” And he said, “I am not.” “Are you the prophet of whom Moses spoke?” And he answered, “No.” Then they said to him, “Who are you? That we may give an answer to those who sent us. What do you say for yourself?” And he said, " I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness. Make straight the way of the holy One, as said the prophet Isaiah."
Those who were sent there by the Pharisees asked him, “Why do you baptize then, if you are not that Messiah, nor Elias, neither that prophet of whom Moses spoke?”
John answered, “I baptize with water; but there stands one among you, whom you don’t know. He will baptize with water and with fire. It is He who is coming after me, but is preferred before me, He whose shoes’ latchet I am not worthy to untie.” (Nazirenes 8:4-7)

The Messiah and the Prophet described in Deuteronomy are not the same person, so it’s not Jesus. I won’t push Muhammad on anyone, as firstly I deem trying to ‘prove’ which religion is right by comparing prophecy fulfillment is flawed (since they can be interpreted anyway one wishes) and that the identity of this one is inconclusive. That the Deuteronomy Prophet and the Messiah are completely different characters is conclusive however.

**The questioning of John the Baptist and his reply clearly indicate that Messaih and That Prophet (of Deut. 18) are not the same. Other wise why would the people ask: Are you the Messiah? And then ask: Are you that prophet?? It means that the Jews believed that their promised Messiah for whom they were waiting was not the same as That Prophet. So Jesus cannot be that prophet mentioned in Deut 18.

Otherwise some one should explain that mode of questioning.**

 

[inJESUS]

Do you mean Jesus??

yes

I feel that you mean Moses

as well

. We Muslims also believe that Moses talked to God.

which is the first criteria to the resemblance between Moses and the prophet to come. Does Muhammad fit this criteria? no, because he received revelations from an angel, not from God and because no one witnessed God’s voice during his lifetime and because, unlike Moses and Jesus, his face did not glow with the glory of God after speaking to God before eyewitnesses.

"And there has not arisen a prophet since in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face,

and

**“If I hear the voice of the Lord my God any more, or ever again see this great fire, I will die.” **Then the Lord replied to me: "They are right in what they have said. I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their own people…

and

As Moses came down from Mount Sinai with the two tablets of the commandments in his hands, he did not know that the skin of his face had become radiant while he conversed with the LORD.

But there is no news of Jesus talking to God

John 17:5 - “So now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had in your presence before the world existed.”

Matthew 17:5 - "While he was still speaking, suddenly a bright cloud overshadowed them, and from the cloud a voice said, “This is my Son, the Beloved; with him I am well pleased; listen to him!”

And he (Jesus) was transfigured before them; his face shone like the sun and his clothes became white as light…… then from the cloud came a voice that said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to him.” Matthew 17

People heard the Father’s voice in Moses time and Jesus’ time when Moses and Jesus’ faces became radiant like the sun. Did this happen with Muhammad’s followers?

How they overcame their enemies. None of them was caught and punished.

is it a criteria that makes Moses and Muhammad unique in what they did.

Moses was not put on the cross. He was not a god. He did not say that he will come back. These things make Jesus different to Moses.

no one said Jesus is a replica. Likwise, Muhammad did not have to be a replica of Moses. There are things not shared by either Jesus, or Muhammad, with Moses. We are investigating the similarities UNIQUE to Moses and the prophet to come.

Muhammad was no Jew (first problem). He did not know God face to face neither did God talk to his followers (second problem). He performed no miracles ( third problem)…Say: "For me, I (work) on a clear sign from my Lord, but you reject Him. What you would see hastened (a miracle) is not in my power. The command (to perform a miracle) rests with none by Allah.

28:48 - "…They (the people who did not believe in Muhammad) say, "Why aren’t miracles sent to him like those sent to Moses?"

at one you can see that Muhammad does not share any of these criteria mentioned by the Bible and that fit Jesus…relying on wars to find similarities is neither in the Bible, nor is it a unique criteria between Mohammad and Moses.

His early time in Makkah was an exact picture of the life of Jesus, in a peaceful way, working with love.

this is not a unique similarity. You cannot tell me Muhammad is like Moses because both ate food…this is common, not unique.

When the enemy got ready to kill Muhammad, he migrated to Madinah. That is same as the migration of Moses. Jesus did not migrate.

yes, migration is one of point of similarity you can use.

In Madinah, there were activities and wars. He had to fight the enemy and to lead the people. That is exactly like Moses.

is this unique to only Muhammad and Moses?

And the final victory of Muhammad matches that of Moses.

what victory?

to conclude, you must put in mind that the prophet to come will not be an exact replica of Moses but must do things unique between only him and Moses, like the dozens comparisons i presented so forth about Jesus. War is not something unique.

and you must not forget that this sentence uttered by Jesus was written loooong time before Muhammad:

(Jesus said If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote of me. (John 5:46).

When God promised the Jews a prophet, He did not promise them a NON-Jew, neither a prophet who will KILL them, nor a prophet who will CONTRADICT what Moses did and Muhammad fits both.

 

[inJESUS]

**The questioning of John the Baptist and his reply clearly indicate that Messaih and That Prophet (of Deut. 18) are not the same. Other wise why would the people ask: Are you the Messiah? And then ask: Are you that prophet?? It means that the Jews believed that their promised Messiah for whom they were waiting was not the same as That Prophet. So Jesus cannot be that prophet mentioned in Deut 18.

Otherwise some one should explain that mode of questioning.**

and according to this reasoning, then Muhammad is not the prophet because the Jews asked a JEW if he were the prophet, not an Ishmaelite.

 

[inJESUS]

These kind of peculiarities are expected in such a discussion. Does Muhammad even come close?

1-talked to God face to face

2-were Jews

3-Had the voice of God as a witness of his authority (Numbers 11:24-25). (Matthew 17:24-25).

3-Moses was born into a situation when his brethren were being oppressed by Pharaoh. Jesus was born into the time when the pagan Roman empire was oppressing His brethren.

4-Moses grew up in a country where the king, Pharaoh, was afraid that the slaves would Revolt. Jesus grew up where king Herod, “the Great,” was afraid the descendants of those very same slaves would revolt.

5-Moses’ father was a Mystery to the General Public. The Father of Jesus and the facts of His virgin birth were a mystery to the general public.

6-Had a peculiar bed as an infant (Ex. 2:3). Jesus also had a peculiar bed (Luke 2:7)

7-Was raised in the house of a man who was not his father, but he was adopted into the family (Ex. 2). Jesus was raised in the house of Joseph who was not His biological father, but He was adopted into the family (Matt. 1:18 & 25 and Acts 7:20-21).

8-During the time of Moses’ birth, the Scriptures reveal that the Pharaoh of Egypt made a decree that all newborn male children of Israel would be killed.Likewise with Jesus.

9-Exodus 2:2-6,10 reveals that Moses’ mother sent him into Egypt when he was three months of age. It was there where he was kept safe. Likewise with Jesus.

10-Moses’ return to his own land. In Exodus 4:19 we read, “And the Lord said unto Moses in Midian, Go, return into Egypt: for all the men are dead which sought thy life”.
The antitype of this is found in Matthew 2:19, “An angel of the Lord appeareth in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, saying, Arise, and take the young Child and His mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young Child’s life”

11-40 Years was Moses tested in wilderness. Jesus was tested 40 days in the wilderness.

12-The white hand of leprosy (Exodus 4:6-7). Jesus healed many different people of leprosy (Luke 17:11-19)

13-A mountain was prominent in his work where the law was given for a nation. A mountain was prominent in the work of Jesus. He gave the famous Sermon on the Mountain with the law for people of all nations (Matthew 5, 6, and 7).

14-Was very gracious to foreign women at wells and gave them water (Exodus 2:15-17). Jesus was gracious to the foreign Samaritian woman at Jacob’s well and gave her the Water of Life (John 4).

15-True identity was not known at first to the women at the well (Exodus 2). The true identity of Jesus was not known at first to the woman at the well (John 4).

16-Spoke to the 70 elders of Israel (Ex. 24:1 and Numbers 11). Jesus spoke to the 70 elders (called the Sanhedrin) (Luke 22:70-71).

17-Moses appointed seventy rulers over Israel, Jesus anointed seventy disciples to teach the nations

18-Was almost stoned by his brethren (Ex. 17:4). And Jesus also (John 8:58-59).

19-Fed multitudes of people by miracles (Ex. 16). Jesus fed multitudes (Matt. 14 and 15).

20-12-As Moses stretched his hand over the Red Sea to command it, Jesus rebuked the Sea of Galilee and quieted the waves.

21-Moses wrought many wonders, but it is most striking to observe that his first two miraculous signs were power over the serpent, and power over leprosy (Ex. 4:6-9). So after Christ began His public ministry, we read first of His power over Satan (Matthew 4:10, 11), and then His power over leprosy (Matthew 8:3).

cont…

 

[inJESUS]

22-both gave people bread from Heaven

23-Had sacrifices for the Covenant sealed with blood (Ex. 24:1-8). Jesus also sealed His new Covenant with blood (Hebrews 9:18-28).

24-Provided ransom by pouring out blood as a sacrifice (Ex. 12). Jesus similarly (Matt. 20:28 & Hebrews 9:11-15).

25-Got complaints from the people who had been trained to write (Exodus 5:13-23). Jesus got complaints from the scribes (writers of the law) (Matt. 9:2-8; 16:21; and 21:12-16).

26- Both offered to die on behalf on peoples sins.Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold. Yet now, if Thou wilt forgive their sin—; and if not, blot me, I pray Thee, out of Thy book which Thou hast written" (vv. 31:32). How this reminds us of Him who “having loved His own which were in the world, He loved them unto the end” (John 13:1)

27-Established a memorial custom (Feast of Unleavened Bread and Passover) based on common food elements (Ex. 12). Jesus established the memorial of Himself by a custom utilizing two common food elements of the Feast of Unleavened Bread and Passover (Luke 22:19-20).

28-Both of their faces shone with the glory of heaven - Moses on Mount Sinai and Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration.

29-Moses’ washing his brethren with water. “And Moses brought Aaron and his sons, and washed them with water” (Lev. 8:6).

John 13:5: “After that He poureth water into a basin and began to wash the disciples’ feet”

30:“So Moses finished the work” (Ex. 40:33).
“I have finished the work which Thou gavest Me to do”

read (John 17:4).

31-His Death was for the benefit of God’s people. “It went ill with Moses for their sakes” (Ps. 106:32); “But the Lord was wroth with me for your sakes” (Deut. 3:26).

Jesus’ cross.

 

[planten]

These are very weak resemblances. There is no real matter in them. We need to have some good resemblances. If I say that moses used to eat food. So did Muhammad. Would that be good?? And I can give many more like that. Moses used to walk on his two legs. So did Muhammad.

Please see the struggle and leadership of Muhammad and Moses, and what happened at the end. Clear success against their enemies. They both brought a book Toran and Quran. They both brought a new law. They are both similar in nature. And Quran describes Muhammad as messenger similar to the one who was sent to the Pharoah. That is clear words of the Quran that muhammad is a messenger the like of Moses.

Bible does not say that Jesus is the like of Moses. Can you show any verse stating that?

Also note that Jesus was god too. That puts him out of this race. You cannot say Apples are Oranges.

 

[swariffin]

Prophet Moses (pbuh) brought a law i.e. Mosaic laws.

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) brought a law i.e. Shariah.

What law did Prophet Jesus (pbuh) bring?

The Law of Love (1) You must love God with all your might, and all your capabilities and (2) You must love your fellow human being as you love yourself. No more, no less. No need for detailed law such as your shariah but cover everything and no loop holes for misinterpretation. This is the fundamental law from which all laws are derived, including your shariah.

 

[De_Maria]

These are very weak resemblances.

They are much stronger than any Mohammed can offer.

There is no real matter in them. We need to have some good resemblances. If I say that moses used to eat food. So did Muhammad. Would that be good?? And I can give many more like that. Moses used to walk on his two legs. So did Muhammad.

Moses did write the Law of God.

But Mohammed never finished his book nor did he compile it. He left a mess on the floor which was so bad that Muslims burned it and substituted Uthman’s rescension.

No comparison.

They are both similar in nature.

Because Mohammed copied from the Bible.

And Quran describes Muhammad as messenger similar to the one who was sent to the Pharoah.

But the Quran is a proven work of fiction.

That is clear words of the Quran that muhammad is a messenger the like of Moses.

That is what InJesus has disproved.

Bible does not say that Jesus is the like of Moses. Can you show any verse stating that?

Yes.

John 5
39 Search the scriptures, for you think in them to have life everlasting; and the same are they that give testimony of me.

John 5

46 For if you did believe Moses, you would perhaps believe me also; for he wrote of me.

Also note that Jesus was god too. That puts him out of this race. You cannot say Apples are Oranges.

Jesus is God and Man.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[inJESUS]

These are very weak resemblances.

how so? striking similarities in miracles, covenant , appointing same numbers ecc…i presented 31 similarities, where is the weakness?

There is no real matter in them. We need to have some good resemblances. If I say that moses used to eat food. So did Muhammad. Would that be good?? And I can give many more like that. Moses used to walk on his two legs. So did Muhammad.

 

[inJESUS]

I am still amazed at the idea that Muhammad is the prophet like unto Moses. Moses was fighting for Jews, Muhammad was killing the Jews.When God was promising them a prophet like Moses, He surely was not promising them being killed by that prophet. If Muhammad was not the opposite of Moses, i wonder then what do you call this?

 

[inJESUS]

Is there any Muslim who would like to add something before we dump the thread as the answer is clear to all?

 

[planten]

The Law of Love (1) You must love God with all your might, and all your capabilities and (2) You must love your fellow human being as you love yourself. No more, no less. No need for detailed law such as your shariah but cover everything and no loop holes for misinterpretation. This is the fundamental law from which all laws are derived, including your shariah.

**Please note that Jesus gave no law. Those were some words of advice that any common man would also give to people, i.e. about love. Love of mankind etc. Law is not only love. There come many things under the law. The various dealings with people. The prayers, the cleaniness, the awards and punishments.

Where are these in christianity. Jesus never gave any such thing. At least I do not see any law in bible (new testament).**

 

[planten]

**If Jesus was the prophet like Moses, we do not see even a single example like Moses in Jesus. Moses went and addressed the king (Pharoah). Jesus did nothing of the sort. Moses led his people to freedom from the yoke of slavery. Jesus did nothing of the sort.

The Jews loved MOSES. But jesus was not loved by the Jews. The Jews were not happy with Jesus. They killed him. If Jesus was the like of Moses then Jews would have known it before any one else. That proves Jesus was not the like of Moses.

But they (the Jews) denied him and abused him. I feel that Jesus was never the like of Moses. Please show me any verse of your bible which says that Jesus was the like of Moses. There is not such thing in bible.

The Jews were waiting for three persons and none of them was to be a god at all. 1. Elias. 2. Messiah. 3. The Prophet. All these three persons were different. If Jesus was the Messiah then he was not that prophet. He denied being that prophet (please see John ch.1 verse 21.) Easy proof !! Jesus was only the Messiah. Please think over.**

 

[inJESUS]

**Please note that Jesus gave no law. Those were some words of advice that any common man would also give to people, i.e. about love. Love of mankind etc. Law is not only love. There come many things under the law. The various dealings with people. The prayers, the cleaniness, the awards and punishments.

Where are these in christianity. Jesus never gave any such thing. At least I do not see any law in bible (new testament).**

Jesus said exactly the opposite of what you’re saying…and the Pharisee said exactly what you’re saying to Jesus, when He replies : you hypocrite, you clean the outside of the dish when the inside is dirty. In other words, be clean from the inside is what matters to God…

as to prayers, we are not robots who pray at specific times…we must pray all the time, in any position we want , on kneels, standing ecc

Jesus answered all these questions in His way, by giving the spirit of the Law…
The Law preached by Jesus goes to the depth of its spirituality. Words kill, but the Spirit gives life…

so if you expect Jesus to say : eat this, dont eat that, wear this don’t wear that, then an afraid you missed a great deal of His message which is mainly about Loving God and loving others…this will make God happy, not what you eat or what clothes you put on or how you pray and how you cleanse yourself…

the Law is made for man, not the man for the Law, which is the opposite of what you were taught.