Prophet Mohammad PBUH: the angels are created from light

[Flame_of_Christ]

That was a good reply by the Salve of God (Abd Allah)

**Dear Flame of Christ, please note that Quran does not teach that Jesus had no human father. That may be an implied meaning (idea). But nowhere did the Quran say that Jesus had no father. The prophet also never said such a thing. So we do not believe that Jesus had no human father.

If we do that then we will be misguided in the same way as the christians who took wrong meaning (derived meanings) of things and went far astray. We need not say that Jesus had a father. But at the same time we are not obliged to believe that Jesus had no father.

Your question is a double statement. First we should confirm that Jesus had no father. Then we can proceed with other questions on that subject about why he had no father… Quran does not say that Jesus had no father. Quran tells about the marriage (Look after=Kifaalat) of Mary and her virginity, pious life.

Quran tells about the hopelessness of Mary regarding marriage. Then it goes to tell us that she was informed about a high ranking son who would be a messenger to the children of Israel. That news was given to Mary ( care of an angel) long before she had any idea or hope of her marriage.

Then God arranged her marriage and selected the best man (Joseph) as her husband. In other words God arranged her marriage and provided all the necessities. That is all according to the Quran. I do not know any other lady whose marriage was arranged (husband selected) by God.

Quran tells us that Jesus was son of Mary (Maryam). He is not mentioned as son of God. So we do not say that Jesus is son of God.

Why Jesus is mentioned as son of Mary?

The reason is that Joseph was an old man (much older than Mary) and he probably died very soon after marriage to Mary. He was not a well known high ranking spiritual person. ONly Mary was high ranking and blessed person. God talked to Mary, never talked to Joseph. The one who gets the message from God has the high rank. Mary had that rank and a pure excellent background as a servant of God in the Temple for many years, under the care of zakariyya a.s.

The men of God are related to the high ranking spiritual persons, not to any other person. So even if Joseph was the earthly known father of Jesus, Jesus is not mentioned as the son of Jospeh. Jesus is mentioned as the son of Mary.

More later… if required.**

I do realize that muslims look upon the Blessed Virgin as a unique person, and very special in God’s eyes. I am glad to hear that, because Catholics do as well. I think we both agree that Mary gave birth to Jesus while still being a virgin herself, so in that sense, we seem to agree to her having no human relations required to give birth to Jesus Christ.

I would ask at this point, What does the Koran say about the prophecy of the messiah that is given in the book of Genesis? It mentions the offspring of the woman who would do battle with the serpent (Gen 3:15). We understand this serpent to be the devil himself. Since it seems that the koran views Jesus as the messiah, does the koran also mention this prophecy and its fullfillment in Jesus being the one who destroys the devil and his works?

What I really want to know is whether or not Jesus is the messiah for muslims as well. And being the “messiah”, is he the one who saves humanity from the devil, as was prophesized in the book of Genesis?

I am wondering, calling Jesus the messiah, do you believe that Jesus is the Savior?

what does messiah mean to a muslim?

 

[planten]

I do realize that muslims look upon the Blessed Virgin as a unique person, and very special in God’s eyes. I am glad to hear that, because Catholics do as well. I think we both agree that Mary gave birth to Jesus while still being a virgin herself, so in that sense, we seem to agree to her having no human relations required to give birth to Jesus Christ.

That may need some discussion about the meaning of a virgin. I ask you about a lady who had never seen any man befor eher marriage. She met her husband and became pregnant. She gave birth to a son. Would you call that a virgin birth or not? I mean if any one is virgin till she met her husband, would you not consider that lady as a virgin for life?? Please be real and give some kind of credit to that good lady.

But I believe you have a different unreal concept of a virgin. So be it for you only.

I would ask at this point, What does the Koran say about the prophecy of the messiah that is given in the book of Genesis? It mentions the offspring of the woman who would do battle with the serpent (Gen 3:15). We understand this serpent to be the devil himself. Since it seems that the koran views Jesus as the messiah, does the koran also mention this prophecy and its fullfillment in Jesus being the one who destroys the devil and his works?

I cannot remember the prophecy in Genesis. You should have posted it. But the Quran calls Jesus as The Messiah. And we Muslism understand that the Jews had been promised a Messiah. Quran tells us that Jesus was that Messiah. Jews did not recognise him. They vehemently rejected him and sought to kill him.

Of course the Messiah i.e. Jesus had come to destroy the Devil and he did it very well. He shook the roots of the devils ( the enemies of Jesus) of his time and they were all later defeated by the followers of Jesus.

There is a clear verse in the Quran which says to the Muslims as follows:

**"O believers, be helpers in the way of Allah as said Jesus to his Apostles "Who is my helper in the way of Allah. The Apostles said “We are the helpers in the way of Allah (God).”

So a section of the children of Israel believed (in Jesus) and a section vehemently disbelieved and rejected Jesus.
So We aided those who believed against their enemies and so they prevailed upon their enemies (Overcame the enemies of Jesus)**. Al-Quran chapter 61 verse 14 (last verse of chapter 61).

What I really want to know is whether or not Jesus is the messiah for muslims as well. And being the “messiah”, is he the one who saves humanity from the devil, as was prophesized in the book of Genesis?

I am wondering, calling Jesus the messiah, do you believe that Jesus is the Savior?

what does messiah mean to a muslim?

Yes, Jesus is the Messiah. He is primarily the promised Messiah of the Jews. We Muslims believe that he was a true messenger / prophet of God. His teachings were correct and if the christians follow his real original teachings and be peaceful persons ( even if they do not believe in Muhammad) they will have no fear of anything of the past and will not be sorry for anything of the future.

Messiah means to us as a prophet / Messenger of God. That is not a mean status. It is the highest that any man could achieve. We Muslims do not need to follow the teachings of Jesus because his teachings are well accommodated and taken care of in the Quran.

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

That may need some discussion about the meaning of a virgin. I ask you about a lady who had never seen any man befor eher marriage. She met her husband and became pregnant. She gave birth to a son. Would you call that a virgin birth or not? I mean if any one is virgin till she met her husband, would you not consider that lady as a virgin for life?? Please be real and give some kind of credit to that good lady.

But I believe you have a different unreal concept of a virgin. So be it for you only.

I cannot remember the prophecy in Genesis. You should have posted it. But the Quran calls Jesus as The Messiah. And we Muslism understand that the Jews had been promised a Messiah. Quran tells us that Jesus was that Messiah. Jews did not recognise him. They vehemently rejected him and sought to kill him.

Of course the Messiah i.e. Jesus had come to destroy the Devil and he did it very well. He shook the roots of the devils ( the enemies of Jesus) of his time and they were all later defeated by the followers of Jesus.

There is a clear verse in the Quran which says to the Muslims as follows:

"O believers, be helpers inteh way of Allah as said Jesus to his Apostles "Who is my helper in the way of Allah. The Apostles said “We are the helpers in the way of Allah (God).”

So a section of the children of Israel believed (in Jesus) and a section vehemently disbelieved and rejected Jesus.
So We aided thos ewho believed against their enemies and so they prevailed upon their enemies (Overcame the enemies of Jesus). Al-Quran chapter 61 verse 14 (last verse of chapter 61).

What I really want to know is whether or not Jesus is the messiah for muslims as well. And being the “messiah”, is he the one who saves humanity from the devil, as was prophesized in the book of Genesis?

I am wondering, calling Jesus the messiah, do you believe that Jesus is the Savior?

what does messiah mean to a muslim?

I cannot remember the prophecy in Genesis. You should have posted it. But the Quran calls Jesus as The Messiah. And we Muslism understand that the Jews had been promised a Messiah. Quran tells us that Jesus was that Messiah.

the prophecy from Genesis is this (God speaking to the devil):
“I will put emnity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel.”

Do you think that Jesus is the messiah planten? I do. In fact, in my life even now, Jesus has been my savior from the forces of evil, he is the messaih for me. Would a muslim ask Jesus to be a destroyer of the devil for them even now in this life? I can tell you honestly, he can destroy the devil for you.

He truly is the messiah, its full meaning!

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

That may need some discussion about the meaning of a virgin. I ask you about a lady who had never seen any man befor eher marriage. She met her husband and became pregnant. She gave birth to a son. Would you call that a virgin birth or not? I mean if any one is virgin till she met her husband, would you not consider that lady as a virgin for life?? Please be real and give some kind of credit to that good lady.

But I believe you have a different unreal concept of a virgin. So be it for you only.

I guess yes I do. I was told that muslims believed that Mary gave birth to Jesus while still being a virgin herself. It is called the virgin birth.

Yes, Jesus is the Messiah. He is primarily the promised Messiah of the Jews. We Muslims believe that he was a true messenger / prophet of God. His teachings were correct and if the christians follow his real original teachings and be peaceful persons ( even if they do not believe in Muhammad) they will have no fear of anything of the past and will not be sorry for anything of the future.

Messiah means to us as a prophet / Messenger of God. That is not a mean status. It is the highest that any man could achieve. We Muslims do not need to follow the teachings of Jesus because his teachings are well accommodated and taken care of in the Quran.

I do understand that muslims accept Jesus as a prophet. But from what I have heard, each prophet in Islam has a particular role to play. And Jesus’ role is the Messiah. From what I have understood, islam claims taht He is the messiah for all people, not just jews.

This is because Jesus is the only Messiah according to Islam. or is anyone else the Messiah in the koran?

Isn’t that true?

 

[elwill]

the prophecy from Genesis is this (God speaking to the devil):
“I will put emnity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel.”

Do you think that Jesus is the messiah planten? I do. In fact, in my life even now, Jesus has been my savior from the forces of evil, he is the messaih for me. Would a muslim ask Jesus to be a destroyer of the devil for them even now in this life? I can tell you honestly, he can destroy the devil for you.

He truly is the messiah, its full meaning!

what is the context of your prophecy ?
i think that God here talking with satan refering to eve and her spring , this discussion happened before adam (pbuh) and eve descend to the earth
i just want to read it in it’s context to be sure

thanx

 

[elwill]

I guess yes I do. I was told that muslims believed that Mary gave birth to Jesus while still being a virgin herself. It is called the virgin birth.

yes , i believe so

I do understand that muslims accept Jesus as a prophet. But from what I have heard, each prophet in Islam has a particular role to play. And Jesus’ role is the Messiah. From what I have understood, islam claims taht He is the messiah for all people, not just jews.

This is because Jesus is the only Messiah according to Islam. or is anyone else the Messiah in the koran?

Isn’t that true?

can i share my personal view
i think that quran refered to jesus only as the massaih , because he is the last massiah be sent to the jews and for this reason only jews were waiting this one , or this massaih .
massiah is common word in hebrew and be used for many persons before jesus (pbuh)

Messiah (Hebrew: משיח‎; mashiah, moshiah, mashiach, or moshiach, (“anointed [one]”) is a term used in the Hebrew Bible to describe priests and kings, who were traditionally anointed. For example, Cyrus the Great, the king of Persia, is referred to as “God’s anointed” (Messiah) in the Bible.

from prespective of arabic languge
Jesus Christ is called Al-Masseeh المسيح which means the-wiper or the-Rubber as he used to wipe on the eye of the blind to recover their eyesight and also used to wipe on those infected with leprosy to cure them.

 

[John7]

angels are created from light ???

No. the truth is found in

Hebrews 1:13…of the angels…14 Are they not all ministering spirits…"

angels are ministering spirits not ministering photons

 

[a_slave_of_God]

yes , i believe so

can i share my personal view
i think that quran refered to jesus only as the massaih , because he is the last massiah be sent to the jews and for this reason only jews were waiting this one , or this massaih .
massiah is common word in hebrew and be used for many persons before jesus (pbuh)

Messiah (Hebrew: משיח‎; mashiah, moshiah, mashiach, or moshiach, (“anointed [one]”) is a term used in the Hebrew Bible to describe priests and kings, who were traditionally anointed. For example, Cyrus the Great, the king of Persia, is referred to as “God’s anointed” (Messiah) in the Bible.

from prespective of arabic languge
Jesus Christ is called Al-Masseeh المسيح which means the-wiper or the-Rubber as he used to wipe on the eye of the blind to recover their eyesight and also used to wipe on those infected with leprosy to cure them.

Hi elwill,
welcome to the forum.

 

[Tezza]

Wow. Ok.

I’ve been sitting back reading the debates flying on some of the threads between Muslims and Christians. Needless to say, I know VERY LITTLE about Islam except what I heard on t.v. in the spirit of ecumenism…we, Christians, Jews, and Muslims worship the same God, albeit Christians have a more complete picture of the One True God, and that should unite us.

I’m starting to doubt that sentiment.

I can see Christians believing that, but it appears Muslims would accuse us of worshiping a man, thus we are not due any respect as believers of the One True God.

Since Muslims respect Jesus as a prophet, how do they deal with the fact that he called himself God (I AM)? How can you respect anyone who blasphemes in this way?

"Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM”.
John 8:58

Also, the verse in Genesis when God refers to Himself in the plural form?

"Then God said: “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.”
Gen 1:26

*"The the Lord God said: * “See! The man has become like one of us, knowing what is good and what is bad!” Gen 3:22

Do you disregard these verses because you believe the Bible is corrupt?

I’m sure this has all been answered somewhere else, but could someone fill me in real quick?

Thanks.

Peace in Christ,
Teri

“God has assigned as a duty to every man the dignity of every woman.” Pope John Paul II

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I found this in one of the forums and I would like to share it with you.

Originally Posted by elwill:

This is slightly off topic, but, in Islam, are angels mortal in any sense ?​

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

yes , i believe so

can i share my personal view
i think that quran refered to jesus only as the massaih , because he is the last massiah be sent to the jews and for this reason only jews were waiting this one , or this massaih .
massiah is common word in hebrew and be used for many persons before jesus (pbuh)

Messiah (Hebrew: משיח‎; mashiah, moshiah, mashiach, or moshiach, (“anointed [one]”) is a term used in the Hebrew Bible to describe priests and kings, who were traditionally anointed. For example, Cyrus the Great, the king of Persia, is referred to as “God’s anointed” (Messiah) in the Bible.

from prespective of arabic languge
Jesus Christ is called Al-Masseeh المسيح which means the-wiper or the-Rubber as he used to wipe on the eye of the blind to recover their eyesight and also used to wipe on those infected with leprosy to cure them.

Thanks for your comments elwill. I guess what I am trying to get at is what muslims think of Jesus. but not just that, what the koran teaches about him.

From what I heard, each prophet according to islam (Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad and maybe one or two others) have a certain role. Okay I can see how islam wants to accept Jesus as a prophet but I noticed that he is specifically called the messiah. And this from Islam. So is Jesus not messiah for all people?

I am confused on why islam wants to call Jesus the messiah and that it also recognizes him as the only person ever to be born of a virgin. Of course I agree that he is both someone very unique to us and also that he is the Messiah. After all, Jesus said “I am the light of the world, whoever follows me will have the light of life.” and that “I came so that you might have life and have it in abundance.”

So yes, Jesus is the messiah! He bring us out of darkness, as you mentioned from the koran verse about opening people’s eyes, (Messiah) and also, Jesus gives life.

If you would like to know him more, let me know and we can share!