Prophet Mohammed

[hawk]

I would like to apologise for the previous thread, I can see how it could be construed as offensive.
I would also add, that my intentions were not the best, when I posted it.

Having said that, I think it would be helpful for christians to understand why muslims consider Mohammed a prophet of God.

I would like my muslim brothers and sisters to explain the reason for this belief.

Thank you.

In the Peace of Christ.

Aasim

 

[Joseph_Alison]

hawk:

I would like to apologise for the previous thread, I can see how it could be construed as offensive.
I would also add, that my intentions were not the best, when I posted it.

Having said that, I think it would be helpful for christians to understand why muslims consider Mohammed a prophet of God.

I would like my muslim brothers and sisters to explain the reason for this belief.

Thank you.

In the Peace of Christ.

Aasim

Salaam Friend Aasim;
Thank you for coming to better feelings and thank you for apologizing; these are signs of a couragous person.

It is only when we treat each other with respect that we can have a constructive dialog.

Friend Aasim;
You –and our Christian Friends- would expect us to quote from the holy Qur’an to support our claims concerning Muhammad (PBUH), this is in exactly the same way our Christian friends do quote from the Bible to support theirs concerning Christianity issues. When this principle is accepted, you –and our Christian Friends- will discover (I think you already did) that Christians as well as Muslims, all base their beliefs on a book, it then all boils down to which book is telling the truth; especially when it comes to the most crucial issue of who God is and what is His nature.

Friend Aasim;
It is very easy to show you and our Christian Friends that Muhammad (PBUH) according to the Qur’an is indeed a prophet from Allah (SWT); those who tried – and still try- to dismiss his prophet-hood understood very well that fact and that’s the very reason why they concentrate all their efforts in disproving the holy Qur’an.

Our Christian Friends see Islam as a religion built on Christianity and Judaism using Christian and Jewish sources and we see it as a culmination of all Allah’s (SWT) message to humanity all the way from Adam (PBUH).

So, why do we believe Muhammad (PBUH) is a prophet? Because Muhammad (PBUH) is proclaimed to be prophet from the Creator: “Say: “O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth: there is no god but He: it is He That giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Unlettered Prophet, who believeth in Allah and His words: follow him that (so) ye may be guided.”” (Qur’an 7:158)

After reading the above verse (and it is not the only one where the prophet-hood of Muhammad (PBUH) is proclaimed) and when looking at the whole message delivered by Muhammad (PBUH), we are left with two options:
1- Muhammad (PBUH) was what the Qur’an tells of him to be.
2- Muhammad was an impostor in the sense that what he said was not the truth
So far we found nothing that indicates he was an impostor, we firmly believe the Qur’an to be from the Creator of mankind, which naturally make Muhammad (PBUH) what the Qur’an says about him, namely a prophet and a messenger from Allah (SWT) to mankind.

Salaam.
Joseph.

 

[Ghosty]

Peace be with you, Joseph_Alison.

When this principle is accepted, you –and our Christian Friends- will discover (I think you already did) that Christians as well as Muslims, all base their beliefs on a book, it then all boils down to which book is telling the truth; especially when it comes to the most crucial issue of who God is and what is His nature.

This is a bit off topic, but I want to address this because it is necessary for Muslims to understand how Catholics approach our own faith so they can better explain theirs to us.

Catholics do not, contrary to what’s expressed here, base their belief in Jesus off of the Bible. In fact, we base our belief in the Bible on the oral testimony of the Apostles, and the non-Scriptural, and even non-Christian, accounts of what the Apostles taught. The Bible is the result of Christian belief, not the cause of it. The Catholic Church existed before any of the Bible was written down, and this is attested to by historical records, espescially Jewish ones.

Understanding this will help Muslims explain their faith to us in a way we can understand and relate to. Expressing it in terms of “you believe in a book, we believe in a book” will not reach Catholics at all. That view is actually considered gravely heretical by the Church, and is the reason why we are seperated from the Protestants.

Hopefully you will be able to explain the source of your faith without resorting to using the Quran, because that will not be accepted as a valid approach, even for Christians.

That being said, I’m very interested in hearing this and learning about Islam. I just don’t want to see this thread degenerate quickly as Catholics jump down your throat for presenting a “sola scriptura” explaination.

God bless!

 

[Joseph_Alison]

Ghosty:

Peace be with you, Joseph_Alison.

This is a bit off topic, but I want to address this because it is necessary for Muslims to understand how Catholics approach our own faith so they can better explain theirs to us.

Catholics do not, contrary to what’s expressed here, base their belief in Jesus off of the Bible. In fact, we base our belief in the Bible on the oral testimony of the Apostles, and the non-Scriptural, and even non-Christian, accounts of what the Apostles taught. The Bible is the result of Christian belief, not the cause of it. The Catholic Church existed before any of the Bible was written down, and this is attested to by historical records, espescially Jewish ones.

Understanding this will help Muslims explain their faith to us in a way we can understand and relate to. Expressing it in terms of “you believe in a book, we believe in a book” will not reach Catholics at all. That view is actually considered gravely heretical by the Church, and is the reason why we are seperated from the Protestants.

Hopefully you will be able to explain the source of your faith without resorting to using the Quran, because that will not be accepted as a valid approach, even for Christians.

That being said, I’m very interested in hearing this and learning about Islam. I just don’t want to see this thread degenerate quickly as Catholics jump down your throat for presenting a “sola scriptura” explaination.

God bless!

Salaam Friend Ghosty;
Nowhere I wrote that Catholics base **ALL **their beliefs on the Bible, what I wrote is :“Christians as well as Muslims, all base their beliefs on a book” which is still true. I am aware that “Scripture alone” or “Sola scriptura” is a protestant doctrine.

“Before Magisterium and Scripture there was Tradition, to which the other two are necessarily and intrinsically linked” Source here

Friend Ghosty, when discussing with non-Christians about your beliefs, do you quote Sacred Tradition? Do you quote from Catechism? Do you quote the sayings or writings of Catholic Popes and Saints?

When, in the thread “Doesn’t Allah know what Catholics believe?” I made the following statement: “St. Alphonsus Ligouri had the firm belief that his requests through Mary had more changes to be granted and he gave the reason "Because God has thus decreed to honor His Mother" and I commented "how does he know is what I am struggling to grasp” Your reply to me was: “*Because he is Catholic, and *raised deeply in our Scriptures. The first miracle of Jesus’ was done because His mother asked first. St. Alphonsus is referring to this incident in John 2:1-9” . And when I stated that there were no indications in the Bible about many of the titles given to the devout Mary, you quoted verses from the Bible to support your claims, I did not comment on your reply then, simply because I felt since you found scriptural justifications which satisfy you, therefore I had no right to give my own interpretation of the verses you quoted.

So whether the Bible is as you mentioned: “The result of Christian belief, not the cause of it” to me as a Muslim it does not really matter; it matters however when the Bible is quoted by Catholics to support any theological claim and that’s exactly what they do when discussing with non-Catholics. Sacred tradition is one of the pillars of the Church, but Catholics often resort to Sacred Scripture –another pillar- when arguing with non-Catholics.

Friend Ghosty;
That was a nice try from you to dismiss the Qur’an from being quoted to support Muslims claim about the prophet-hood of Muhammad (PBUH).

Salaam.
Joseph.

 

[exoflare]

Even though I was about to say the same thing as Ghosty, I’ll just let him defend his own reply. But I do have some observations for you. Here we have your explanation of why Mohammed is a true messenger from God, based on two arguments you provide to support your conclusion:

Joseph_Alison:

So far we found nothing that indicates he was an impostor, we firmly believe the Qur’an to be from the Creator of mankind, which naturally make Muhammad (PBUH) what the Qur’an says about him, namely a prophet and a messenger from Allah (SWT) to mankind.

So then basically what we have is this:

*1) So far we found nothing that indicates he was an impostor.
2) We (Muslims) firmly believe the Quran to be from God.​

Conclusion: Therefore, naturally Mohammed a true messenger from God.*

In argument 1, you’re just denying the antecedant of the argument “If we find evidence that he is an impostor, then he is an impostor”. Lack of positive proof (if that were even the case) still does not provide evidence to the contrary.

Argument 2 just states that you believe something, and therefore it must be true. This won’t wash.

The question at hand, then, “Is Mohammed a true messenger from God?” is still left completely out in the open with no support for either conclusion.

 

[Ghosty]

Joseph_Alison: If all you mean is that Catholics draw support for their beliefs from the Bible, then you’d be correct and I apologize for misunderstanding.

Friend Ghosty, when discussing with non-Christians about your beliefs, do you quote Sacred Tradition? Do you quote from Catechism? Do you quote the sayings or writings of Catholic Popes and Saints?

When it comes to whether or not Catholicism is true, then I quote non-Catholic, and/or non-Scriptural historical records, as do most Catholics and the Church in general. We only use Scripture when a written reference to what we say is Tradition is needed. If you look at this very website (at the home page, not the forums) you will find that what is most often cited is actually the writings of who we call the “Church Fathers”. Catholics do not believe that the Bible can be used to settle debates on its own.

We do tend to rely on it heavily when dealing with people who believe in Sola Scriptura, like Protestants, simply because most of their beliefs are directly contradicted by the very Scriptures they claim as the sole rule of faith, and they refuse to accept any kind of historical evidence outside of Scripture. We also use it when it is sufficient to demonstrate a point we are making about our beliefs, because the Bible is the most easily accessible work of Tradition for non-Catholics. This has been the case with much of the threads on this Islam forum.

When discussing whether or not to actually believe in Jesus, however, or whether or not to even believe in what the Scriptures say, we do not use Scripture as our primary support because we frankly don’t believe Scripture is capable of supporting those arguments on its own. We feel the same about other “scriptures” and “messengers” too. If you want to convince us of Mohammed and the Quran, for example, you’d have to use support from outside of the Quran and Mohammed’s own words for Catholics to even begin to find a convincing argument in what you say.

When you say:

So, why do we believe Muhammad (PBUH) is a prophet? Because Muhammad (PBUH) is proclaimed to be prophet from the Creator: “Say: “O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth: there is no god but He: it is He That giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Unlettered Prophet, who believeth in Allah and His words: follow him that (so) ye may be guided.”” (Qur’an 7:158)

Catholics will not regard that as anything at all, and not just because we don’t accept the Quran as Scripture. The problem with that passage is that it comes from Mohammed anyway, since he brought the Quran. For the same reason, we don’t, and the early Christians didn’t, believe in the divinity of Jesus simply because He said He was God. On the contrary, we look up the prophesies pertaining to the Messiah and see such labels as Immanuel (God With Us) in order to determine if what He said was justified. This is even built right into the New Testament, for example when it records that Jesus said “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?” Jesus was not pleading with God, but quoting Psalm 22, which describes a crucifixion identical to the one Jesus is experiencing.

It basically comes down to this: you can’t support the claims of a man simply by his own testimony. This is heavily rooted for us Catholics, who reject any such testimony as the basis for an argument.

All that being said, I’m sure you have more information to give. Again I just wanted to point out, and clarify, why we will not accept quotes from the Quran as the primary basis of faith in Mohammed as a Prophet.

 

[r.gonzales]

i posted this in the other thread that got locked.

signs of prophethood:

Bahira the Monk

When the Messenger of Allâh (Peace be upon him) was twelve years old, he went with his uncle Abu Talib on a business journey to Syria. When they reached Busra (which was a part of Syria, in the vicinity of Howran under the Roman domain) they met a monk called Bahira (his real name was Georges), who showed great kindness, and entertained them lavishly. He had never been in the habit of receiving or entertaining them before. He readily enough recognized the Prophet (Peace be upon him) and said while taking his hand: “This is the master of all humans. Allâh will send him with a Message which will be a mercy to all beings.” Abu Talib asked: “How do you know that?” He replied: “When you appeared from the direction of ‘Aqabah, all stones and trees prostrated themselves, which they never do except for a Prophet. I can recognize him also by the seal of Prophethood which is below his shoulder, like an apple. We have got to learn this from our books.” He also asked Abu Talib to send the boy back to Makkah and not to take him to Syria for fear of the Jews. Abu Talib obeyed and sent him back to Makkah with some of his men servants.

source: the sealed nectar.

narrated salmaan al-faarisee, companion of prophet muhammad, about his first encounters with prophet muhammad and the signs of prophethood he witnessed from him:

"On that evening I went to see the Messenger of Allah while he was in Qibaa. I took with me something I had saved. I went in and said: ‘I was told you are a righteous man and that your company (who) are strangers (here) are in need, and I want to offer you something I saved as charity. I found that you deserve it more than anyone else’. Salman said: 'I offered it to him; he said to his companions: 'eat, and he kept his hand off (i.e., did not eat). 'I said to myself: ‘this is one (i.e., one of the signs about his Prophethood.)’.

Following this encounter with the Prophet (PPBU), Salman left to prepare for another test! This time he brought a gift and visited the Prophet (PPBU) in Medinah. 'I saw that you don’t eat from the charity, here is a gift that I wanted to honor you with. The Prophet (PPBU) ate from it and ordered his companions to do the same which they did. I said to myself: 'Now they are two (i.e., two of the Prophet’s signs came true).

On the third encounter, Salman came to Baqee’ Al-Gharqad (The Burial site of the Prophet’s companions) where the Prophet (PPBU) was sharing in a funeral of one of his companions. Salman said: 'I greeted him (with the Islamic Salaam: Peace be upon you) then I moved towards his back attempting to se the seal of (Prophethood) that was described to me by my friend. When he (PPBU) saw me (doing so) he knew that I was trying to confirm something described to me. He took the garment off his back and I looked at the seal. I recognized it. I came down on it kissing it and crying. The Messenger of Allah told me to move around (i.e., talk to him). I told him my story as I did with your Ibin Abbas (remember that Salman is telling his story to Ibin Abbass). He (the Prophet-PPBU) liked to tell my story to his companions.

source: the search for the truth by a man known as the persian salman.

as i mentioned in that thread, these are just two eye witness accounts. and there are others…

there is also the lasting miracle that is the Quran, which he was sent with as well as many other signs and miracles indicate prophet muhammad’s truthfulness in being a prophet and messenger sent by Allah to the whole of mankind.

 

[Ghosty]

Where is this seal of prophethood recorded before the time of Mohammed, and which faith believed in this seal?

Thank you for posting things from outside of the Quran, too. That’s very helpful.

 

[Big_Easy_Big]

Jesus, by his acts (miracles), words and deeds, proved that he was the Son of God. Prophets of the old testament proclaimed His coming and, indeed, his life bears witness to those prophets. Modern prophets (John the Baptist) also proclaimed and told of His coming. The Gospels are man’s record of the life, acts, words and deeds of Jesus (and Luke even studied and sought out the “truth” from others)

Let’s now look at Mohammed. The Q’uran is God’s revealed word to Mohammed. Thus we have a situation where Mohammed proclaims himself a prophet since he proclaims God’s revealed word. No others proclaim him a prophet; there is no foretelling of him as a prophet.

Conclusion: prophets of old foretold the coming of the Son of God; a careful study of the life of Jesus reveals the fulfillment of those prophesies; the acts, words and deeds of Jesus uphold the claim that He is God; tradition and scripture after the resurrection and ascension uphold these beliefs. Centuries later we have Mohammed challenging Christianity. While Mohammed certainly sets forth clear and logical insight into God’s plan, nothing of Mohammed refutes Jesus as the Son of God. Jesus is God; Mohammed was a great many with insight into God’s plan; but, Mohammed was wrong regarding Jesus, Christianity and the setting forth of the Muslim religion.

 

[Booklover]

r.gonzales:

there is also the lasting miracle that is the Quran, which he was sent with as well as many other signs and miracles indicate prophet muhammad’s truthfulness in being a prophet and messenger sent by Allah to the whole of mankind.

Here’s a quote from one of the eyewitness accounts that you posted:

“This is the master of all humans. Allâh will send him with a Message which will be a mercy to all beings.” Abu Talib asked: “How do you know that?” He replied: “When you appeared from the direction of ‘Aqabah, all stones and trees prostrated themselves, which they never do except for a Prophet. I can recognize him also by the seal of Prophethood which is below his shoulder, like an apple.

Good grief! That sounds like something out of the 1001 Arabian Nights Tales! You don’t expect us to believe that do you?

 

[Faith101]

Booklover:

Here’s a quote from one of the eyewitness accounts that you posted:

Good grief! That sounds like something out of the 1001 Arabian Nights Tales! You don’t expect us to believe that do you?

OH my God thats sooo weird!! some people will believe the weirdest thing. Can you IMAGINE that some people believe that ONE man with ONE stick was able to split the sea in two?!? loool thats soo funny

no waitt.it gets even funnier…some people believe that a VIRGIN woman was able to give birth to a son!! and not only that but this little guy was able to bring the dead to life!!!

some people will beleive anything

sarcasm is INTENTIONAL

booklover…apply the same method of thinking to your own religion…and you will have no religion left.

 

[Booklover]

Faith101:

some people will beleive anything

Yes, you’re right! Imagine believing that a book came from heaven just because a man said so, and according to him it was his only “miracle”.

 

[Faith101]

Booklover:

Yes, you’re right! Imagine believing that a book came from heaven just because a man said so, and according to him it was his only “miracle”.

it wasnt his only miracle. Do you even READ the posts?

You so easily believe various miracles that Jesus, Moses, Abraham and all the messengers have done (peace be upon them all) but adamantly reject the miracles of Mohamed…calling them arabian night tales.

Be a little open minded.

p.s. you havent responded to my post? Do you deny the miracles of the messengers?

 

[jcaz]

Let something be clear: Muslims can’t tell Catholics, or other than them, what they believe based on our own beliefs. Similarly, Catholics cannot tell Muslims what they believe based on Catholic belief. One cannot impose his/her beliefs on another religion when trying to understand it. So if you want to understand a religion, it must be done so from within the context of thier belief system. You DO NOT have to agree with the belief system; but you cannot intelligently explain another religion’s beliefs using your own foundational belief system.

With regards to what can and cannot be used for evidence, this is HUGE difference between Muslims and Catholics. When a Muslim comes along and says something, we ask him, “where is your evidence?” Show us from the Quraan or the Sunnah where the evidence for this statement is. Then there is the ijtihaad of the scholars, where they, when presented with a question, make a fatwa based on the Quraan and the Sunnah, and their own interpretation of them. An example, which was briefly discussed on another thread, was smoking. There is no definitive statement in the Quraan or in the ahaadeeth that says smoking is haraam. However, the majority of scholars agree the smoking is haraam and this is based on various ayaat from the Quraan and statements of the Prophet, sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallam, that lead them to this. However, in Islaam, we do NOT follow the words of any men. We follow the Quraan and the Sunnah.

Whereas, in Catholicism, you do not belief that your beliefs are limited to the Bible. Rather, as you know, perhaps better than I, that your beliefs come from a variety of sources, including each and every new pope. Muslims may disagree with this, FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE. We may think it is crazy. BUT, it is your belief! You may feel it is unthinkable to only follow the book of God and the statements of his messenger, from your perspective. But this is our belief.

When discussing whether or not to actually believe in Jesus, however, or whether or not to even believe in what the Scriptures say, we do not use Scripture as our primary support because we frankly don’t believe Scripture is capable of supporting those arguments on its own.

The explanation given above addresses your statement. You may not believe your scripture is “capable of supporting those arguments”. But we know that ours is. You will surely differ. We will have to agree to disagree.

The following is some nice text that I got from a website:

---

Ask For A Sign

What signs?? They mean some special kinds of signs or miracles such as their own foolish minds dictate. Everything is possible for God, but God is not going to humour the follies of men or listen to their false demands. He has sent his messenger to explain his signs clearly, and to warn them of the consequences of rejection. Is that not enough? The trend of their demand is generally as follows:

In specific terms they asked that he - Muhammad (pbuh) - ‘Put a ladder up to heaven an bring down a book from God in their very sight’ - “Then we would believe,” they said. Or "ye see the mountain yonder, turn it into gold’ - “then we would believe.” or ‘make streams to gush out in the desert’ - “then we would believe.”

Now listen to the soft, sweet reasoning of Muhammad (pbuh) against the unreasonable and sceptical demands of the mushriks - “Do I say to you, verily I am an angel? Do I say to you, verily in my hands are the treasures of God? Only, what is revealed to me do I follow.” Listen further to the most dignified reply he is commanded by his Lord to give the unbelievers.

“Say (O Muhammad): 'The signs (miracles) are indeed with Allah:
And most certainly I am only a clear warner!”

In the following ayah the holy prophet is made to point to the holy Qur’an itself as an answer to their hypocritical demand for some special kind of ‘sign’ of ‘miracle’ for which their foolish pagan mentality craved. For indeed all miracles are ‘signs’; and it is their disbelief, their scepticism, their lack of faith which motivates their request for a sign. They are asked to - ‘look at the Qur’an’ and again, ‘look at the Qur’an!’

It is not enough for them that we have sent down to thee (O Muhammad) the book (al-Qur’an) which is rehearsed to them? Verily, in it (this perspicuous book) is a mercy and reminder to those who believe. [Qur’an 29:51].

---

Allaah says in the Quraan:

“Verily, here (in Qur’an) are signs (miracles) self-evident in the hearts of those endowed with knowledge and none but the unjust shall reject our signs (miracles).”

 

[jcaz]

MUSIM POSTERS:

wa baarakallaahu feekum. Let us not be so quick to succumb to the desires of the other posters. They may argue that the Quraan doesn’t count and is not good enough for them, because their book is not good enough for them also; that is their problem.

The Quraan IS good enough as a proof. Allaah’s word is good enough as a proof, and this is why He Himself made challenges in the Quraan to those who arrogantly choose to disbelieve.

So if they want other evidences, we, by the help of Allaah, can give them other evidences, BUT THIS IS FOR THEM. Because for us, all we need is the Quraan, as it testifies and witnesses to its truthfulness!

 

[jcaz]

It basically comes down to this: you can’t support the claims of a man simply by his own testimony. This is heavily rooted for us Catholics, who reject any such testimony as the basis for an argument.

This is your problem, not ours.

On the flipside, let us look at your beliefs FROM YOUR BELIEF PERSPECTIVE. Paul, who never personally knew Jesus, has authored or influenced almost half of the New Testament! He was on the road to Damascus, fell, bumped his head, and made a claim to have a vision from Jesus, sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallam.

HIS TESTIMONY IS TO BE REJECTED by YOU, based on YOUR own statements. And frankly, his testimony is emphatically rejected by us Muslims. So according to your own belief, I am curious to know what “evidence” you use to prove that paul was truthful. Heck, one could say that he was on the road to Atlanta (I-95), car hit a pothole, bumped his head, and had a vision that he was the 14th apostle of Jesus! What would make him truthful? Would that be any different than Paul’s pothole?

Why believe his testimony?

 

[Ghosty]

Jcaz: My post was to help Muslims in addressing Catholics, and r.gonzales has already used my advice to make a substantial claim. I’m not saying that Islam has to justify itself to itself in the way I’m describing, only that when discussing things with Catholics, if you want us to believe in or understand Mohammed, you have to use such things.

On the flipside, let us look at your beliefs FROM YOUR BELIEF PERSPECTIVE. Paul, who never personally knew Jesus, has authored or influenced almost half of the New Testament! He was on the road to Damascus, fell, bumped his head, and made a claim to have a vision from Jesus, sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallam.

Actually, his claim isn’t believed on his own account, but on the account of those witnesses who were with him, and the testimony of Apostalic Succession and Tradition. His vision was actually what Catholics call a “private revelation”, and would not be considered binding on any of the faithful beyond the person who received it.

Again, as a former Catholic you should know this. The Catechism states:

**67 **Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.
Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such “revelations”.

The only reason the private revelation of Paul’s belongs to the deposit of faith is on account of it being included in Scripture, and Scripture is affirmed by Apostalic Succession. As a vision, however, it is not at all binding on the faithful. It would not even have to be believed if it stood on its own. Paul’s testimony of its account is not at all the reason for it being believed.

 

[r.gonzales]

Booklover:

Good grief! That sounds like something out of the 1001 Arabian Nights Tales! You don’t expect us to believe that do you?

you’re a kaafirah, of course i don’t expect you to believe it. aside from that though, what sounds more far fetched? that stones and trees will prostrate themselves before prophets sent by Allah, or Allah dying???

 

[Genesis315]

jcaz:

The Quraan IS good enough as a proof. Allaah’s word is good enough as a proof, and this is why He Himself made challenges in the Quraan to those who arrogantly choose to disbelieve.

Ok, so lets say I sit down and write a nice consistent book, claim I’m a prophet and that the book is dictated by God. In fact, my book is a theological masterpiece. “God” in my book also makes challenges to those who do not believe in this book. How do we know my work is not dictated by God and Muhammed’s is?

You have to go outside the book to prove it’s veracity.

 

[Ghosty]

r.gonzales: Don’t worry about the unbelief of some. I’m still wondering about where these indicators come from. It would help me a lot to understand.