Prophetical Time

[Bob_Crowley]

**I knew you would end up with either Greek Mythology or Replacement Theology. You ended up with both. I confess I was enjoying the development but…It’s a pity.

What am I doing here if it is not making the true God known to all people? So much so that what I have been doing can be compared to a tree that has produced fruits. And better than Jesus, I bring the knowledge of God to the Gentiles. Jesus would rather warn his disciples NOT to take the good news to the Gentiles. (Mat. 10:6) **

You’re not making the true God known to anybody. All you’re doing is pushing your own opinion, offered without proof, as the antidote to Christ’s own claim to be the Son of God.

As such you’re doomed to failure.

Christ’s own commission to His own disciples was to take the Gospel to the ends of the earth. Left to the Jews it would have stayed in Jerusalem.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Ben Masada;5590413:

Prophetical Time

In the second vision in Daniel 10, the Prophet refers to three full weeks (Dan.10:2) or 21 days (Dan. 10:13) to bring the unknown value of “y” to the arbitrary value of a year. Hence, 21 years, so that the 70 years of the exile must be fulfilled, according to the injunction
that, since 70 weeks had been decreed, 70 years had to be fulfilled. (Dan. 9:2,24)

Gabriel of 12;

Gematria is a fascinating way of scripture interpretations; Ben many here might be interested in what most non catholics spend alot of time on is the number of the beast 666. how do you interpret this number? Is it Kaiser Neron, or is it Solomon? or another?

King David conquered Jerusalem 1003 b.c a thousand years before Jesus Christ was born around 3 a.d. During the Davidic 1000 year reign, The Babylonians captured Jerusalem, then after 70 years of Babylonian captivity, the Persian Empire captures the Babylonians allowing the Jews to return to Jerusalem and rebuild the temple without a Monarchy.

The first temple was built by King Solomon, the second built by Priests under Ezra and Nehemia, when we get to the last 500 years to 20 b.c we find the temple being built a third time by the false prophet King Herod which gets destroyed what another 70? in 70 a.d. But before this 70 temple destruction Jesus comes on the seen and proclaims the Prophet Isaiah 61:1-2, 58:6 in the synagogue being fulfilled in their hearing and claimed the repentance of Israel because the kingdom is at hand (see Luke4:16-19, Mt.4:12-17)

Now tell me did the Jewish prophets get these prophecies right or wrong along the timeline of the 1000 years and the 70 years for the coming Messiah, the Kingdom of God, the New Covenant promised by Jeremiah and others? or do these timelines speak of another timeline that has not yet passed, or were the Jewish prophets wrong. According to Jesus and Christendom the Prophets got it the 1000 years, and the 70 years right.

How do you view the 1000 years with the 70 years of captivity?

I have posted a thread about the 70 week/years of Daniel 9:24-27. It’s the Jewish interpretation to that Jewish prophecy. If you read it, you will have your questions answered. Then, if you have any questions, just bring them for discussion. I’ll be glad to comply.

 

[Ben_Masada]

You’re not making the true God known to anybody. All you’re doing is pushing your own opinion, offered without proof, as the antidote to Christ’s own claim to be the Son of God.

As such you’re doomed to failure.

Christ’s own commission to His own disciples was to take the Gospel to the ends of the earth. Left to the Jews it would have stayed in Jerusalem.

**Jesus never claimed to be the son of God. He was Jewish, and this is not Jewish. Drop the claim that he was Jewish and I’ll vacate my place in this discussion. Make of him a Greek, and I am out.

I don’t think “failure” could be the word to describe me anymore. Two “Messianic Jews” have returned to the true Judaism and nine Gentiles have converted as a result of my work.
Would you call this a failure?

That commission in Matthew 28:19 is not from Jesus. It would be a contradiction to his attitude against Gentiles. If fact, I never understood why. But anyways, that commission was pronounced by the guy who wrote that gospel. Perhaps by Paul, who was the one who introduced baptism in the name of Jesus. (Acts 19:5)

There are several ways for the Jews to bring the knowledge of the true God unto the nations. Through exiles, through helping people in all ways we can, through intellectual development, through hospitals, schools, and last but not least, through what I have been doing from Yerushalaim to you throughout the world. Would you say amen to this?**

 

[Bob_Crowley]

**Jesus never claimed to be the son of God. He was Jewish, and this is not Jewish. Drop the claim that he was Jewish and I’ll vacate my place in this discussion. Make of him a Greek, and I am out.

That commission in Matthew 28:19 is not from Jesus. It would be a contradiction to his attitude against Gentiles. If fact, I never understood why. But anyways, that commission was pronounced by the guy who wrote that gospel. Perhaps by Paul, who was the one who introduced baptism in the name of Jesus. (Acts 19:5)

**

I extracted this from the Catholic Encyclopedia, as I can’t be bothered reinventing the wheel.

Claims that Christ is the Son of God.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

In the New Testament

The title “the Son of God” is frequently applied to Jesus Christ in the Gospels and Epistles. … The angel announced: “He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High… the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God” (Luke 1:32, 35).

Nathaniel, at his first meeting, called Him the Son of God (John 1:49). The devils called Him by the same name, the Jews ironically, and the Apostles after He quelled the storm. In all these cases its meaning was equivalent to the Messias, at least. But much more is implied in the confession of St. Peter, the testimony of the Father, and the words of Jesus Christ.

Confession of St. Peter

We read in Matthew 16:15-16: “Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven.”

The parallel passages have: “Thou art the Christ” (Mark 8:29), “The Christ of God” (Luke 9:20). There can be no doubt that St. Matthew gives the original form of the expression, and that St. Mark and St. Luke in giving “the Christ” (the Messias), instead, used it in the sense in which they understood it when they wrote, viz. as equivalent to “the incarnate Son of God” (see Rose, VI). …

Testimony of the Father

(1) At the Baptism. "And Jesus being baptized, forthwith came out of the water: and lo, the heavens were opened to him: and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him. And behold a voice from heaven, saying, “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased” (Matthew 3:16, 17). “And there came a voice from heaven: Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased” (Mark 1:11; Luke 3:22).

(2) At the Transfiguration. “And lo, a voice out of the cloud saying: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased: hear ye him” (Matthew 17:5; Mark 9:6; Luke 9:35).

Testimony of Jesus Christ (ie. Himself)

(1) The Synoptics. “I ascend to my Father and to your Father” (John 20:17). He always spoke of MY Father, never of OUR Father. He said to the disciples: “Thus then shall YOU pray: Our Father”, etc. He everywhere draws the clearest possible distinction between the way in which God was His Father and in which He was the Father of all creatures. His expressions clearly prove that He claimed to be of the same nature with God; and His claims to Divine Sonship are contained very clearly in the Synoptic Gospels, though not as frequently as in St. John.

“Did you not know, that I must be about my father’s business” (Luke 2:49); “Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me you, that work iniquity” (Matthew 7:21-23).

“Everyone therefore that shall confess me before men, I will also confess him before my Father who is in heaven” (Matthew 10:32). "

At that time Jesus answered and said: I confess to thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them to little ones. Yea, Father; for so hath it seemed good in thy sight. All things are delivered to me by my Father. And no one knoweth the Son, but the Father: neither doth any one know the Father, but the Son, and he to whom it shall please the Son to reveal HIM. Come to me, all you that labour, and are burdened, and I will refresh you" (Matthew 11:25-30; Luke 10:21, 22).

In the parable of the wicked husbandmen the son is distinguished from all other messengers: “Therefore having yet one son, most dear to him; he also sent him unto them last of all, saying: They will reverence my son. But the husbandmen said one to another: This is the heir; come let us kill him” (Mark 12:6). Compare Matthew 22:2, “The kingdom of heaven is likened to a king, who made a marriage for his son.”

In Matthew 17:25, He states that as Son of God He is free from the temple tax. “David therefore himself calleth him Lord, and whence is he then his son?” (Mark 12:37). He is Lord of the angels. He shall come “in the clouds of heaven with much power and majesty. And he shall send his angels” (Matthew 24:30, 31).

He confessed before Caiphas that he was the Son of the blessed God (Mark 14:61-2). “Going therefore, teach ye all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost… and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world” (Matthew 28:19, 20).

(2) St. John’s Gospel. It will not be necessary to give more than a few passages from St. John’s Gospel. “My Father worketh until now; and I work… For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things which he himself doth: and greater works than these will he shew him, that you may wonder. For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and giveth life: so the Son also giveth life to whom he will. For neither doth the Father judge any man, but hath given all judgment to the Son. That all may honour the Son, as they honour the Father” (v, 17, 20-23). “And this is the will of my Father that sent me: that everyone who seeth the Son, and believeth in him, may have life everlasting, and I will raise him up in the last day” (vi, 40). “Father, the hour is come, glorify thy Son, that thy Son may glorify thee… And now glorify thou me, O Father, with thyself, with the glory which I had, before the world was, with thee” (xvi, 1, 5).

(3) St. Paul. St. Paul in the Epistles, which were written much earlier than most of our Gospels, clearly teaches the Divinity of Jesus Christ, and that He was the true Son of God; and it is important to remember that his enemies the Judaizers never dared to attack this teaching, a fact which proves that they could not find the smallest semblance of a discrepancy between his doctrines on this point and that of the other Apostles.

 

[cthulhubryan]

**I knew you would end up with either Greek Mythology or Replacement Theology. You ended up with both. I confess I was enjoying the development but…It’s a pity.

**

This is Ben’s Modus Operandi. If you do not agree with him he accuses you of “replacement theology” which is his way of denying God.

 

[Ben_Masada]

I extracted this from the Catholic Encyclopedia, as I can’t be bothered reinventing the wheel.

Claims that Christ is the Son of God.

You extracted from the Catholic Encyclopedia, claims that Christ is the Son of God! Tell me, is this a joke or you are serious? What’s the difference between the Catholic Encyclopedia and the NT? Even if you had brought to me something on this subject from the Jewish Encyclopedia, I would still have to verify the veracity of the statement. But from the Catholic Encyclopedia! Of course, you are joking!

 

[Ben_Masada]

This is Ben’s Modus Operandi. If you do not agree with him he accuses you of “replacement theology” which is his way of denying God.

You either don’t know the meaning of Replacemeng Theology or you don’t know the meaning of a Jew. Perhaps both. How could a Jew deny God? If it were not for us, the world would never have heard about the true God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. You should be grateful for us.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

You extracted from the Catholic Encyclopedia, claims that Christ is the Son of God! Tell me, is this a joke or you are serious? What’s the difference between the Catholic Encyclopedia and the NT? Even if you had brought to me something on this subject from the Jewish Encyclopedia, I would still have to verify the veracity of the statement. But from the Catholic Encyclopedia! Of course, you are joking!

No, I’m not joking. The verses come from the Gospels themselves, which are the witness to the Jewish disciples in Israel, Jewish to a man, well versed in Jewish thought, who attended Synagogues every week, and Christ occasionally preached in them Himself.

You seem to think you’re the final authority on all things Scriptural. See you later - I haven’t got much time for dishonest stubborness.

 

[Lev23]

You should be grateful for us.

I am very grateful for the Jewish people and the nation of Israel.

Please consider David’s Psalm 110. Psalm 110 affirms the diety of Yeshua and announces His eternal preisthood of Messiah. The Psalm begins with the historical account of Yeshua’s acension into heaven to the Father after His(Yeshua) resurrection and then prophetically looks forward towards His(Yeshua) coming back to Israel.

**Psalm 110
Of David. A psalm.
The LORD says to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”
The LORD will extend your mighty scepter from Zion;
you will rule in the midst of your enemies.

Your troops will be willing 
   on your day of battle. 
   Arrayed in holy majesty, 
   from the womb of the dawn 
   you will receive the dew of your youth. 

The LORD has sworn 
   and will not change his mind: 
   "You are a priest forever, 
   in the order of Melchizedek." 

The Lord is at your right hand; 
   he will crush kings on the day of his wrath. 

He will judge the nations, heaping up the dead 
   and crushing the rulers of the whole earth. 

He will drink from a brook beside the way ; 
   therefore he will lift up his head.**

Ben, let the King of Israel(Yeshua) come into your heart today!

Yeshua has triumphed in every way! It is better now to come to Him today than to play the wait and see game.

 

[cthulhubryan]

You either don’t know the meaning of Replacemeng Theology or you don’t know the meaning of a Jew. Perhaps both. How could a Jew deny God? If it were not for us, the world would never have heard about the true God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. You should be grateful for us.

You are correct as far as you go. But your idea of Replacement Theology (the idea that the Catholic church canceled the covenant between God and the Jews and that the Jew can be the ONLY children of Isaac) is quite out there. No one has suggested that God broke his covenant with the Jews.

It is easy for a Jew to deny God. Do you think that being Jewish means that your DNA prevents you from doing so? Look in the old testament to see how many times the Jews denied God.

God sent his Son to fulfill the covenant. It was the Jews who denied Christ and in doing so denied God. They put Him on a cross and killed him. These are FACTS.

Now is where you jump in with the idea that YOU alone can determine the meaning of scripture and tell us that only YOU can tell us what it means. You will tell us that Jesus could not have claimed divinity because he was a Jew, despite the fact that the old testament foretold His coming.

At this point you again claim that YOU alone can determine the meaning of scripture and that only YOU know what is correct and tell us that the old testament prophecies refer only to the nation of Israel and not to Jesus. Which is hogwash.

It seems that YOU are the one who has no reason in all of this. It is YOU who deny God by denying Christ.

Please stop your loathsome attempts to call anyone who does follow God a bigot or antisemite.

Accept once and for all the Paul was another apostle and is not this big evil guy who “invented” Christianity. The dates for the earliest known copies of the gospels puts your claims to lie.

If you do not wish to follow God (Christ) then fine. Don’t. But who are you to spin your lies and muddy the water to confuse those whom God has called to His Church?

 

[Ben_Masada]

No, I’m not joking. The verses come from the Gospels themselves, which are the witness to the Jewish disciples in Israel, Jewish to a man, well versed in Jewish thought, who attended Synagogues every week, and Christ occasionally preached in them Himself.

You seem to think you’re the final authority on all things Scriptural. See you later - I haven’t got much time for dishonest stubborness.

Well, my friend, there is an enormous difference between the reader and the author of a book. We wrote the Bible for you to read it. What does Isaiah say about this? Take a look at the Isaiah 2:2,3. Whenever the Gentiles want instruction in the Word of God, the address is Zion, the Jewish People. Here with me, you want it to be the other way around. That’s not so.

 

[Ben_Masada]

I am very grateful for the Jewish people and the nation of Israel.

Please consider David’s Psalm 110. Psalm 110 affirms the diety of Yeshua and announces His eternal preisthood of Messiah. The Psalm begins with the historical account of Yeshua’s acension into heaven to the Father after His(Yeshua) resurrection and then prophetically looks forward towards His(Yeshua) coming back to Israel.

**Psalm 110
Of David. A psalm.
The LORD says to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”
The LORD will extend your mighty scepter from Zion;
you will rule in the midst of your enemies.

Your troops will be willing 
   on your day of battle. 
   Arrayed in holy majesty, 
   from the womb of the dawn 
   you will receive the dew of your youth. 

The LORD has sworn 
   and will not change his mind: 
   "You are a priest forever, 
   in the order of Melchizedek." 

The Lord is at your right hand; 
   he will crush kings on the day of his wrath. 

He will judge the nations, heaping up the dead 
   and crushing the rulers of the whole earth. 

He will drink from a brook beside the way ; 
   therefore he will lift up his head.**

Ben, let the King of Israel(Yeshua) come into your heart today!

Yeshua has triumphed in every way! It is better now to come to Him today than to play the wait and see game.

**I understand why you cannot understand. Because when you read the Scriptures, you do it with Christian preconceived notions. If you are ready for the truth about Psalm 110, listen to this.

When David wrote that Psalm it was originally written thus: “The Lord said to me, sit at My right hand until I make of your enemies a footstool for your feet.” That was a Psalm chosen to be chanted in the Temple. It would sound too awkward for the choir of Levites to sing it as it was written. So, a change was in order, and it came out thus: “The Lord (God) said to my Lord (David), sit at My right hand until I make of your enemies a footstool for your feet.” That’s the truth. I have chosen to tell you although I am sure you are not ready for any kind of truth, which goes against your preconceived notions.**

 

[Ben_Masada]

You are correct as far as you go. But your idea of Replacement Theology (the idea that the Catholic church canceled the covenant between God and the Jews and that the Jew can be the ONLY children of Isaac) is quite out there. No one has suggested that God broke his covenant with the Jews.

Paul did it. Try to read Galatians 4:21-31 without religious bias and you will understand what I mean.

It is easy for a Jew to deny God. Do you think that being Jewish means that your DNA prevents you from doing so? Look in the old testament to see how many times the Jews denied God.

We did a few times but we paid for them with exiles and being dominated by strangers in our own land. But we got back and God forgave us and accepted us back. The only people who never agreed with God are Gentiles who keep reminding us and God, so to speak, of our sins of thousands of years ago.

God sent his Son to fulfill the covenant. It was the Jews who denied Christ and in doing so denied God. They put Him on a cross and killed him. These are FACTS.

The only reference to a son of God in the Scriptures that Jesus used to handle is in Exodus 4:22,23. “Israel is My Son…” And the Jews did not put Jesus on the cross. You know very well that is a lying accusation that even the late Pope John 23rd asked publicly from the Jewish People to forgive Christianity for this false accusation and you persist to spread it.

Now is where you jump in with the idea that YOU alone can determine the meaning of scripture and tell us that only YOU can tell us what it means. You will tell us that Jesus could not have claimed divinity because he was a Jew, despite the fact that the old testament foretold His coming.

Assumptions! You speak of it as if Jesus was the only Jew crucified by the Romans. Read Josephus. The Romans crucified thousands of Jews.
If Jesus was Jewish, it is only obvious that anything un-Jewish about Jesus could not be true. A Jew cannot be divine. Therefore, Jesus was not divine. Regarding determining the meaning of Scriptures, who are more entitled to do this, the author or the reader? Obviously the author. We wrote the Bible that you read, except for the NT of course.

At this point you again claim that YOU alone can determine the meaning of scripture and that only YOU know what is correct and tell us that the old testament prophecies refer only to the nation of Israel and not to Jesus. Which is hogwash.

Hogwash for you who are moved by Christian preconceived notions. Not to us. And if I tell you that the prophecies refer to Israel, I prove to you with names. In your case, you have only assumptions.

It seems that YOU are the one who has no reason in all of this. It is YOU who deny God by denying Christ.

I deny the Greek Mythology the NT has developed about Jesus. This is the real denial of what Jesus really was.

Accept once and for all the Paul was another apostle and is not this big evil guy who “invented” Christianity. The dates for the earliest known copies of the gospels puts your claims to lie.

Prove it! You can’t prove anything you say. If I tell you that Paul invented Christianity, I have the evidence for you in Acts 11:26. What do you have to refute me? Only assumptions.

If you do not wish to follow God (Christ) then fine. Don’t. But who are you to spin your lies and muddy the water to confuse those whom God has called to His Church?

Drop Jesus as a Jewish man and I am out . If you persist mudding Judaism with Hellenistic innovations as if there is potential in Judaism for Greek Mythology, I’ll be around to fix the image of Judaism that you are distorting in the eyes of the world.